St.Johns Wort

[T-Bone]

I used to take this everyday. Then I read a warning on the package of a certain brand that said it inhibits the products of the enzyme cytocrome p450?. That it could stop the absorbtion of certain drugs and supplements...Anyone know anything about this?. I'd really like to get back on the stuff. I really liked it.

[chuckymiller]

If I recall correctly, St John's Wort (or more accurately, some components of St John's Wort) are substrates for the Pregnane X-receptor (also called PXR). Apparently, hitting this receptor with agonist activity, as does St Johns wort, can induce the Cyp 3A4 metabolizing enzyme, which is an enzyme involved in the metabolism of like 50% or more of drugs. Thus, it is true that St John's Wort can increase metabolism of other drugs. This has been particulalrly warned about with oral contraceptive use and certain anti-HIV drugs, though it is likely it would affect many other drugs as well. St Johns wort also can sensitize the user to sunlight and excess exposure to the sun should be avoided while taking this drug. Although the mechanism of St John's wort is not completely clear, some warn against using with other antidepressants such as SSRIs (Prozac, paxil, zoloft, etc) and others since apparently one can see enhanced activity of the drugs due to the possibility of St Johns wort inhibiting the MAO enzymes which are responsible for metabolism of the SSRIs. If they are combined, clearly one should use less than a full dose of each, at least initially. Despite the forgoing, St Johns wort is one of the better established herbal remedies having demonstrated considerable efficacy in numerous clinical trials. It appears that St Johns wort at 900 mg of 0.3% hypericin standarized is the equal of most prescription SSRIs, possibly with reduced side effects. SSRIs are notoriously well known for sexual side effects, among other things. If one does not have drug interactions to worry about, then St Johns wort appears to be a pretty good product, it is very popular in Europe, particularly in Germany. I have used it on and off and like you, liked it quite a bit! Good luck!

[T-Bone]

If I recall correctly, St John's Wort (or more accurately, some components of St John's Wort) are substrates for the Pregnane X-receptor (also called PXR). Apparently, hitting this receptor with agonist activity, as does St Johns wort, can induce the Cyp 3A4 metabolizing enzyme, which is an enzyme involved in the metabolism of like 50% or more of drugs. Thus, it is true that St John's Wort can increase metabolism of other drugs. This has been particulalrly warned about with oral contraceptive use and certain anti-HIV drugs, though it is likely it would affect many other drugs as well. St Johns wort also can sensitize the user to sunlight and excess exposure to the sun should be avoided while taking this drug. Although the mechanism of St John's wort is nov completely clear, some warn against using with other antidepressants such as SSRIs (Prozac, paxil, zoloft, etc) and others since apparently one can see enhanced activity of the drugs due to the possibility of St Johns wort inhibiting the MAO enzymes which are responsible for metabolism of the SSRIs. If they are combined, clearly one should use less than a full dose of each, at least initially. Despite the forgoing, St Johns wort is one of the better established herbal remedies having demonstrated considerable efficacy in numerous clinical trials. It appears that St Johns wort at 900 mg of 0.3% hypericin standarized is the equal of most prescription SSRIs, possibly with reduced side effects. SSRIs are notoriously well known for sexual side effects, among other things. If one does not have drug interactions to worry about, then St Johns wort appears to be a pretty good product, it is very popular in Europe, particularly in Germany. I have used it on and off and like you, liked it quite a bit! Good luck!

Actually I thought it could decrease the effectiveness of other drugs/supplements. Here is the warning on the Kira brand of St.Johns Wort


St. Johns Wort may affect cytochrome P-450 enzyme activity within the body.

* Cytochrome P-450 is a normal metabolic pathway that is affect by many drug products.

* Recent data suggest that St.Johns Wort may alter the effectiveness of certain drug products based upon the inducement of cytochrome P-450 activity.

* Many foods and other products also affect cytochrome P-450 and may limit the effectiveness of certain drug products in a manner similar or identical to St.Johns Wort. Such products include: grapfruit juice, cruciferous vegetables, charcoal grilled beef, cigarettes, and alcohol.

* St Johns Wort is believed to interact with drug products including but not necessarily limited to : warfarin sodium, cyclosprine, theophylline, oral contraceptives, carbamazepine, amitriptyline hydrochloride, phenprocoumon, indinavir, HIV/AIDS medicines and digoxin. Also, concomitant use of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors(i.e. SSRIs such as fluxetine hydrochloride and sertraline hydrochloride)and St.Johns Wort products should be avoided, particulary in elderly patients. Consult your health care professional.



See why I am concerned?.

[chuckymiller]

T-Bone, I think we are saying the same thing. By inducing Cyp-3A4, the other drugs lose effectiveness because there metabolism is increased. Increasing Cyp-3A4 increases the rate that drugs which are metabolized by Cyp-3A4, are broken down. Thus, the amount of active drug is decreased as it is increasingly metabolized (assuming the metabolites are not even more active!). Thus, it would interfere with the effectiveness of those drugs, though not through the inhibition of Cyp-3A4 but rather through its induction (activation). Accordingly, it is not surprising that drugs which are known inhibitors of the cytochrome metabolizing enzymes (Cyps) often increase the potency of concurrently used drugs, which also can be a problem.

[T-Bone]

I just read that AMORYN is the best brand. Anyone know where I can find it?. I found it from the manufacturer but thats extremely expensive.

[chuckymiller]

Hey T-Bone,

I bought Amoryn from the Amoryn site...when you buy 12 bottles at one time, it really isn't that expensive compared to store price. 12 bottles is like 190 bucks (16 bucks per month), which is enough for full dosing for a whole year (you only need two per day of Amoryn for full dose). I have found the Amoryn to be the best St John's wort I have taken. They standardize to 5% hyperforin which appears from recent studies to actually be the active ingredient. If you go to the drug store, or kmart, or whatever, you take your chances....I have had bottles that did nada. The Amoryn brand also contains other ingredients like serotonin which should further enhance its effectiveness. The combination of Amoryn and good workouts has kept my mood quite pleasant. Good luck with it if you try it!

[T-Bone]

Hey T-Bone,

I bought Amoryn from the Amoryn site...when you buy 12 bottles at one time, it really isn't that expensive compared to store price. 12 bottles is like 190 bucks (16 bucks per month), which is enough for full dosing for a whole year (you only need two per day of Amoryn for full dose). I have found the Amoryn to be the best St John's wort I have taken. They standardize to 5% hyperforin which appears from recent studies to actually be the active ingredient. If you go to the drug store, or kmart, or whatever, you take your chances....I have had bottles that did nada. The Amoryn brand also contains other ingredients like serotonin which should further enhance its effectiveness. The combination of Amoryn and good workouts has kept my mood quite pleasant. Good luck with it if you try it!

I've decide to stick with KIRA. 5htp can raise cortisol levels anyway.

[T-Bone]

I'm taking 1600mg every day... is this going to have an effect on gains?

Thats way too much!

[chuckymiller]

I think Kira needs to be taken 3 capsules per day for full dose. I see online it is about 10 bucks for a bottle of 45. 45 divided by three means one bottle of 45 would last 15 days, thus requiring 2 bottles per month. 2 bottles times approximately 9 or 10 bucks is 18 to 20 dollars per month. As per my calculation, Amoryn is cheaper...unless your source is much cheaper than the price I put here. Anyway, to each their own...good luck!

[abuleh]

St Johns Wort should be added to any recipe that causes anxiety or where stress or anxiety are high at that time in the individual's life. It also seems to have an anti-estrogen effect so you can reduce your use of isoflavones etc. It is also thought to reduce prolactin which causes excess DHT production.This herb reduces anxiety and can negate negative side effects of many herbs plus ease the stresses of a hectic life. Anxiety is thought to intensify pain and lower testosterone levels. Very safe and cost effective if purchased in bulk. Dose at about 2500 mg per day more or less. You don't need to micro manage this herb. 1/2 level teaspoon of dry raw powder weighs about 700 mg and 2 to 3 doses per day of 1/2 tsp is usually ok. I personally believe that it increases the testicular size and testosterone output ever so slightly. Perhaps because it stimulates serotonin production.