Serotonin & Dopamine...

Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last
  1. New Member
    Toff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    194
    Answers
    0

    5htp - legendary, make sure its a good supplier and start low (50mg) increasing if needed. ALWAYS perks me up when im being a grumpy a$$ this time of year. Within 2 weeks you forget the need for it.

    Also, if stressed, try some calming - Im grumpy from that too - so I take Kalms or other supermarket versions

    L-dopa arrived today! A MUST for 5htp users as it depletes dopamine. Together, you feel GREEEEAAAT. I couldn't wait for my usa shipment so I bought USP Powerfull from the uk.


    Don't go to the doc, he'll refer you for chemicals that don't fix the issue or natural option will be 5htp anyway!


  2. New Member
    Clean gene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    111
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by infraredline View Post
    I disagree, if he seeks medical help they are just going to put him on something like Lexapro or Prozac which are just going to cause more of a problem.
    Well said!

  3. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean gene View Post
    Well said!
    I agree that many times SSRIs are handed up absent proper testing resulting in an exacerbation of the problem, especially if the problem is xy axis related. Docs are getting a little better these days regarding the SSRIs.

    Telling someone (especially younger white males) to take D3 without knowing their baseline, however, is perhaps no better than a GP prescribing an SSRI to someone depressed because of jacked hormones. Even with baseline tests, a low D and high blood calcium could be indicative of a parathyroid. Low D3 prohibits intestines from absorbing more calcium to protect the body from high blood calcium levels. Ingesting more D3 could be very, very bad even if you have low D-25 without a full understanding of the bigger picture.

    The point here is that a healthy younger individual eating a proper diet will generally have homeostasis with D3 and calcium levels. The lower range D25 blood level was also recently reduced from 30ng to 20ng. I doubt very seriously most, if any of you, need or will benefit from D supplements if you are less than 30, male, or non-Hispanic white. Candidly, unless you are some 65 year old granny with jacked hormones, have Parkinson's, MS et al., vitamin D will perhaps do nothing for you. So much misinformation or manipulation of data employed to promote D.

    •   
       

  4. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post

    I agree that many times SSRIs are handed up absent proper testing resulting in an exacerbation of the problem, especially if the problem is xy axis related. Docs are getting a little better these days regarding the SSRIs.

    Telling someone (especially younger white males) to take D3 without knowing their baseline, however, is perhaps no better than a GP prescribing an SSRI to someone depressed because of jacked hormones. Even with baseline tests, a low D and high blood calcium could be indicative of a parathyroid. Low D3 prohibits intestines from absorbing more calcium to protect the body from high blood calcium levels. Ingesting more D3 could be very, very bad even if you have low D-25 without a full understanding of the bigger picture.

    The point here is that a healthy younger individual eating a proper diet will generally have homeostasis with D3 and calcium levels. The lower range D25 blood level was also recently reduced from 30ng to 20ng. I doubt very seriously most, if any of you, need or will benefit from D supplements if you are less than 30, male, or non-Hispanic white. Candidly, unless you are some 65 year old granny with jacked hormones, have Parkinson's, MS et al., vitamin D will perhaps do nothing for you. So much misinformation or manipulation of data employed to promote D.
    This probably needs a cooper or synapsin response but remember there is vitamin D and vitamin D3 supplements and,during colder winter months it should be almost mandatory to get extra d3 in the system considering the sun is the main source of it.

    The safe UL is noted at around 10,000iu and there are so many benefits with supplementing with d3, if deficiet, that doing so in winter should be paramount.

    Can I ask you what basis you lay the claim that supplementing with it is not needed given the plethora of data on the subject showing benefits?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  5. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This probably needs a cooper or synapsin response but remember there is vitamin D and vitamin D3 supplements and,during colder winter months it should be almost mandatory to get extra d3 in the system considering the sun is the main source of it.
    Almost mandatory? According to whom? Supplement companies, vitamin companies, health food stores, homeopathic companies et al. I do know a few DOs and GPs that used to make such statements, but have since backed off.

    In healthy individuals, blood levels of cholecalciferol naturally peak in the fall, build up in your system and help production of d throughout the winter months. Again, if you are a young, white male that ingests a healthy diet, you are most likely in a state of homeostasis with regard to d and calcium regulation throughout the winter months.

    Unlike the body's conversion of sun, taking d supplements can cause hypercalcemia. The body will down regulate D in a state of hypercalcemia to impede the small intestine's absorption of more calcium to guard against further hypercalcemia. The body can and will maintain this homeostasis with natural d production, but cannot with supplemental vitamin d.

    Guess what? Hypercalcemia due to unnecessary ingestion of supplemental d can cause: depression, memory loss, apathy and irritability.

    I primarily took issue with your feel good comments regarding taking supplemental d. The feel good reaction from the sun is not a result of vitamin d. The sun's feel good comes from an opioid B-endorphin through stimulation of POMC.

  6. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,146
    Answers
    7

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    So much misinformation or manipulation of data employed to promote __________.
    I know you put "vit D" in there when you typed it, but let's just be real and fill in the blank with whatever you want
    this forum is great, but ppl sure stretch the credibility of this or that study etc when attempting to "prove a point"
    I get a chuckle almost daily
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com

  7. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post

    Almost mandatory? According to whom? Supplement companies, vitamin companies, health food stores, homeopathic companies et al. I do know a few DOs and GPs that used to make such statements, but have since backed off.

    In healthy individuals, blood levels of cholecalciferol naturally peak in the fall, build up in your system and help production of d throughout the winter months. Again, if you are a young, white male that ingests a healthy diet, you are most likely in a state of homeostasis with regard to d and calcium regulation throughout the winter months.

    Unlike the body's conversion of sun, taking d supplements can cause hypercalcemia. The body will down regulate D in a state of hypercalcemia to impede the small intestine's absorption of more calcium to guard against further hypercalcemia. The body can and will maintain this homeostasis with natural d production, but cannot with supplemental vitamin d.

    Guess what? Hypercalcemia due to unnecessary ingestion of supplemental d can cause: depression, memory loss, apathy and irritability.

    I primarily took issue with your feel good comments regarding taking supplemental d. The feel good reaction from the sun is not a result of vitamin d. The sun's feel good comes from an opioid B-endorphin through stimulation of POMC.
    Cooper is a, at least to my knowledge, a proponent of supplemental vit D3.
    @mr.cooper69 @Synapsin @De__eB

    If this is true, which the overwhelming doesnt support, then I want to hear it from these guys.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  8. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    I know you put "vit D" in there when you typed it, but let's just be real and fill in the blank with whatever you want
    this forum is great, but ppl sure stretch the credibility of this or that study etc when attempting to "prove a point"
    I get a chuckle almost daily
    You're being ignorant if you feel all studies are biased to make you buy product.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  9. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,146
    Answers
    7

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    You're being ignorant if you feel all studies are biased to make you buy product.
    what? jigzz, I am shocked by your own lack of thought in that post
    where the hell did I say anything remotely resembling what you accuse me of?
    I think you need some sleep buddy
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com

  10. Advanced Member
    Synapsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    680
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    What's nonsense about it? Agmatine is a confirmed neurotransmitter in the human body and ArA excess is implicated in all sorts of neurological conditions.
    I know eh? I saw his post and figured no point in getting into a pointless argument.

    About vit D: people tend to be more deficient than they think, but not everybody is and its quite easy to take care of. Vit D should realistically be taken by people who have had blood tests showing they are deficient, although it won't hurt most people to supplement vit D. Supplementing it when you don't need it, however, is pointless.
    PES
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://facebook.com/pescience

  11. Advanced Member
    Synapsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    680
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Cooper is a, at least to my knowledge, a proponent of supplemental vit D3.
    @mr.cooper69 @Synapsin @De__eB

    If this is true, which the overwhelming doesnt support, then I want to hear it from these guys.
    Toxicity from Vit D requires an incredibly high dose, but Hypercalcemia is certainly possible at realistic doses (especially if combined with supplementing calcium). It's pretty rare though.
    PES
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://facebook.com/pescience

  12. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    what? jigzz, I am shocked by your own lack of thought in that post
    where the hell did I say anything remotely resembling what you accuse me of?
    I think you need some sleep buddy
    Thought you were digging at me with that post is all.

    I've been slammed a bit in the training world for citing studies on various things only to have people throw in similar comments.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  13. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This probably needs a cooper or synapsin response but remember there is vitamin D and vitamin D3 supplements and,during colder winter months it should be almost mandatory to get extra d3 in the system considering the sun is the main source of it.

    The safe UL is noted at around 10,000iu and there are so many benefits with supplementing with d3, if deficiet, that doing so in winter should be paramount.

    Can I ask you what basis you lay the claim that supplementing with it is not needed given the plethora of data on the subject showing benefits?

    What data, studies on 50 to 70 year old women???

    Seriously, you would recommend a healthy, young white male with normal D 1,25 levels take 10,000 ius a day? Kind hurts your credibility as to any recommendations. Those doses are contemplated for geriatric women with severe deficiencies and an inability to convert naturally and 10,000 ius and 10,000 ius can potentially cause hypervitaminosis.

    Data . . . Read my last post so you can perhaps understand why supplemental d can cause hypercalcemia whereas natural conversion of sunlight will not cause hypercalcemia and throw body out of a state of homeostasis as far as regulation of serum calcium levels.

  14. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post

    What data, studies on 50 to 70 year old women???

    Seriously, you would recommend a healthy, young white male with normal D 1,25 levels take 10,000 ius a day? Kind hurts your credibility as to any recommendations. Those doses are contemplated for geriatric women with severe deficiencies and an inability to convert naturally and 10,000 ius and 10,000 ius can potentially cause hypervitaminosis.

    Data . . . Read my last post so you can perhaps understand why supplemental d can cause hypercalcemia whereas natural conversion of sunlight will not cause hypercalcemia and throw body out of a state of homeostasis as far as regulation of serum calcium levels.
    I didnt say their levels were normal. Theres no way I could know that. But vit d supplementation is very common
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  15. Elite Member
    Young Gotti's Avatar
    Stats
    5'5"  100 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    5,361
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    I know you put "vit D" in there when you typed it, but let's just be real and fill in the blank with whatever you want
    this forum is great, but ppl sure stretch the credibility of this or that study etc when attempting to "prove a point"
    I get a chuckle almost daily
    gotta love this place

  16. New Member
    MyKH3LL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  194 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Age
    30
    Posts
    268
    Answers
    0

    I have to admit that during my current 'cycle' of DOPADEX I've not only had some of the best sleep (and most intense dreams) of my life but my mood has been amazing. I feel positive and generally have a real spring in my step.

    The sex life is also reaping the rewards :P

    I can highly recommend this product from my own experiences.
    I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there... Please save me, Superman!

  17. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post

    I know eh? I saw his post and figured no point in getting into a pointless argument.

    About vit D: people tend to be more deficient than they think, but not everybody is and its quite easy to take care of. Vit D should realistically be taken by people who have had blood tests showing they are deficient, although it won't hurt most people to supplement vit D. Supplementing it when you don't need it, however, is pointless.
    Thanks synapsin. Appreciate the input
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  18. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    Toxicity from Vit D requires an incredibly high dose, but Hypercalcemia is certainly possible at realistic doses (especially if combined with supplementing calcium). It's pretty rare though.
    Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

    I primarily responded to note that the feel good effect from sun has little or nothing to do with vitamin d and more to do with an opioid B-endorphin stimulation.

    I, however, do feel that people on here are using studies or data completely unrelated to healthy white young males to promote use of something that may not be needed and that could potentially cause problems.

    Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.

  19. Advanced Member
    Synapsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    680
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Thanks synapsin. Appreciate the input
    Any time.

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

    Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.
    Yes, it is certainly possible. It would be rare but it can definitely happen, especially if they have any other relevant health issues. I personally supplement 10k IU in the Winter, but its because I test myself and I spend most of the day indoors. Like I said, you shouldn't supplement it if you don't know you're deficient in it.
    PES
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://facebook.com/pescience

  20. New Member
    MyKH3LL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  194 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Age
    30
    Posts
    268
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

    I primarily responded to note that the feel good effect from sun has little or nothing to do with vitamin d and more to do with an opioid B-endorphin stimulation.

    I, however, do feel that people on here are using studies or data completely unrelated to healthy white young males to promote use of something that may not be needed and that could potentially cause problems.

    Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.
    I dose 10,000 IU of VD3 mon-fri and have done so for... probably years now. I'm just shy of turning 30 myself.

    No health issues and only positive things to report. I think most people are D3 deficit without even knowing it and supplementing with it is a great idea. Should be a staple imho... oh, and FWIW I'm in Australia so not exactly short of the sunshine down here.
    I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there... Please save me, Superman!

  21. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    I know eh? I saw his post and figured no point in getting into a pointless argument.

    About vit D: people tend to be more deficient than they think, but not everybody is and its quite easy to take care of. Vit D should realistically be taken by people who have had blood tests showing they are deficient, although it won't hurt most people to supplement vit D. Supplementing it when you don't need it, however, is pointless.
    What demographics of people tend to be deficient is the real question. I doubt those that tend to be deficient, 50 to 70 year old grams, are on here reading about weight lifting supplements. They reduced lower end range of 1,25 down to 20ng/ml which took most out of the "deficient range."

    D 1,25 levels fluctuate and a single low reading could be attributable to a high calcium intake day or an underlying parathyroid issue, both of which would be contraindicated for d supplementation.

  22. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by MyKH3LL View Post
    I dose 10,000 IU of VD3 mon-fri and have done so for... probably years now. I'm just shy of turning 30 myself.

    No health issues and only positive things to report. I think most people are D3 deficit without even knowing it and supplementing with it is a great idea. Should be a staple imho... oh, and FWIW I'm in Australia so not exactly short of the sunshine down here.
    You could be causing damage to your arteries and not know it for some time. If content on taking high doses of d3 for no health reason or deficiency, might consider speaking to a doctor about vit k.

    I am all for people taking whatever and doing whatever with their body. I, however, see so many young people on here completely jacked up. How sad is it 20 something year olds needing libido enhancers. You may think your not doing any damage, but it may take a while to manifest.

  23. New Member
    Clean gene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    111
    Answers
    0

    You make a valid point also. Both your points are along the same lines. One is backed by big pharma and the other by big vitamin companies.

    Most people in our instant gratification society wants quick results and answers. That is not the reality of dealing with personal psychology, even though the science of psychology has become just as big of a pill pusher as the AMA. I used to tell my patients to talk, listen and meditate, not medicate. Truly, most psychological disorders are minor in the public at large. There is a small part of the population that really needs psycho active drugs for their disorders.

    I would rather see the original poster take D3 than have some ''expert" put him on Abilify or prozac and make him even worse than he started. Abilify for example is a very power antipsychotic drug now being touted for bipolar disorder or just plain depression. This Stuff is scary to use on a ''normal person'' it can possible make a person worse off then they were.

    Take a step back and breathe. Get out in nature. Hike, walk. Don't look for the quick answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    I agree that many times SSRIs are handed up absent proper testing resulting in an exacerbation of the problem, especially if the problem is xy axis related. Docs are getting a little better these days regarding the SSRIs.

    Telling someone (especially younger white males) to take D3 without knowing their baseline, however, is perhaps no better than a GP prescribing an SSRI to someone depressed because of jacked hormones. Even with baseline tests, a low D and high blood calcium could be indicative of a parathyroid. Low D3 prohibits intestines from absorbing more calcium to protect the body from high blood calcium levels. Ingesting more D3 could be very, very bad even if you have low D-25 without a full understanding of the bigger picture.

    The point here is that a healthy younger individual eating a proper diet will generally have homeostasis with D3 and calcium levels. The lower range D25 blood level was also recently reduced from 30ng to 20ng. I doubt very seriously most, if any of you, need or will benefit from D supplements if you are less than 30, male, or non-Hispanic white. Candidly, unless you are some 65 year old granny with jacked hormones, have Parkinson's, MS et al., vitamin D will perhaps do nothing for you. So much misinformation or manipulation of data employed to promote D.

  24. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean gene View Post
    You make a valid point also. Both your points are along the same lines. One is backed by big pharma and the other by big vitamin companies.

    Most people in our instant gratification society wants quick results and answers. That is not the reality of dealing with personal psychology, even though the science of psychology has become just as big of a pill pusher as the AMA. I used to tell my patients to talk, listen and meditate, not medicate. Truly, most psychological disorders are minor in the public at large. There is a small part of the population that really needs psycho active drugs for their disorders.

    I would rather see the original poster take D3 than have some ''expert" put him on Abilify or prozac and make him even worse than he started. Abilify for example is a very power antipsychotic drug now being touted for bipolar disorder or just plain depression. This Stuff is scary to use on a ''normal person'' it can possible make a person worse off then they were.

    Take a step back and breathe. Get out in nature. Hike, walk. Don't look for the quick answer.

    For sure.

    Screw the D3 and the SSRIs. Go do some Bikram Yoga . . . along with weights and eating right. Bikram Yoga will get you right. I need to start back up.

  25. Elite Member
    chedapalooza's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Age
    25
    Posts
    7,304
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post

    For sure.

    Screw the D3 and the SSRIs. Go do some Bikram Yoga . . . along with weights and eating right. Bikram Yoga will get you right. I need to start back up.
    Ill look this up but what is the important cliff notes for bikram yoga? I was under the impression certain types of yoga r detrimental to body building efforts due to the practice of Elongating muscles in a way that isn't conducive to BB goals (round/fullness of muscles)...
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
    Follow my 2014 training and supps!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240285-chedapaloozas-2014-training.html

  26. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post

    Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

    I primarily responded to note that the feel good effect from sun has little or nothing to do with vitamin d and more to do with an opioid B-endorphin stimulation.

    I, however, do feel that people on here are using studies or data completely unrelated to healthy white young males to promote use of something that may not be needed and that could potentially cause problems.

    Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.
    I use 1,000-2,000iu daily. I wasnt saying to use 10,000iu just to be clear
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  27. Advanced Member
    De__eB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    932
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Cooper is a, at least to my knowledge, a proponent of supplemental vit D3.
    @mr.cooper69 @Synapsin @De__eB

    If this is true, which the overwhelming doesnt support, then I want to hear it from these guys.
    I'm a fan of vitamin D.

    There was a recent study showing a reduction in muscle damage with vitamin D supplementation in healthy, young, active males, with vitamin D levels slightly low yet within normal range (A set of demographics I would imagine a huge number of people in this community fit into)

    There is also a difference between clinical deficiency and suboptimal levels of an essential nutrient. Lots of people aren't clinically deficient enough in Vitamin D that they are experiencing significant negative effects as a result, you can still however benefit from supplementation.

    E.G.

    Leucine is an essential nutrient.

    The average person is not deficient in leucine.

    You can however consume more leucine every day and experience beneficial effects.
    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com

  28. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post

    I'm a fan of vitamin D.

    There was a recent study showing a reduction in muscle damage with vitamin D supplementation in healthy, young, active males, with vitamin D levels slightly low yet within normal range (A set of demographics I would imagine a huge number of people in this community fit into)

    There is also a difference between clinical deficiency and suboptimal levels of an essential nutrient. Lots of people aren't clinically deficient enough in Vitamin D that they are experiencing significant negative effects as a result, you can still however benefit from supplementation.

    E.G.

    Leucine is an essential nutrient.

    The average person is not deficient in leucine.

    You can however consume more leucine every day and experience beneficial effects.
    I did a research paper on vit d a year or so ago and the vast majority of studies were positive and I was wondering if I had missed something between now and then that made it dangerous.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  29. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,146
    Answers
    7

    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    There is also a difference between clinical deficiency and suboptimal levels of an essential nutrient. Lots of people aren't clinically deficient enough in Vitamin D that they are experiencing significant negative effects as a result, you can still however benefit from supplementation.

    E.G.

    Leucine is an essential nutrient.

    The average person is not deficient in leucine.

    You can however consume more leucine every day and experience beneficial effects.
    I can grasp the point you are trying to make..however, comparing excess amino intake with excessive vitamin/mineral intake, above optimal or established levels, is certainly apples & oranges no?

    more melatonin does not better sleep make..more zinc does not more T make..and too much potassium can stop your heart, just to name a few
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com

  30. New Member
    KevinJackson's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  95 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    20
    Answers
    0

    I think medical consultancy is better for depression kind of thing.

  31. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    My wife, an endo, says not to take more than 1,000 ius daily and most healthy young males only need 400 to 800. She works with rehabbing professional athletes at Andrews Clinic after injuries and surgery and surgical repair. Diet and hormone optimization is a big piece here.

    I cannot link to her so below are some articles and blurbs. As with anything, read skeptically and realize that excess of fat soluable vitamins might not be as safe as you think.

    -----

    The good news is that you can't overdose on the vitamin D manufactured by your skin. But as for vitamin D in the diet and in pills, Sandon says that the upper limit is 2,000 IU a day. "Vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin, so it's stored in the body," she says. "If you're taking a supplement that puts your daily intake at more than 2,000 IU, you can get a toxic or overdose effect, which can possibly lead to kidney stones or kidney damage, muscle weakness, or excessive bleeding."

    http://www.m.webmd.com/food-recipes/...-health?page=7

    ----

    Here is a doctor that basically says don't exceed 1,000 ius and excess d over time can cause cardiac issues, calcification of arteries, calcification of vessels in the brain, calcufucation of soft tissues, atrial fibrillation, increased levels of CRP, impaired kidney function and . . .

    http://www.raysahelian.com/vitamind.html

    -----

    Dr. Jo Ann Carson, a clinical nutritionist at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, says dietary vitamin D offers a solution for people who are at high risk of skin cancer or who just don't want to take any chances.

    Taking a vitamin D supplement every day can also help, but don't take more than 1,000 IU per day, Carson said.

    Read more: http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2008/...#ixzz2oNZz62mt

  32. Advanced Member
    De__eB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    932
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    blah blah webmd and blogspam
    Not seeing where one could possibly draw the conclusion from any published data that over 2000 iu, much less over 1000 iu is risky. The predominant UL suggested by pretty much all modern published analysis is 10,000 IU

    A 21st century evaluation of the safety of oral vitamin D.

    Because long-term daily intakes up to and including 10 000 IU of vitamin D do not produce signs or symptoms of vitamin D toxicity and are safe for the entire general population of otherwise healthy adults, even daily vitamin D intakes of 2000 IU allow for the often-cited and excessively conservative five-fold safety factor. In conclusion, long-term daily intakes of up to and including 10 000 IU of vitamin D maximize physiologic benefits and are safe.
    Risk assessment for vitamin D.

    We present a risk assessment based on relevant, well-designed human clinical trials of vitamin D. Collectively, the absence of toxicity in trials conducted in healthy adults that used vitamin D dose > or = 250 microg/d (10,000 IU vitamin D3) supports the confident selection of this value as the UL.
    Vitamin D toxicity, policy, and science.

    . The clinical trial evidence shows that a prolonged intake of 250 mug (10,000 IU)/d of vitamin D(3) is likely to pose no risk of adverse effects in almost all individuals in the general population; this meets the criteria for a tolerable upper intake level.
    Mayoclinic: Vitamin D

    Safety research supports an upper limit of a dose of vitamin D to be more than or equal to 250 micrograms daily (10,000 IU of vitamin D3)
    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com

  33. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Not seeing where one could possibly draw the conclusion from any published data that over 2000 iu, much less over 1000 iu is risky. The predominant UL suggested by pretty much all modern published analysis is 10,000 IU

    A 21st century evaluation of the safety of oral vitamin D.



    Risk assessment for vitamin D.



    Vitamin D toxicity, policy, and science.



    Mayoclinic: Vitamin D
    Haha, I will err on side of advice from doctors as opposed to that 2007 Pub Med study.

    Perhaps the issue is not simply toxicity if you read the article by the doctor above and as I noted earlier. There are concerns about long term calcification of arteries and soft tissue, increased incidence of atrial fibrillation and a host of other potential issues that may not fit neatly with the purview of observed acute toxicity.

    BTW, are all three of your links all related to or based on the same 2007 study?

    Why bang away at 5,000 or 10,000 ius daily when no doctors seem to be saying that is necessary or beneficial in young healthy males, much less geriatrics. Just the if good, more must be better mentality of those peddling supplements.

  34. Advanced Member
    De__eB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    932
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    Haha, I will err on side of advice from doctors as opposed to that 2007 Pub Med study.

    Perhaps the issue is not simply toxicity if you read the article by the doctor above and as I noted earlier. There are concerns about long term calcification of arteries and soft tissue, increased incidence of atrial fibrillation and a host of other potential issues that may not fit neatly with the purview of observed acute toxicity.

    BTW, are all three of your links all related to or based on the same 2007 study?

    Why bang away at 5,000 or 10,000 ius daily when no doctors seem to be saying that is necessary or beneficial in young healthy males, much less geriatrics. Just the if good, more must be better mentality of those peddling supplements.
    What? It's three different meta-analysis, and the mayoclinics guidelines.

    I'll take the advice of those published peer reviewed sources and an authority on medicine over a random quack who also shills, LAUGHABLY underdosed supplements (see: http://www.raysahelian.com/mindpowerrx.html) an unsourced news article, and an unsourced webmd article.


    Note, I'm not saying everyone should supplement 10,000 IU per day, I'm just saying that to suggest that there are no benefits, and in fact significant risks at any dosing higher than 1,000 or 2,000 IU is just laughable scare tactics.
    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com

  35. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    What? It's three different meta-analysis, and the mayoclinics guidelines.

    I'll take the advice of those published peer reviewed sources and an authority on medicine over a random quack who also shills, LAUGHABLY underdosed supplements (see: http://www.raysahelian.com/mindpowerrx.html) an unsourced news article, and an unsourced webmd article.


    Note, I'm not saying everyone should supplement 10,000 IU per day, I'm just saying that to suggest that there are no benefits, and in fact significant risks at any dosing higher than 1,000 or 2,000 IU is just laughable scare tactics.

    I believe there was only one 2007 study that addresses toxicity at 10,000 ius. You still ignore the artery calcification, soft tissue calcufication or potential increased incidence in congestive heart failure issues. Even the 10,000 iu ul has been questioned as to safety as noted below. You focus on acute toxicity. The concerns seem to be related to long term cardiovascular impact and etc.

    You evade the real issues and still produce notta saying that a young healthy male would benefit from greater than 1,000 ius. Candidly, its all good and vitamin d is perhaps so low on the list of potentially harmful substances being ingested around here it is not worth discussing.

    About to catch our flight to Bali. Happy holidays.

    -----

    While symptoms of toxicity are unlikely at daily intakes below 10,000 IU/day, the FNB pointed to emerging science from national survey data, observational studies, and clinical trials suggesting that even lower vitamin D intakes and serum 25(OH)D levels might have adverse health effects over time. The FNB concluded that serum 25(OH)D levels above approximately 125150 nmol/L (5060 ng/mL) should be avoided, as even lower serum levels (approximately 75120 nmol/L or 3048 ng/mL) are associated with increases in all-cause mortality, greater risk of cancer at some sites like the pancreas, greater risk of cardiovascular events, and more falls and fractures among the elderly. The FNB committee cited research which found that vitamin D intakes of 5,000 IU/day achieved serum 25(OH)D concentrations between 100150 nmol/L (4060 ng/mL), but no greater. Applying an uncertainty factor of 20% to this intake value gave a UL of 4,000 IU

    http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vit...hProfessional/

  36. Advanced Member
    De__eB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    932
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    I believe there was only one 2007 study that addresses toxicity at 10,000 ius. You still ignore the artery calcification, soft tissue calcufication or potential increased incidence in congestive heart failure issues. Even the 10,000 iu ul has been questioned as to safety as noted below. You focus on acute toxicity. The concerns seem to be related to long term cardiovascular impact and etc.

    You evade the real issues and still produce notta saying that a young healthy male would benefit from greater than 1,000 ius. Candidly, its all good and vitamin d is perhaps so low on the list of potentially harmful substances being ingested around here it is not worth discussing.

    About to catch our flight to Bali. Happy holidays.

    -----

    While symptoms of toxicity are unlikely at daily intakes below 10,000 IU/day, the FNB pointed to emerging science from national survey data, observational studies, and clinical trials suggesting that even lower vitamin D intakes and serum 25(OH)D levels might have adverse health effects over time. The FNB concluded that serum 25(OH)D levels above approximately 125–150 nmol/L (50–60 ng/mL) should be avoided, as even lower serum levels (approximately 75–120 nmol/L or 30–48 ng/mL) are associated with increases in all-cause mortality, greater risk of cancer at some sites like the pancreas, greater risk of cardiovascular events, and more falls and fractures among the elderly. The FNB committee cited research which found that vitamin D intakes of 5,000 IU/day achieved serum 25(OH)D concentrations between 100–150 nmol/L (40–60 ng/mL), but no greater. Applying an uncertainty factor of 20% to this intake value gave a UL of 4,000 IU

    http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vit...hProfessional/
    I already referenced a study from this year showing that 4,000 IU daily had exercise benefits in Young, active, non-deficient humans.

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/69

    --

    Also, I'm not focusing on acute toxicity at all...The acute tolerable upper limit of vitamin D is something absurd like a 250,000 IU bolus once per month.

    All of the references I'm making are about long term daily safety at 10,000 IU.
    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com

  37. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,125
    Answers
    1

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post

    I believe there was only one 2007 study that addresses toxicity at 10,000 ius. You still ignore the artery calcification, soft tissue calcufication or potential increased incidence in congestive heart failure issues. Even the 10,000 iu ul has been questioned as to safety as noted below. You focus on acute toxicity. The concerns seem to be related to long term cardiovascular impact and etc.

    You evade the real issues and still produce notta saying that a young healthy male would benefit from greater than 1,000 ius. Candidly, its all good and vitamin d is perhaps so low on the list of potentially harmful substances being ingested around here it is not worth discussing.

    About to catch our flight to Bali. Happy holidays.

    -----

    While symptoms of toxicity are unlikely at daily intakes below 10,000 IU/day, the FNB pointed to emerging science from national survey data, observational studies, and clinical trials suggesting that even lower vitamin D intakes and serum 25(OH)D levels might have adverse health effects over time. The FNB concluded that serum 25(OH)D levels above approximately 125150 nmol/L (5060 ng/mL) should be avoided, as even lower serum levels (approximately 75120 nmol/L or 3048 ng/mL) are associated with increases in all-cause mortality, greater risk of cancer at some sites like the pancreas, greater risk of cardiovascular events, and more falls and fractures among the elderly. The FNB committee cited research which found that vitamin D intakes of 5,000 IU/day achieved serum 25(OH)D concentrations between 100150 nmol/L (4060 ng/mL), but no greater. Applying an uncertainty factor of 20% to this intake value gave a UL of 4,000 IU

    http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vit...hProfessional/
    Do you have any data of what you are talking about actually occuring? Not just you typing that x happens but data showing x happens at y dose?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable

  38. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    I already referenced a study from this year showing that 4,000 IU daily had exercise benefits in Young, active, non-deficient humans.

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/10/1/69

    --

    Also, I'm not focusing on acute toxicity at all...The acute tolerable upper limit of vitamin D is something absurd like a 250,000 IU bolus once per month.

    All of the references I'm making are about long term daily safety at 10,000 IU.
    In sorry, but that study cracks me up. At least what I could read of it before they close the door. Anything to pimp supplements. Potentially wreck your heart on D3 so you are not as sore after your workout. What's a little a fib or calcification in arteries if my recovery after exercise gets better. Love it!

  39. Advanced Member
    De__eB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    932
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    In sorry, but that study cracks me up. At least what I could read of it before they close the door. Anything to pimp supplements. Potentially wreck your heart on D3 so you are not as sore after your workout. What's a little a fib or calcification in arteries if my recovery after exercise gets better. Love it!
    Please provide one single shred of data to demonstrate that the 4,000 IU used in that study will have any of the ill effects you're claiming on anybody whatsoever, in the absence of a severe excess of calcium, or severe deficiency of vitamins A and K

    I won't hold my breath waiting on it though.
    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com

  40. New Member
    996ttelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    430
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Please provide one single shred of data to demonstrate that the 4,000 IU used in that study will have any of the ill effects you're claiming on anybody whatsoever, in the absence of a severe excess of calcium, or severe deficiency of vitamins A and K

    I won't hold my breath waiting on it though.
    Sarcasm bro, sarcasm. 4,000 ius should be safe, just perhaps not necessary. That study is still a riot! I am sure everyone will throw D3 in their PWOs and cite this study! Been real! Off to get some real D!

  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Serotonin and dopamine circardian rhythm?
    By comacho in forum Supplements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-03-2009, 03:26 PM
  2. ( Serotonin VS. Dopamine )
    By gotDOMS in forum Supplements
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-15-2007, 10:46 PM
  3. amps and sterility
    By morfiend in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-24-2004, 10:49 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-22-2004, 10:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in