anti catabolic supps while cutting

[BryanM]

well im planning a cutter with SD at 10mg 2on 2off 2on and MOHN at 32mg throughout for the 6 weeks but that wont be until april or may I like to keep a good amount of time off between cycles.


Anyway that will be an aggressive cut Im at 188-190 pounds at 15-16% BF I will be taking and eca alternative like xenadrine(reason being is Ephedrine wreaks havoc on the prostate) But that will be with the anabolics to prevent the muscle loss.

My goal is 8-9%BF if possible So im assuming around 15 pounds to loose
Ive cut before at 65%max hrt rate and lost about 2-3 pounds ew so taking this into consideration i think I can loose the weight while on the cycle.


Now im really concerned about lossing LBM from hear until there.
I am looking for suggestions on what to take while I try to cut about 5 or so pounds of fat from now until april or may.

I know HMB doesnt pan out for muscle mass gains but I ordered some anyway to give it a shot in hopes on maybe some slight anti catabolic effects I got it for 10 bucks so I figured why not.

I am also going to give rhodiola a shot because I have heard from a few that its adaptagen qualities help with recovery so maybe another sign that it is slightly anticatabolic.

I will also be useing CEE (not to sure if it is anti-catabolic or not) But it gives me a decent pump and its only 6 bucks.

Would ALCAR help with muscle preservation at all?

what else increases protein synthesis?

Anything else that would help perserve muscle im all ears(suppliment wise I know protein is best.)

 

[Lean One]

I'll probably get flamed for suggesting this, but I like Biotest Methoxy 7 just for this purpous. It's a highly underated supplement.A great nutrient partitioner. It will stack well with CEE too. I always use a cocktail like that when I want to take a long break from androgens.

 

[Odessa14]

ALCAR will help you lose the weight and keep alert...I doubt it will preserve muscle in any extreme circumstance...

That being said, I would have to say Lean Extreme migh be good in your situation...Def look into that...

I would also wonder if you should wait on the CEE until after the cycle is done...use it during PCT and after...

Like you said, protein is best, but you obviosuly know that...I think youll love the M4OHN for your cutting cycle...the CNS stim is sooooo nice in a situation like yours....with that in mind I would tell you to watch it on any other stims...you might be able to "take it" but I would just say watch the blood pressure, just to be safe...

Good Luck

O14

 

[sirpsycho]

Try Cytodyne's Cytodyne, it has ingredients that many say help the body increase protein synthesis and fat metabolism, decrease protein breakdown and decrease cortisol production.

It contains :

Acetyl L Canitine 1100mg.​

Phosphatidylserine 175mg.​

L-Alanine 200mg.​

Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid 150mg.​

L-Glutamine 2150mg.​

Taurine 1050mg.​

Ketoisocaproate 50mg.​

Inositol 50mg.​

It is a little pricey, but it may be worth a shot.

 

[doggzj]

Try Cytodyne's Cytodyne, it has ingredients that many say help the body increase protein synthesis and fat metabolism, decrease protein breakdown and decrease cortisol production.

It contains :

Acetyl L Canitine 1100mg.​

Phosphatidylserine 175mg.​

L-Alanine 200mg.​

Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid 150mg.​

L-Glutamine 2150mg.​

Taurine 1050mg.​

Ketoisocaproate 50mg.​

Inositol 50mg.​

It is a little pricey, but it may be worth a shot.

It isn't a bad product for indrediant profile, it is just extremely underdosed. I second the LXT simply for anti catabolic purposes. I like Ephedrine also, as it is an incredible partitioner, but too each his own.

 

[Odessa14]

It isn't a bad product for indrediant profile, it is just extremely underdosed.

I agree...you can buy most of what works in that product in bulk for much less and get much more...

 

[sirpsycho]

It isn't a bad product for indrediant profile, it is just extremely underdosed. I second the LXT simply for anti catabolic purposes. I like Ephedrine also, as it is an incredible partitioner, but too each his own.

I agree that the ingredient profile is good, but what would everyone suggest in terms of amounts for this product by itself (double it? triple it?) or it's individual ingredients bought by bulk, would you double, triple, quad?:think:

Also, are there any items you find as useless in this product, so that if we buy the ingredients in bulk we could omit some to save some money?

 

[Iron Warrior]

transdermal 7-keto is also very good

 

[Enigma76]

I hate having to plug for a company, but from the research that USPlabs provided it would seem that their cAMPHIBOLIC product would do well here for you.

If the whole thing about raising test levels really pans out, it would help keep the muscle you have as well as helping to lose weight.

If you havent, give it some time and read their articles. I'm seriously considering this for my up-and-coming cut as an adjunct to E/C. My next cut I think will be EC, cAMP, sesathin and maybe LX.

 

[glenihan]

test is pretty anti-catabolic heheheh

 

[JonesersRX7]

I'm seriously considering this for my up-and-coming cut as an adjunct to E/C. My next cut I think will be EC, cAMP, sesathin and maybe LX.

Sorry for being a nOOb but what's EC? cAMP is what you just listed, Sesathin is from Avant and Lean Xtreme is from Designer Sups. Couldn't find what EC is tho.

Thanks!

- Jonesie

 

[doggzj]

Sorry for being a nOOb but what's EC? cAMP is what you just listed, Sesathin is from Avant and Lean Xtreme is from Designer Sups. Couldn't find what EC is tho.

Thanks!

- Jonesie

Ephedrine/Caffine stack

 

[doggzj]

I agree that the ingredient profile is good, but what would everyone suggest in terms of amounts for this product by itself (double it? triple it?) or it's individual ingredients bought by bulk, would you double, triple, quad?:think:

Also, are there any items you find as useless in this product, so that if we buy the ingredients in bulk we could omit some to save some money?

I don't know the ammounts just off the top of my head, but I believe a lot of these compounds have threads over at Avant discussing them, probably even 1fast has some information. Most of these, at least the ones you can find at 1fast and BAC will probably have a good discription (sans reviews) with them.

You could quad everything in there and still not pay as much (just a guess )

I can tell you leave the glutamine out, which I'm for sure of.

 

[BryanM]

thanks guys

Glutamine actually works if taken pre cardio session.........slightly anyway

 

[JonesersRX7]

Ephedrine/Caffine stack

Anyone have recommendations on an ECA stack?

Xenadrine
Hydroxycut
Stacker 2?

- Jonesie

 

[Lean One]

Anyone have recommendations on an ECA stack?

Xenadrine
Hydroxycut
Stacker 2?

- Jonesie

Don't fall for that crap if it's sold OTC now. If you want the real deal you have to get the E and C seprately.

 

[OmarJackson]

as tried and true ECA is. the new line of "next-gen" thermos look pretty good.

redline (the RTD is awesome BTW)
tight
hot-rox
scorch
HEAT
etc....

 

[Twin Peak]

what else increases protein synthesis?

Interesting question, since Par Deus was just showing me a formula for a product that is specifically designed for increasing protein synthesis. This is an overlooked avenue, IMO.

Otherwise, anything that bumps leptin (or leptin signalling or leptin sensitivity -- a la the LeptiGen family) or anything that is a solid nutrient partitioner (thus trafficking the nutrients to the muscle) will spare muscle (think ephedrine, HEAT Stack, etc.).

 

[Twin Peak]

Oh, and BCAAs will certainly be muscle sparing.

 

[murphman]

Bump on the Lean Extreme. I also like Glucophase by DS.

 

[OmarJackson]

Otherwise, anything that bumps leptin (or leptin signalling or leptin sensitivity

what about nicotine's effect on leptin, signalling, sensitivity, etc....

 

[Nate Dawg]

test is pretty anti-catabolic heheheh

I think glenihan has the right idea here:thumbsup:

But seriously, I would say the lean xtreme, it will help with the cortisol levels, maybe try some gxr too.

 

[str8flexed]

well im planning a cutter with SD at 10mg 2on 2off 2on and MOHN at 32mg throughout for the 6 weeks but that wont be until april or may I like to keep a good amount of time off between cycles.


Anyway that will be an aggressive cut Im at 188-190 pounds at 15-16% BF I will be taking and eca alternative like xenadrine(reason being is Ephedrine wreaks havoc on the prostate) But that will be with the anabolics to prevent the muscle loss.

My goal is 8-9%BF if possible So im assuming around 15 pounds to loose
Ive cut before at 65%max hrt rate and lost about 2-3 pounds ew so taking this into consideration i think I can loose the weight while on the cycle.


Now im really concerned about lossing LBM from hear until there.
I am looking for suggestions on what to take while I try to cut about 5 or so pounds of fat from now until april or may.

I know HMB doesnt pan out for muscle mass gains but I ordered some anyway to give it a shot in hopes on maybe some slight anti catabolic effects I got it for 10 bucks so I figured why not.

I am also going to give rhodiola a shot because I have heard from a few that its adaptagen qualities help with recovery so maybe another sign that it is slightly anticatabolic.

I will also be useing CEE (not to sure if it is anti-catabolic or not) But it gives me a decent pump and its only 6 bucks.

Would ALCAR help with muscle preservation at all?

what else increases protein synthesis?

Anything else that would help perserve muscle im all ears(suppliment wise I know protein is best.)

HMB, EGCG extract (from green tea), and a hefty dose of EPA (from fish oil) will be your best bets as they are fairly good proteasome inhibitors and the proteasome is responsible for the degradation of myofibrillar proteins

 

[JonesersRX7]

HMB ?

You really think HMB? Curious as to why. Everything I have read says its crap but I saw your background info in members pics so I won't say any thing more..

Definately curious as to what you have to say for it.

- Jonesie

 

[str8flexed]

You really think HMB? Curious as to why. Everything I have read says its crap but I saw your background info in members pics so I won't say any thing more..

Definately curious as to what you have to say for it.

- Jonesie

because it is a damned good proteasome inhibitor; and the proteasome is the primary unit responsible for the degradation of muscle proteins.

-Layne

 

[x_muscle]

Best supps to preserve muscle while cutting are supps that will raise testosterone, and supress cortsol, since dieting lower testosterone.

try bulknutrition metacort which is combination of 6-oxo and 7-keto dhea, and stack it with Phosphatidyl Serine. or you can try novadex from kilosports stacked with DHEA.

and i agree with what other said green tea extract is great for cutting.

 

[Grant]

I like 7-oh, HEAT, BCAA's, Creatine (CEX or CEE) High Protien Intake, and Cytodyne Cytodyne (got it for free, 3 bottles!!!). I also like to use GXR alot for nutrient partitioning.

Also, look into Avants leptigen line of products.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Now im really concerned about lossing LBM from hear until there.
I am looking for suggestions on what to take while I try to cut about 5 or so pounds of fat from now until april or may.

If your diet is right, you really don't have anything to worry about in the first 4-6 weeks.

I don't think you need to spend the extra money.

 

[BryanM]

Very true but My diet is only "decent" to say the best

Im trying not to deplete carbs too much

Im trying to follow this but i havent been to keen about it I have been cutting for a week and a half and have yet to loose the usual 2 pounds of fat ew that I normally do but I just started taking CEE so I think this has put about 2-3 pounds on me probably water.

I am thinking of starting a thermogenic to speed things up I have some xenadrine laying around but I think it expired about 6 months ago still potent or no?

I am also gonna give 7OH a shot.
so HMB/Glutamine/CEE/Rhodiola/Thermogenic is gonna be my stack to cut with.

Meal 1:
Lean Protein, 1/2 cup oatmeal

Meal 2:
Protein shake/Lean Protein (2 tbsp flax

Meal 3:
Veggies, Lean Protein

Workout

Meal 4:
PWO Nutrition

Meal 5:
Veggies, Lean Protein, 1/2 cup rice or oatmeal.

Meal 6:
Shake with Flax

 

[Grant]

The expired stuff should work fine, I have used plenty of expired supps, even protien and have had no problems.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Very true but My diet is only "decent" to say the best

Im trying not to deplete carbs too much

Im trying to follow this but i havent been to keen about it I have been cutting for a week and a half and have yet to loose the usual 2 pounds of fat ew that I normally do but I just started taking CEE so I think this has put about 2-3 pounds on me probably water.

I am thinking of starting a thermogenic to speed things up I have some xenadrine laying around but I think it expired about 6 months ago still potent or no?

You are going about this the completely wrong way. Instead of fixing the problem you think that a supplement is going to speed things up. Its not. Until you fix your diet you will be frustrated in the long run. From the look of it right now, its not even close to what it should be.

If you don't have the discipline to follow or fix the diet, you mine as well not even try right now. You are just going to waste money on supplements that are not going to help you.

 

[str8flexed]

You are going about this the completely wrong way. Instead of fixing the problem you think that a supplement is going to speed things up. Its not. Until you fix your diet you will be frustrated in the long run. From the look of it right now, its not even close to what it should be.

If you don't have the discipline to follow or fix the diet, you mine as well not even try right now. You are just going to waste money on supplements that are not going to help you.

yea let me reiterate what he said.

As far as effects go

Diet= cannon
supplement = BB gun

 

[BryanM]

You are going about this the completely wrong way. Instead of fixing the problem you think that a supplement is going to speed things up. Its not. Until you fix your diet you will be frustrated in the long run. From the look of it right now, its not even close to what it should be.

If you don't have the discipline to follow or fix the diet, you mine as well not even try right now. You are just going to waste money on supplements that are not going to help you.

Really???

I figured my diet was decent its
meal 1 Pro/Carb
Meal 2 Pro/ Fat
meal 3 Pro/carb
meal 4 pwo
meal 5 Pro/carb
meal 6 Pro/fat

The macro nutrients work out to be around 300G PROTEIN/130G CARBS/50G FAT

I have followed this diet before and dropped my usual 2 pounds of fat per week with 60mins of cardio at 65-70% max hrt rate!

I know I have to be following this to a tee for a great deal of fat loss but the first week i was cheating way too much
I am just at a higher BF now im at 15% so I think its not taking effect just yet.


BOBO A little nudge in the right direction would be appreciated! Im not asking for a whole diet but just the basis of how many of my meals should should be pro/fat and how many should be pro/carb?

 

[JonesersRX7]

..... I know I have to be following this to a tee for a great deal of fat loss but the first week i was cheating way too much
I am just at a higher BF now im at 15% so I think its not taking effect just yet. .....

I took it as he was saying since you already stated you haven't followed your outline diet.... cheated like you just stated.

- Jonesie

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Really???

I figured my diet was decent its
meal 1 Pro/Carb
Meal 2 Pro/ Fat
meal 3 Pro/carb
meal 4 pwo
meal 5 Pro/carb
meal 6 Pro/fat

The macro nutrients work out to be around 300G PROTEIN/130G CARBS/50G FAT

I have followed this diet before and dropped my usual 2 pounds of fat per week with 60mins of cardio at 65-70% max hrt rate!

I know I have to be following this to a tee for a great deal of fat loss but the first week i was cheating way too much
I am just at a higher BF now im at 15% so I think its not taking effect just yet.


BOBO A little nudge in the right direction would be appreciated! Im not asking for a whole diet but just the basis of how many of my meals should should be pro/fat and how many should be pro/carb?

You're calories are very low unless you weigh 150lbs.

Carbs are too low and sounds like there isn't enough whole food.

You basically have the macro profile of a diet late in its stages, not the beginning.

Not to mention you don't even indicate that you gradually drop calories.

 

[BryanM]

Thanks!!!

Ill look into these and adjust accordingly