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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    No, there are 29 people with a rapid onset non viral hepatitis causing liver failure and 24 used OEP, all in the same area.
    You're mis-understanding my point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post

    You're mis-understanding my point.
    No, I'm not.


    You're saying it is without a doubt the fault of OEP, I'm saying that it isn't the only common denominator in this situation.


    Some had the same issue, at the same time, in the same place, WITHOUT OEP.
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    He is saying people there get hepatitis...not just ones that were taking oep...so just chance on the non oep related cases.

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    Oxyelite has been on the market now.. what .. 4 years? 5 years? Why is all of the sudden we now seen 20 something cases all coming out of one area in one sudden time frame, when this product has been consumed by 100 of thousands of people all over the world? Not to mention all of the knock offs of OEP.. why are those people not dropping dead either? If you listen to that Dr she says the product will "shut down your kidneys, make your brain swell" those are pretty outrageous claims. Something does not add up, and OEP is definitely not the causative factor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    He is saying people there get hepatitis...not just ones that were taking oep...so just chance on the non oep related cases.
    You are right. Hawaii sees 2-3 hepatitis cases a year.. and now they see 26 at one time with 24 of those supposedly using OEP. So what about those other 2? Why did they get it too when it is so rare in Hawaii? And again.. why are the boards not filled with people posting about jaundice, elevated liver enzymes, hospitalization, liver shut down, transplant needed when just about every single person on the boards has used OEP???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duywayne View Post

    You are right. Hawaii sees 2-3 hepatitis cases a year.. and now they see 26 at one time with 24 of those supposedly using OEP. So what about those other 2? Why did they get it too when it is so rare in Hawaii? And again.. why are the boards not filled with people posting about jaundice, elevated liver enzymes, hospitalization, liver shut down, transplant needed when just about every single person on the boards has used OEP???
    Boom, that's my point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duywayne View Post
    You are right. Hawaii sees 2-3 hepatitis cases a year.. and now they see 26 at one time with 24 of those supposedly using OEP. So what about those other 2? Why did they get it too when it is so rare in Hawaii? And again.. why are the boards not filled with people posting about jaundice, elevated liver enzymes, hospitalization, liver shut down, transplant needed when just about every single person on the boards has used OEP???
    The vast majority of OEP users are not forum members. Like it was stated before the fact that Hawaii is "isolated" it could just be that they were able to connect the dots easier. I dont know if there are in any the US or not but it would be much harder to find the common denominator. I believe one of the newscast from Hawaii said that some were bought from a nutrition chain store(first guess would be GNC or a VS)......just thinking out loud here

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    This actually happened to me back in 2010. Liver enzymes went off the charts and felt like I was having a heart attack with severe pain. None of my food would digest and the doctors had no clue what was wrong with me. Came home from the emergency and started vomiting blood. Went back to the hospital for blood tests and stayed there for 3 weeks without eating a single meal, just had an IV bag. Blood tests came back saying that my liver enzymes were extremely elevated and that is the definition of hepatitis, except for the fact that they tested me for hepatitis A, B, and C. All came back negative. They decided to shoot vancomycin through my IV. Started feeling well enough to eat 3 days later. Lost about 30 pounds while I was in the hospital. Some supplements can be hepatotoxic, so don't joke around saying it won't happen to you. It's something you never want to experience. It caused excruciating pain, so bad you beg for morphine every 3 hours. Stay safe guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    The vast majority of OEP users are not forum members. Like it was stated before the fact that Hawaii is "isolated" it could just be that they were able to connect the dots easier. I dont know if there are in any the US or not but it would be much harder to find the common denominator. I believe one of the newscast from Hawaii said that some were bought from a nutrition chain store(first guess would be GNC or a VS)......just thinking out loud here
    I would say a large majority of the members on this board, bb.com, and the rest of the fitness boards have used OEP. If using OEP was sthe common denominator my point is we would have seen a tonnage of post on the forums over the course of the years with people reporting elevated liver enzymes, nausea, vomiting, yellow eyes, jaundice like symptoms, etc - a trend. But we haven't.. which is why something does not click with me with this story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duywayne View Post
    I would say a large majority of the members on this board, bb.com, and the rest of the fitness boards have used OEP. If using OEP was sthe common denominator my point is we would have seen a tonnage of post on the forums over the course of the years with people reporting elevated liver enzymes, nausea, vomiting, yellow eyes, jaundice like symptoms, etc - a trend. But we haven't.. which is why something does not click with me with this story.
    we haven't yet Its possible they got a new batch that was sent only to Hawaii or certain chains...that is done very often. CEL sell enyire batches of Cycle Assist to one buy sometimes

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    The counterfeit theory is an easy first explanation ,but I'm sure the FDA is tracing the chain of custody all the way back to the raw supplier and testing retention samples

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    Quote Originally Posted by SurferDude View Post
    This actually happened to me back in 2010. Liver enzymes went off the charts and felt like I was having a heart attack with severe pain. None of my food would digest and the doctors had no clue what was wrong with me. Came home from the emergency and started vomiting blood. Went back to the hospital for blood tests and stayed there for 3 weeks without eating a single meal, just had an IV bag. Blood tests came back saying that my liver enzymes were extremely elevated and that is the definition of hepatitis, except for the fact that they tested me for hepatitis A, B, and C. All came back negative. They decided to shoot vancomycin through my IV. Started feeling well enough to eat 3 days later. Lost about 30 pounds while I was in the hospital. Some supplements can be hepatotoxic, so don't joke around saying it won't happen to you. It's something you never want to experience. It caused excruciating pain, so bad you beg for morphine every 3 hours. Stay safe guys.
    Do you still use liver toxic supplements now like phs DS, etc. I certainly hope not. If that happened to me i would be done. Its not worth it just to look good. Anyone who thinks it is has some serious insecurity issues. We don't need supplements to look good anyway
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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...1/#!po=6.25000

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    Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...1/#!po=6.25000 Same Doctor, Same State, Sound Familiar....
    A doctor can write about areas of interests/case studies for scholarly journals. Even if he hates supplements I doubt he would "produce" something like this (I think that is what You're insinuating with the article.) I vaguely see a connection but not really. Correlation does not equate to causation. However, 24 people using oep in Hawaii hospitalized all around the exact same time is pretty staggering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duywayne View Post
    Oxyelite has been on the market now.. what .. 4 years? 5 years? Why is all of the sudden we now seen 20 something cases all coming out of one area in one sudden time frame, when this product has been consumed by 100 of thousands of people all over the world? Not to mention all of the knock offs of OEP.. why are those people not dropping dead either? If you listen to that Dr she says the product will "shut down your kidneys, make your brain swell" those are pretty outrageous claims. Something does not add up, and OEP is definitely not the causative factor.
    Way to early to speak in definitive terms like Oxy is DEFINITELY the factor or definitely not. Jumping to absolute conclusions is stupid.

    If you've been following Oxy has been on the market for a few years, but OEP powder, Oxyelite Pro new formula, and OEP Pro Advanced formula are all fairly recent products.

    I'm certainly hoping it wasn't the supplement and I think many people are...but it's WAY too soon to say definitely yes or definitely no.

    Also different runs of supplements could potentially yield different results especially if suppliers change so saying any product from 5 years ago is the exact same as the product released today may not always be true.

    My hope is USP is not to blame and we don't get insane crackdowns on supplements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    He is saying people there get hepatitis...not just ones that were taking oep...so just chance on the non oep related cases.

    Exactly. The point I was trying to make was, people all over the world get hepatitis. The only reason it stuck out this time because there were an inordinate amount of cases. Within those extra cases, 24 of the 29 reported cases were using OEP. I'd judge the cause of this by the majority of the similarity...In other words the ones that were taking the OEP. The people that weren't taking OEP and had the hepatitis, well that could just be considered an average amount of cases(normal or "baseline" cases).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duywayne View Post
    Oxyelite has been on the market now.. what .. 4 years? 5 years? Why is all of the sudden we now seen 20 something cases all coming out of one area in one sudden time frame, when this product has been consumed by 100 of thousands of people all over the world? Not to mention all of the knock offs of OEP.. why are those people not dropping dead either? If you listen to that Dr she says the product will "shut down your kidneys, make your brain swell" those are pretty outrageous claims. Something does not add up, and OEP is definitely not the causative factor.

    "Claims"?. Yeah I'm sure that doctor is is only "claiming" her diagnosees.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duywayne View Post
    I would say a large majority of the members on this board, bb.com, and the rest of the fitness boards have used OEP. If using OEP was sthe common denominator my point is we would have seen a tonnage of post on the forums over the course of the years with people reporting elevated liver enzymes, nausea, vomiting, yellow eyes, jaundice like symptoms, etc - a trend. But we haven't.. which is why something does not click with me with this story.

    Well, most people that are that sick wouldn't bother to start up their laptops, tablets or whatever and get on anabolicminds so they can post how sick they are. That's just ridiculous. Seriously, if you were sitting in hospital bed waiting to see if you die or recover, are you gonna be thinking about some internet message board?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post

    Well, most people that are that sick wouldn't bother to start up their laptops, tablets or whatever and get on anabolicminds so they can post how sick they are. That's just ridiculous. Seriously, if you were sitting in hospital bed waiting to see if you die or recover, are you gonna be thinking about some internet message board?.
    No, but after they recovered I'm sure they would get back on the forum and warn others not to use it.


    Especially considering the number of people who get on here and recommend it based on their experience with it.
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    Regardless of anything, the fact is that these people are sick and they all took OEP. I didn't/don't mean to say that OEP itself is to blame. It seems likely some contamination issue is causing this. I feel terrible for everyone involved. Usp Labs is a good company and they have always be professional, kind and courteous. So please do not mis-understand me. I'm stacking Test Powder/Prime/C20 right now. Wore one of my Usp Labs T-shirts to the gym today. Something obviously happened that was beyond Usp Labs control to cause this outbreak.

    I'm just a bit fearful because something like this happened to me before. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It was the absolute worst experience I've ever had in my life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    No, but after they recovered I'm sure they would get back on the forum and warn others not to use it.


    Especially considering the number of people who get on here and recommend it based on their experience with it.

    That depends....After experiencing something like this it changes your life. I can tell you when I was sick, for several years after I didn't even go on any forums. Wanted absolutely nothing to to with it. The people that post on forums is a very small percentage of the world. Sure there might be a few people that do that, but not many...Mostly because a lot of them would get flamed, and just would rather not argue or deal with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Regardless of anything, the fact is that these people are sick and they all took OEP. I didn't/don't mean to say that OEP itself is to blame. It seems likely some contamination issue is causing this. I feel terrible for everyone involved. Usp Labs is a good company and they have always be professional, kind and courteous. So please do not mis-understand me. I'm stacking Test Powder/Prime/C20 right now. Wore one of my Usp Labs T-shirts to the gym today. Something obviously happened that was beyond Usp Labs control to cause this outbreak. I'm just a bit fearful because something like this happened to me before. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It was the absolute worst experience I've ever had in my life.
    I'm with ya! Either contamination or dare I say a "QC" issue. But it sucks for all parties involved
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Regardless of anything, the fact is that these people are sick and they all took OEP.
    No, that's not the fact at all.


    The fact is that these people are sick and SOME of them took OEP. Some didn't take it at all and still had the same thing happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    No, that's not the fact at all.

    The fact is that these people are sick and SOME of them took OEP. Some didn't take it at all and still had the same thing happen.
    The majority of them did. ...dont get "DS Craze" stupid on us

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    [QUOTE="Afi140;4197763"] A doctor can write about areas of interests/case studies for scholarly journals. Even if he hates supplements I doubt he would "produce" something like this (I think that is what You're insinuating with the article.) I vaguely see a connection but not really. Correlation does not equate to causation. However, 24 people using oep in Hawaii hospitalized all around the exact same time is pretty staggering.[ /QUOTE]

    The more I see USP makes posts like that , the less neutral I become. Its one thing to bring up the possibilities of counterfeit ing( which is a real possibility), but to question the integrity of the dr is another thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    No, that's not the fact at all.


    The fact is that these people are sick and SOME of them took OEP. Some didn't take it at all and still had the same thing happen.
    This doesn't change much of anything though.

    not everyone gets something when taking drug X, but most do wouldn't mean it's safe. The likelihood if something is really wrong with the OEP has to be contamination/QA otherwise we would be seeing this all over the place. It's obviously a really popular product.

    It's just way too early to say anything more than in Hawaii an apparent correlation between OEP and illness exists with multiple people. Nothing more, nothing less at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post

    This doesn't change much of anything though.

    not everyone gets something when taking drug X, but most do wouldn't mean it's safe. The likelihood if something is really wrong with the OEP has to be contamination/QA otherwise we would be seeing this all over the place. It's obviously a really popular product.

    It's just way too early to say anything more than in Hawaii an apparent correlation between OEP and illness exists with multiple people. Nothing more, nothing less at this point.
    I dont think you get what I'm saying.

    I'm not saying OEP is or is not the cause definitively. All I'm saying is that not all of the cases in Hawaii are linked to OEP. Some of the people with the same disease did nor even use OEP, but they still got it anyway.

    I'm not saying anything about people who did take it that didn't have any issues, I'm only talking about the people with the issues that never used it.
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    I did see a post on lean bulk forums about a guy in VA that had a liver transplant that took OEP. Also a woman in PA. Not all cases are going to be documented or reported. Some people may not even tell their doctors they are taking OEP because they don't see how it can cause this type of problem. So there may indeed be more cases...Just not all cases are going to be reported to the media or the FDA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...1/#!po=6.25000

    Same Doctor, Same State, Sound Familiar....
    All you can do is stand by your stuff I feel bad this is happening. All these issues with oxy elite
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    Hawaiian food


    Koa haole needs to be cooked to remove toxins one of which is mimosine
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    Makes this story even more confusing. He was using Oxyelite pro for 2 years.. meaning he has been using the OG formula. Geoforce pointed out that this had to do with the new formulas that are out on the market but they just came out recently. Not to mention this guy was fine using this product for 2 years and then all of the sudden went into liver failure. The cases of liver failure seem to be occurring very rapid. Im starting to believe more what mw1 is saying - Counterfeits in Hawaii? The only thing that makes sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duywayne View Post
    Makes this story even more confusing. He was using Oxyelite pro for 2 years.. meaning he has been using the OG formula. Geoforce pointed out that this had to do with the new formulas that are out on the market but they just came out recently. Not to mention this guy was fine using this product for 2 years and then all of the sudden went into liver failure. The cases of liver failure seem to be occurring very rapid. Im starting to believe more what mw1 is saying - Counterfeits in Hawaii? The only thing that makes sense.

    I don't know if the media has its facts too straight. Specifics are sometimes twisted, left out or wrong. Maybe he was cycling the original for 2 years until the new stuff came out and he switched....Personally I would guess it's some type of contamination. If it is counterfeits I wonder what steps are being taken to prevent this, or protect the consumer. Maybe there is a higher concentration of people using supplements in Hawaii?. I'm interested in what the testing of the product(s) finds.
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    New information,

    http://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutbr.../ucm370849.htm

    Looks like Versa-1 might be gone soon also. Too bad, because I actually like the stuff. Still have a few bottles and gonna start a new one in a few weeks.
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    I'm wondering if they are thinking that "Aegeline" is causing the problem. It is common in all three products. Seems like they are just grasping at straws at this point....Waiting to the tests to come back from samples taken from patients.
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    It did nothing for me. I still have a full bottle. Are they going to give me my money back like the ad says? Or has that ship sailed?
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    Is PES getting one too?

    I feel like aegeline is in enhanced as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Is PES getting one too?

    I feel like aegeline is in enhanced as well.
    Probably not. I think usp just has the FDA scrutinizing everything they do now

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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post

    Probably not. I think usp just has the FDA scrutinizing everything they do now
    This is what most of this looks like to me at this point.


    Except for the obvious things, like people actually having non viral hepatitis.


    Most of the FDA action to this just seems like direct shots at USPlabs and nothing more. I doubt we'll ever know what caused this, but the FDA is sure to hit USP with everything they can.
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