The Problem With Studies

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  1. The Problem With Studies


    Here is a video I stumbled upon that shows an extremely large flaw within the scientific community in regards to trials on pharmaceuticals. As you can imagine it also more than likely happens with supplements. The video is just pharmaceutical specific.

    http://hightowerpharmacology.blogspo...dacre.html?m=1
    The Physique Biochemist
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  2. Great video
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  3. uh ohhh..Spaniard done went and pissed off half the forum!
    obviously you are aware, I have issues with these as well - especially when medical ones are then extrapolated as basis for "understanding" supplements
    silly

  4. Very good video. Always making data fit what they want. In every field; especially politics lol
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    uh ohhh..Spaniard done went and pissed off half the forum!
    obviously you are aware, I have issues with these as well - especially when medical ones are then extrapolated as basis for "understanding" supplements
    silly
    Hahaha! I wasn't attacking studies just helping to spread awareness
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position
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  6. I have seen that Ted presentation. Very interesting.
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  7. It's definitely a good video
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  8. It's a great video and it's present throughout the medical world. In the case of supplements, studies showing negative results are actually regularly posted (hence what we now know about ecdy, trib, arginine, etc)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    It's a great video and it's present throughout the medical world. In the case of supplements, studies showing negative results are actually regularly posted (hence what we now know about ecdy, trib, arginine, etc)
    That was actually my thought as well. Much less to lose if a supplement is bunk versus a agent that is being used for the treatment of cancer.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by aaronuconn View Post
    That was actually my thought as well. Much less to lose if a supplement is bunk versus a agent that is being used for the treatment of cancer.
    Yea but then you have to account for biases, who funded the studies, motives etc... not to mention substantial differences in funding
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  11. This is why this forum is a great resource real world information. I prefer a combination of scientific research and anecdotal feedback. One is not necessarily better than the other.

    Studies are often flawed or the population doesn't match our profile. We're often left with conclusions based on mice, older woman, cancer patients, diabetics, or if we're "lucky" college students that did leg extensions.

    On the other hand, a few bros can post placebo responses about the latest supplement.

    However, when we take it all together, the real truth starts to emerge. Especially when multiple studies start to show consistent results or many members post similar accounts.

  12. Live it. Don't read it.
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  13. Randomized controlled trials published in peer reviewed journals are sooo over rated! I only do what is intuitively obvious to me and refuse to consider anything else
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Randomized controlled trials published in peer reviewed journals are sooo over rated! I only do what is intuitively obvious to me and refuse to consider anything else
    I guess you didn't care for the video, no?
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Randomized controlled trials published in peer reviewed journals are sooo over rated! I only do what is intuitively obvious to me and refuse to consider anything else
    without someone else knowing exactly what is "intuitively obvious" to you, and not on your same wavelength, this would then equate to perfect example of your own bias, no?

    hence, any study you deem "intuitive and valid" and one you deem "worthless" would be anecdotal feedback, nothing more

  16. Quote Originally Posted by rob112 View Post
    I guess you didn't care for the video, no?
    My comment was more directed at the anti-science post from individuals that are without a doubt coming
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    without someone else knowing exactly what is "intuitively obvious" to you, and not on your same wavelength, this would then equate to perfect example of your own bias, no?

    hence, any study you deem "intuitive and valid" and one you deem "worthless" would be anecdotal feedback, nothing more
    No

    Intuitively obvious is, I look out over the ocean and see an edge therefore the earth is cube and I can fall off said edge or in a sports science perspective, I eat a meal every 3.5 hours and have a six pack so eating every 3.5 hours is how you get a sixpack.

    This is what I mean by saying intuitively obvious. These are assumptions based solely on what is (often visually) obvious to them.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Live it. Don't read it.
    I am extremely open to anecdotal feedback in terms of the fitness and supplement world so agree with you in part.

    This video is about the pharmaceutical industry. The option of 'living it' instead of 'reading it' would omit all scientific research and controlled studies on drugs created to enhance and extend lives.

    We can take anecdotal feedback on arginine but doing that in the medical world would be catastrophic lol.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I am extremely open to anecdotal feedback in terms of the fitness and supplement world so agree with you in part.

    This video is about the pharmaceutical industry. The option of 'living it' instead of 'reading it' would omit all scientific research and controlled studies on drugs created to enhance and extend lives.

    We can take anecdotal feedback on arginine but doing that in the medical world would be catastrophic lol.
    The key is finding the balance. Science is far from perfect but refusing to even consider it is naive at best
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Randomized controlled trials published in peer reviewed journals are sooo over rated! I only do what is intuitively obvious to me and refuse to consider anything else
    I see a lot in supplements and training that I do in the anti-vaccine and anti-GMO people. A lot of people seem to be OK trusting their health to a complete stranger on the internet, who has no training and no actual data to back them up, rather than peer-reviewed data and the physicians and scientists that present it.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    The key is finding the balance. Science is far from perfect but refusing to even consider it is naive at best
    well said
    balance, indeed..it is unfortunate this is not practiced by a very large segment of ppl who reside on this (and other) forums
    for the record: I am not anti-science; simply anti everything-science-and-nothing-else stance

  22. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    well said
    balance, indeed..it is unfortunate this is not practiced by a very large segment of ppl who reside on this (and other) forums
    for the record: I am not anti-science; simply anti everything-science-and-nothing-else stance
    What is an example of something else that is not science?
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    I see a lot in supplements and training that I do in the anti-vaccine and anti-GMO people. A lot of people seem to be OK trusting their health to a complete stranger on the internet, who has no training and no actual data to back them up, rather than peer-reviewed data and the physicians and scientists that present it.
    Join a paleo community and see how long before your head explodes.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    What is an example of something else that is not science?
    trick question?
    science has limitations, and will not help you understand everything, nor prove a quantity / quality absolute value
    it is really pretty simple concept..science (due to studies themselves and how such are presented) is flawed, more than it is accurate

  25. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    trick question?
    science has limitations, and will not help you understand everything, nor prove a quantity / quality absolute value
    it is really pretty simple concept..science (due to studies themselves and how such are presented) is flawed, more than it is accurate
    Not a trick question at all. You made a statement and I am asking you to clarify what you said.
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  26. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Not a trick question at all. You made a statement and I am asking you to clarify what you said.
    I would think it to be obvious..anecdotal feedback, real-world experience..things that cannot be dissected within the world of studies
    not something I really care to waste time further time discussing tbh..what my stance is, what your stance is - these are not going to change, due to debating the issue

  27. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    I would think it to be obvious..anecdotal feedback, real-world experience..things that cannot be dissected within the world of studies
    not something I really care to waste time further time discussing tbh..what my stance is, what your stance is - these are not going to change, due to debating the issue
    Actually they can be analyzed "within the world of studies". Saying that they cannot is a way to get out of having a discussion that involves science and it just plain lazy. And I am not looking to have a debate. Again. You made a statement and I asked for you to actually clarify that statement.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Actually they can be analyzed "within the world of studies". Saying that they cannot is a way to get out of having a discussion that involves science and it just plain lazy. And I am not looking to have a debate. Again. You made a statement and I asked for you to actually clarify that statement.
    I like lazy tho - it requires such little effort



    *(this can be quantified, thru scientific study, fyi)

  29. My intent for this thread was not to start an uproar. It was to further educate people that studies are not the end all be all and a definitive answer, nothing more. Studies are an extremely important part of the puzzle but not a final answer.

    As Josh put it in another thread, approach everything as a critical thinker, including studies. Anabolic Minds is lucky to have so many bright individuals however people take advice on here as fact instead of remaining objective about information given and conducting their own research like Aleksander said.
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    My intent for this thread was not to start an uproar. It was to further educate people that studies are not the end all be all and a definitive answer, nothing more. Studies are an extremely important part of the puzzle but not a final answer.

    As Josh put it in another thread, approach everything as a critical thinker, including studies. Anabolic Minds is lucky to have so many bright individuals however people take advice on here as fact instead of remaining objective about information given and conducting their own research like Aleksander said.
    uproar
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