Filler for capping your own powders?
- 02-11-2005, 03:24 PM
- 02-11-2005, 04:03 PM
What are you trying to cap I stay away from fillers personally to try and keep the number of pills down.
But if you need like 25mg then Why not just go with dextrose or something cheap
- 02-11-2005, 04:06 PM
Yeah, it's small.. like 10mg small.
I'd rather not injest something sugary even though 300 or so mg won't likely make much of a difference.
Any other ideas?
02-11-2005, 04:28 PM
I use maltodrexin. I have 200 pounds of it so it is always available. Protein powderis another option.
02-11-2005, 04:31 PM
Ahh yes. Never thought of protein powder.Originally Posted by lozgod
Just so happens I have 10,000lbs sitting here so I could definitely use that
02-11-2005, 07:07 PM
02-11-2005, 07:20 PM
this is off topic, but i recently capped a bunch of tamoxifen citrate liquid, it was a bad idea, it ate through the cap overnight.
02-11-2005, 08:12 PM
You only cap a liquid if you are going to use it immediately. But I guess you know that now.Originally Posted by OmarJackson
02-11-2005, 08:23 PM
i think you would be able to cap anything suspended in water and it should hold. thing is, tomaxifen is suspended in everclear.Originally Posted by lozgod
02-11-2005, 08:25 PM
02-11-2005, 09:09 PM
actually, oil is about the only liquid even remotely safe to cap ahead of time...and I'd be reluctant to try it. I cap liquids when it's time to take 'em & not before.Originally Posted by OmarJackson
houseman - 10mg is too small to fill+cap, IMO; try a suspension (EVOO is the old reliable)?
02-14-2005, 08:18 AM
Why do you say 10mg is too small to fill and then cap?Originally Posted by BodyWizard
Actualy, this is my first time capping stuff. Perhaps I better stick to things like ALCAR first and then go to things that are smaller?
02-14-2005, 09:29 AM
just that 10mg is really an extremely small quantity to try to work with, especially @ capping volumes (both contents & # of caps); you'll need a very accurate scale, you'll be working w/ densities, not just volume, and with such minute amounts your margin for error will be razor-thin.
ESPECIALLY if you have no experience w/ capping, you should look for an alternate means of achieving your desired dosage, and give yourself some capping practice w/ some bulk powders (buy a good scale, too (you could do much worse than www.oldwillknott.com) at least 0.01g accuracy, I'd think, if you're weighing out 50 doses at a time, your margin-of error will be at a manageable level).
as alternative means of dosing, an olive-oil suspension is relatively simple and straight-forward. it has been used by a lot o' guys for a lot o' stuff
ironic you should mention ALCAR - that was one of the first powders I capped - and it nearly soured me on the idea: stuff is SO hygroscopic (ie, hungry to suck moisture from the air) that it sticks to EVERYTHING, gums up the works, etc! If there was EVER a supp. to buy pre-capped this is the one!
02-14-2005, 10:26 AM
You don't weigh out each individual dose.Originally Posted by BodyWizard
Although there are easier methods out there when it comes to capping orals they produce results that are somewhat less than accurate. I (SV-1) decided to write this article to show you step by step how to produce caps with a high level of accuracy. Credit goes to AnabolicMaster, ColdStone and Lozgod who helped make this possible.
Things you will need to make your caps.
1. A capping device and empty gel caps. The two most popular capping devices are the "Cap-M-Quick" and "The Capsule Machine". The cap-m-quick does 50 caps at a time but you have to manually join the caps by hand. The capsule machine only does 24 caps at a time but automatically joins them for you. Both of these devices can be purchased to use either size "0" or "00" caps (size "0" caps are smaller than size "00"). I prefer the capsule machine and size "0" caps, but either device in either size is fine.
2. A scale to weigh the powders you'll be using to make your caps. I recommend either the Palmscale 5.0 which is accurate to 0.1g and has a capacity of 200g (cost approx $60), or the GemPro-50 which is accurate to 0.002g and has a capacity of 10g (cost approx $150).
3. The powdered version of the compound that you plan on capping. Oral compounds such as Anavar, DNP, Clomid, Dbol, Nolva and Winny make good capping choices. However compounds such as Clen, T3, Femara and Arimidex should never be capped because of their small dose amounts and the inherent inaccuracies of the capping process.
4. A powdered filler that will be used to take up the space in the caps that the active compound doesn't. Almost anything can be used as a filler, Protein Powder, Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate), Corn Starch, Flour, Creatine, Lactose, Glutamine, etc.
5. A mortar and pestle to thoroughly mix the active compound and filler together. Many compounding pharmacies use a mortar and pestle to mix their ingredients together for capping and if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.
Now that we have everything necessary to make our caps here's how we do it. For the example below I'll use the capsule machine to make 48 caps with 100mg of Aspirin (active compound) and Baking Soda (filler).
1. Load 24 empty caps into the capsule machine, then fill all 24 caps with Baking Soda (tamping powder if final caps will be tamped).
2. Empty all the Baking Soda out of the capsule machine and weigh it. Total weight = 17,160mg
3. Divide that weight (17,160mg) by the number of capsules (24) to get the total weight per cap. 17,160mg / 24 = 715mg a cap.
4. Repeat these steps with the Aspirin powder. Total weight = 11,760mg / 24 = 490mg a cap.
5. Now we need to figure out the ratio of Aspirin to Baking Soda.
100mg Aspirin = Unknown mg of Baking Soda
490mg Aspirin = 715mg Baking Soda
(100mg Aspirin x 715mg Baking Soda) / 490mg Aspirin = 146mg of Baking Soda (this is the Unknown mg of Baking Soda, and how much must be removed to make space for 100mg of Aspirin)
715mg Baking Soda - 146mg = 569mg Baking Soda (this is how much Baking Soda to use per cap)
569mg Baking Soda x 48 caps = 27,312mg Baking Soda
100mg Aspirin x 48 caps = 4800mg Aspirin
So to make 48 100mg Aspirin caps we need 4800mg of Aspirin powder and 27,312mg of Baking Soda.
This is where the simpler methods fail and give inaccurate results. As the chart below shows, different compounds (like Aspirin and Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate)) weigh different amounts for the same volume. If we had simply subtracted 100mg from the Baking Soda we would not have had properly dosed caps, because to fit in 100mg of Aspirin we needed to subtract 146mg of Baking Soda.
Now that we know how much active compound and filler to use (Aspirin and Baking Soda) we need to mix them together. To do this we'll use a mortar and pestle with the geometric dilution method, which was introduced to me by pharmguy24 on AU. What's the geometric dilution method you ask? It's a method used when a small amount of powder needs to be *thoroughly* mixed with a larger amount of powder. To do this you mix all of the smaller powder with an approximately equal amount of the larger powder, this blend is called "mix 1". Then combine all of your "mix 1" with an equal amount of the larger powder and blend again, this is "mix 2". Keep going like this until all the powders have been mixed together.
So we place all of the Aspirin powder (the smaller amount of the two different powders) in the mortar and add an equal amount of the Baking Soda (approximately 4800mg), then blend them together with the pestle for a couple of minutes. This combination is our mix 1, and it is now 9600mg (4800mg Aspirin + 4800mg Baking Soda). After it's been blended for a few minutes add an equal amount of Baking Soda (9800mg) to your mix 1 and blend for a couple more minutes. This combination is our mix 2 and is 19,200mg (9800mg from mix 1 + 9800mg Baking Soda). After it's been blended for a few minutes add the remaining Baking Soda (12912mg) to your mix 2 and blend for a couple more minutes.
Why go to this extra trouble? Because even though we know the amounts of Aspirin and Baking Soda we're using are dead on, our caps will not be dosed properly if the powders are not mixed together very thoroughly.
Now we're ready to make our caps.
1. Load both the base and top of the capsule machine with the empty gel caps (the bottom should already be loaded from weighing the powder for mixing).
2. Place the base on its stand and pour the mixed powder over the empty caps, then spread it around using the supplied plastic card so all the caps are filled.
2a. Optional: At this point you can tamp the powder down and add more powder to the caps increasing the amount they can hold. But because what we want to cap fits fine without doing that we didn't calculate for it and wont be doing it.
3. Attach the top of the capsule machine (which contains the other halves of the caps) to the base.
4. Remove the capsule machine from its stand and press it down on your work surface applying even pressure to join the caps.
5. Remove the top from the capsule machine and press against the spring loaded plate on its back to eject the finished caps.
6. Repeat these steps until all your caps are made.
Follow these guidelines and you too can make your own accurately dosed caps.
09-21-2007, 03:56 AM
09-21-2007, 04:11 AM
09-21-2007, 04:46 AM
09-21-2007, 04:52 AM
09-21-2007, 09:46 AM
09-22-2007, 01:56 AM
I just did 100 caps of cissus...they should honestly rename this "CapMQuikr" cause really it's still a pain in the @$$ but still better than doing it one by one
I have to either:
1. Ask NP to stop putting the caps together - Time Saving 5 - 10 minutes
2. Find a way to get the tops all on in one go with something like the tamper
There has to be a way, but other than those things not bad process at all really.
09-22-2007, 02:15 AM
Lozgod is pretty much THE man when it comes to solutions and mixtures. If you have been around all facets of this then you would quickly recognize his name. I suggest you take his advice and also possibly consider mixtures/suspensions (he can also help with those).
Personally I am lazy and would rather pulverize my taste buds by taking **** straight or in some horrible mix haha.
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