Capsaicin and TRPV1 Activation

[AnthroLats]

The topic of capsaicin has caught my interest lately and given its supposed vast amount of potential benefits (thermogenesis, protein synthesis, supposedly even hair growth...), but this all seems to hinge on the activation of TRPV1.

My question is, would consuming the same amount of capsaicin in a capsulated pill form provide the same benefits as if I were to eat it with food?

I don't feel quite as on fire all over the place (Except in the bathroom...) if I take a cap, but I can sweat bullets from hot food.

Any insight (As to this question, or even anything else relating to capsaicin) would be helpful, seems like a fascinating compound.

 

[HIT4ME]

This is interesting that you've said this. I've been experimenting with mixing my own bulk powders, and I've been taking LARGE doses of capsaicin. Up to 15 mg twice/day. Here and there I felt a little warmer, but no sweating, etc. I started to think my powder was not pure capsaicin. I weighed out about 5-7 mg (not easy to do) and let it dissolve on my tongue. I started tearing up, my tongue burned, my throat burned, etc. It wasn't incapacitating though...but very uncomfortable. My eyes were tearing up, and I then made the mistake of trying to wipe away a tear. That hurt. So, I'm not sure if my stuff is 100% real, but it has a lot of the properties I'd expect. My gf can't even be in the kitchen when I open the bag. 10-15 minutes later she is complaining about burning.

I'm not sure what the issue is to be honest - but if this stuff is real, even on my tongue it doesn't make me sweat like when I take it in food. I wonder why this is.

Do you take caps on an empty stomach? I've tried empty stomach, with milk, with food. I've found that if I don't eat enough while it is in my system, when it hits my intestings 4-5 hours later I get major cramps, but this is at 15 mg doses.

 

[henryv]

The topic of capsaicin has caught my interest lately and given its supposed vast amount of potential benefits (thermogenesis, protein synthesis, supposedly even hair growth...), but this all seems to hinge on the activation of TRPV1.

My question is, would consuming the same amount of capsaicin in a capsulated pill form provide the same benefits as if I were to eat it with food?

I don't feel quite as on fire all over the place (Except in the bathroom...) if I take a cap, but I can sweat bullets from hot food.

Any insight (As to this question, or even anything else relating to capsaicin) would be helpful, seems like a fascinating compound.

You might be better off with a nonpungent capsaicin analogue like stearoyl vanillylamide, to get the benefits of TRPV1 activation (i.e. increased energy expenditure, lipolysis, and oxidation of free fatty acids) without all the spiciness and irritation.

 

[AnthroLats]

I wouldn't mind dabbling in LipoMorph in the future, I'm trying out pretty much the cheapest alternatives at the moment. Presumably though, if capped stearoyl vanillylamide can activate TRPV1, a capped pill of capsaicin can do the same too, right?

I'm not too torn by the spiciness of things. It's actually kind of fun.

HIT4ME, I actually saw your thread about bulk powders and wondered how you managed to get pure capsaicin (I cheaped out, went with cayenne pepper 90k HU, no idea how much % is actually cap). I was under the impression that pure capsaicin can burn and blister skin (not sure how true this is), so I would have imagined 5mg would almost literally melt your tongue off.

Ive tried on empty and full stomach, gives a bit of discomfort but the worst is when I take it before bed. Combined with the 20% forskolin, I sometimes wake up with a tsunami of fire in the middle of the night.

Hernyv, I saw this study regarding TRPV1 and muscle hypertrophy through mTOR
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23584166
yet I never seem to see any companies pumping capsaicin as a "muscle builder" of any sort (Which I figured they'd be all over). Any particular reasons for this?

 

[RecompMan]

You might be better off with a nonpungent capsaicin analogue like stearoyl vanillylamide, to get the benefits of TRPV1 activation (i.e. increased energy expenditure, lipolysis, and oxidation of free fatty acids) without all the spiciness and irritation.

Capsiate is a viable option at 10mg a day

 

[henryv]

Capsiate is a viable option at 10mg a day

Capsinoids are a bit odd. They seem to work directly in the GI tract, and are destroyed before they reach the blood stream. They're also very expensive and the available extracts are very low-dosed. Ajinomoto have thrown a lot of money behind them though.

"Due to its chemical vulnerability, capsiate, when administered into the upper digestive tract, is rapidly degradated to vanillyl alcohol and (E)-8-methyl-6-nonenoic acid, two metabolites that are inactive to TRP channels, in the alimentary mucosa. This rapid metabolism makes capsiate undetectable in the circulation in the portal blood and brain tissue in rats and humans."

http://jap.physiology.org/content/110/3/789

 

[henryv]

Hernyv, I saw this study regarding TRPV1 and muscle hypertrophy through mTOR
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23584166
yet I never seem to see any companies pumping capsaicin as a "muscle builder" of any sort (Which I figured they'd be all over). Any particular reasons for this?

Yeah I've seen that one before. See also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24644244

 

[Rocket3015]

Interesting.................

 

[RecompMan]

Capsinoids are a bit odd. They seem to work directly in the GI tract, and are destroyed before they reach the blood stream. They're also very expensive and the available extracts are very low-dosed. Ajinomoto have thrown a lot of money behind them though. http://jap.physiology.org/content/110/3/789

I have a good study on oral consumption

Top secret nutrition uses a dihydrocapsiate

 

[henryv]

I have a good study on oral consumption

Top secret nutrition uses a dihydrocapsiate

Capsiate, dihydrocapsiate, and nordihydrocapsiate (the capsinoids) are all extracted from CH-19 Sweet, a patented nonpungent (non-spicy) variety of chilli pepper. Top Secret Nutrition uses CapsiAtra, distributed by Glanbia, but from Ajinomoto, who are the patent holders. Like I said, Ajinomoto have thrown a lot of money behind the capsinoids - including (I think) sponsoring the study you mention.

I'm not sure that the capsiates offer any advantages over other nonpungent capsaicin analogues (like stearoyl vanillylamide), other than having more studies behind them (almost all bankrolled by Ajinomoto).

 

[RecompMan]

Capsiate, dihydrocapsiate, and nordihydrocapsiate (the capsinoids) are all extracted from CH-19 Sweet, a patented nonpungent (non-spicy) variety of chilli pepper. Top Secret Nutrition uses CapsiAtra, distributed by Glanbia, but from Ajinomoto, who are the patent holders. Like I said, Ajinomoto have thrown a lot of money behind the capsinoids - including (I think) sponsoring the study you mention. I'm not sure that the capsiates offer any advantages over other nonpungent capsaicin analogues (like stearoyl vanillylamide), other than having more studies behind them (almost all bankrolled by Ajinomoto).

Aav2 uses capsaicinoids (Capsiacin, dihydrocapsiacin, and nordihydrocapsiacin)

Works extremely well

Capsimax is decent I like high dose capsaicinoids for weight loss it works so incredibly well

 

[alexoc949]

This is interesting that you've said this. I've been experimenting with mixing my own bulk powders, and I've been taking LARGE doses of capsaicin. Up to 15 mg twice/day. Here and there I felt a little warmer, but no sweating, etc. I started to think my powder was not pure capsaicin. I weighed out about 5-7 mg (not easy to do) and let it dissolve on my tongue. I started tearing up, my tongue burned, my throat burned, etc. It wasn't incapacitating though...but very uncomfortable. My eyes were tearing up, and I then made the mistake of trying to wipe away a tear. That hurt. So, I'm not sure if my stuff is 100% real, but it has a lot of the properties I'd expect. My gf can't even be in the kitchen when I open the bag. 10-15 minutes later she is complaining about burning.

I'm not sure what the issue is to be honest - but if this stuff is real, even on my tongue it doesn't make me sweat like when I take it in food. I wonder why this is.

Do you take caps on an empty stomach? I've tried empty stomach, with milk, with food. I've found that if I don't eat enough while it is in my system, when it hits my intestings 4-5 hours later I get major cramps, but this is at 15 mg doses.

How much is 15mg in terms of fractions of a teaspoon? I take 96hu 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon 3 times a day

 

[HIT4ME]

How much is 15mg in terms of fractions of a teaspoon? I take 96hu 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon 3 times a day

haha - you can't measure mg in those terms. We are talking like, 1/100th of a teaspoon maybe? But that is a wild guess...maybe 1/500th? 1/1000th?

 

[alexoc949]

haha - you can't measure mg in those terms. We are talking like, 1/100th of a teaspoon maybe? But that is a wild guess...maybe 1/500th? 1/1000th?

Oh, we must be taking different stuff, didnt realize. I take cayenne pepper powder 96hu...

 

[HIT4ME]

Oh, we must be taking different stuff, didnt realize. I take cayenne pepper powder 96hu...

Yes, this is capsaicin, which is the active chemical in the cayenne, straight up. I figured you were taking cayenne. That may actually have some benefit over the capsaicin I believe....

 

[Jakethaniel]

I have been adding Cayenne pepper to my coffee and protein shakes the past few days since I saw this, do you think that this is near enough capsaicin to give the benefit protein synthesis?

Side note, if you like spicy stuff it is actually kinda good in coffee and chocolate protein shakes, so something I might keep doing even if it does not provide enough capsaicin.

 

[ELROCK]

I have been adding Cayenne pepper to my coffee and protein shakes the past few days since I saw this, do you think that this is near enough capsaicin to give the benefit protein synthesis?

Side note, if you like spicy stuff it is actually kinda good in coffee and chocolate protein shakes, so something I might keep doing even if it does note provide enough capsaicin.

I love spicy foods, but adding cayenne pepper to coffee sounds awful bro!

 

[drinkyboy]

X2 for awful lol. I couldn't do it

 

[Jakethaniel]

I love spicy foods, but adding cayenne pepper to coffee sounds awful bro!

X2 for awful lol. I couldn't do it

Haha Give it a try. I am not saying it is delicious, just that it is kinda good as something different. Add just a few dashes it the bottom of your mug so the coffee goes over it then stir it. It does not all mix in, but not bad.

 

[Philosophy]

Aav2 uses capsaicinoids (Capsiacin, dihydrocapsiacin, and nordihydrocapsiacin)

Works extremely well

Capsimax is decent I like high dose capsaicinoids for weight loss it works so incredibly well

Any thoughts/experiences with NOW Cayenne Pepper? According to http://www.ijppsjournal.com/Vol5Issue1/6207.pdf, the fruit they use had the highest % of capsaicin at 2%. Even if it is at 1%, that equates to 5mg per capsule which isn't bad. I'm not sure if the 40,000 HU means much.

Shred Jym offers 50mg capsimax per dose. Or I could try Ripped Freak.

Thanks plenty!

 

[RecompMan]

Any thoughts/experiences with NOW Cayenne Pepper? According to http://www.ijppsjournal.com/Vol5Issue1/6207.pdf, the fruit they use had the highest % of capsaicin at 2%. Even if it is at 1%, that equates to 5mg per capsule which isn't bad. I'm not sure if the 40,000 HU means much. Shred Jym offers 50mg capsimax per dose. Or I could try Ripped Freak. Thanks plenty!

No way is it 50mg capsaicin

Capsimax is a 2% beaded extract

You'll want to try and hit 10-15mg capsaicin in a day for enhanced affects on weight and digestion

That equates to 500mg of a 2% capsimax