anyone used either of these products at 10-15 gms per day dose for a significant amount of time ? supposed to be quite good at releasing gh and has tremendous natural gh releasing potential . any info is appreciated , thanx .
I've read conflicting reports. I read somewhere that better results were seen from the ornithine. I'll see if I can dig up the link.
I bought some arg/orth caps and took them throughout the day but I never reached the 10-15g amount I'm sure.
What would you notice if it did significantly spike GH levels - how could you tell?
I'd like to hear some more feedback on this.
yes ornithine is supposed to be twice as effective at raising gh levels , i found this info here :
basically , this is what is written "10 Grams of oral 1 Hour (1.5 Hours for capsules) produces GH release sufficient for fat burning and muscle growth when coupled with peak output exercise. (Individuals over 200 lbs probably need 12 Grams of Arginine.) "
"Ornithine is twice as effective as Arginine in causing GH release. "
So its saying you would take it preworkout?
That site doesn't quote any studies.
yeah no studies , but it did interest me . yeah pre workout or during the workout , it might help with the gh spike ?? i'm just throwin ideas in the air here , lol , 90 bucks or so for 1000 gms arginine man , compared to 350 odd bucks for a gh kit . he he .
My biochemistry is a bit rusty on this one (can't remember which group of aminos they both belong to), but basically, don't take them together.
Arginine and Ornithine will compete for uptake - there's only a certain amount can get past the blood/brain barrier - ornithine is twice as effective as arginine.
About 15 years ago (right before the tryptophan scare) I was using an amino stack which included ornithine, tryptophan, glycine and I think the last was tyrosine. Tryptophan at night together with the ornithine definitely had an effect.
Try doing a search on Arginine pyroglutamate - a dusty memory keeps bringing this to mind as far as GH release is concerned (glutamine is also effective for this)
In a 1995 study by Thomas C. Welbourne of Louisiana State University College of Medicine in Shreveport L-Glutamine proved to be an exceptional HGH releaser. Dr. Welbourne showed that a surprising small oral dose two grams of glutamine raised growth hormone levels more than four times, compared with subjects given a placebo. Even more exciting, age did not diminish the response, at least in this study of volunteers ranging from 32 to 64 years of age.http://www.csmngt.com/HGH%20Reports.htmMany nutrients have been shown to increase growth hormone in both young and old subjects. The amino acids Arginine and Ornithine have been used for a number of years to enhance production of growth hormone since they were first popularized by Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw in their book, " Life Extension: A Practical Scientific Approach".
Sounds good(coming from the mfg of a GH supplement), but here is the final word
Here's anotherUse of amino acids as growth hormone-releasing agents by athletes.
Chromiak JA, Antonio J.
Department of Health, Physical Education, Recreation and Sport, Mississippi State University, PO Box 6186, Mississippi State, MS 39762-6186, USA. email@example.com
Specific amino acids, such as arginine, lysine and ornithine, can stimulate growth hormone (GH) release when infused intravenously or administered orally. Many individuals consume amino acids before strength training workouts, believing this practice accentuates the exercise-induced GH release, thereby promoting greater gains in muscle mass and strength. The GH response to amino acid administration has a high degree of interindividual variability and may be altered by training status, sex, age, and diet. Although parenteral administration consistently leads to increased circulating GH concentration, oral doses that are great enough to induce significant GH release are likely to cause stomach discomfort and diarrhea. During exercise, intensity is a major determinant of GH release. Although one study showed that arginine infusion can heighten the GH response to exercise, no studies found that pre-exercise oral amino acid supplementation augments GH release. Further, no appropriately conducted scientific studies found that oral supplementation with amino acids, which are capable of inducing GH release, before strength training increases muscle mass and strength to a greater extent than strength training alone. The use of specific amino acids to stimulate GH release by athletes is not recommended.
Failure of commercial oral amino acid supplements to increase serum growth hormone concentrations in male body-builders.
Lambert MI, Hefer JA, Millar RP, Macfarlane PW.
Dept. of Physiology, University of Cape Town Medical School, South Africa.
Amino acids are commonly ingested as ergogenic acids in the belief that they enhance protein synthesis and stimulate growth hormone release. The aim of this study was to determine the acute effect that amino acid supplements have on serum growth hormone (GH) concentration. Seven male body-builders reported to the laboratory on four occasions after an 8-hr fast and ingested, in random order, either a placebo, a 2.4-g arginine/lysine supplement, a 1.85-g ornithine/tyrosine supplement, or a 20-g BovrilR drink. Blood was collected before each treatment and again every 30 minutes for 3 hours for the measurement of serum GH concentration. On a separate occasion, subjects had an intravenous infusion of 0.5 microgram GH-releasing hormone.kg-1 body weight to confirm that GH secretory response was normal. The main finding was that serum GH concentrations were not altered consistently in healthy young males following the ingestion of the amino acid supplements in the quantities recommended by the manufacturers.
lol , now i gotta cough up 350 bucks for a eurotech kit , damn u guys lol .
that or you can make some injectable aminos
I take a gram of arginine before sleep and after i wake up...best results.
ornithine/ arginine is supposed to be taken 3 hrs after food pogue(similar to gh administration on an empty stomach) , so maybe the studies u posted might not tell us the whole truth about arginine or ornithine becos thier effects are supposed to be best on an empty stomach .
but i guess nothing can replace the real thing eh ?
doubtful, but who knows... they also said that it didn't help release GH in the "manufacturer's recommended dosages"Originally posted by raybravo
but i guess nothing can replace the real thing eh ?
They did say it would work, but it would probably cause upset stomach if you took it in such a high dose. Maybe if you took it throughout the day in small doses or something.
I doubt you'll find any feedback from people saying that it releases GH, since its so hard to say whether or not it does. And even so, I doubt that it will increase it much more than a few mcgs, not in the amount that you would use with extrogenous GH administration. I saw a lot of studies that had to do with GH administration including glutamine. Also the antihistamine Periactin was mentioend to help GH reuptake. Just something to chew on for awhile.
yeah i even asked insynct999 , the mod at mesomorph and animal's , he said screw this , he said tastes disgusting and i shud go for the real thing .