47 year old male with low T...need help - AnabolicMinds.com

47 year old male with low T...need help

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    47 year old male with low T...need help


    I posted this in the Over 35 section but then realized that main section there is Anabolics and I'm looking for natty...

    As stated, 47, low T (last checked it was 200ish...can't find the lab sheet). I was prescribed Androgel and was tested 3 months later with no increase in Test numbers. I may have been applying it wrong (rubbed into skin till dry). Unfortunately, I no longer have insurance so I can't really get the Androgel. I was on it for a total of about 4-5 months. Also, I have no libido, occasional bouts of ED (had cialis for that and still happened a couple times), and I am very tired all the time. I definitely have problems sleeping (tried Ambien but it worked one night then after no go and I woke up loopy).
    I want to try the natty way to help me with all my issues. My diet is good and I have been losing weight progressively but no change in the above (I went from 217 lbs to 190 lbs now)...still have a little bit of a belly (waist is 35" and I am 5' 11"). I've done tons of research and I am more confused than ever.
    For libido I the following may benefit: (correct me if wrong)
    Maca
    Mucana Puriens
    Longjack
    Tribulus
    Goji berry for ED benefit
    Citrulline Malate for ED
    Horny Goat Weed
    Korean Ginseng
    AI Perform

    Test Boosters:
    Bioforge
    Activate Xtreme
    Triazole
    DAA
    Titanium...just to name a few

    Estro control:
    Erase

    I've read that HGH boosters help as well and are good for sleep.

    I'm having the damndest time putting something to gether that may fit my needs and I'm asking the great community here for some very needed help.

    I know I'm missing some things as well.
    If you need anymore details I will be happy to provide them and thank you all for any help you can give me.

  2. Banned
    AnabolicJuich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    112
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Erase pro. D-Pol, And Endosurge Turbo. no more no less! can't go wrong with that stack for your needs.
    you may also pop in some Forskolin though .
  3. Banned
    bakerwil's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    749
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Considering your situation, I would use Intimidate DAA - you take it before bed and I found it worked great as a test booster (libido etc..) and even better for a deep sleep (many other reviews will a test to this). Maximum of 8 weeks and then a 4 week break. During the break and if your sleep starts to waver, you could use as GH booster product like Rem 8.0, HGH up, iForce liGHts out and others like Finaflex G8 or IGF 2.
    •   
       

  4. mw1
    Sponsor
    mw1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,731
    Rep Power
    3264744

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    For libido- Trib is cheap and effective. I would add in DAA(which is also inexpensive). PCT Assist Is another product that could benefit you- especially with lethargy

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    Cycle Assist $23.50 shipped http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...edge-labs.html
  5. Senior Member
    Aleksandar37's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,693
    Rep Power
    830342

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    Considering your situation, I would use Intimidate DAA - you take it before bed and I found it worked great as a test booster (libido etc..) and even better for a deep sleep (many other reviews will a test to this). Maximum of 8 weeks and then a 4 week break. During the break and if your sleep starts to waver, you could use as GH booster product like Rem 8.0, HGH up, iForce liGHts out and others like Finaflex G8 or IGF 2.
    Intimidate is not DAA
    ***PES Representative***
    http://pescience.com/insider
    http://selectprotein.com
  6. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    3370560

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Well test levels of 200 is low, which you know but i'm not sure if DAA based products will help in this reagrd. Testosterone can be increased through many paths and also can be lowered due to many reasons.

    DAA works through the stAR mechanism (which functional loss of will cause Low T) and therefore may not increase your testosterone levels. Its cheap enough that it is worth a shot, but the TRT option should be considered for any dramatic changes in test levels.

    Tribulus is also cheap and works well for libido and Macuna containing products may also help you with other issues.

    For sleep, try melatonin and ZMA (also macuna will work).
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable
  7. Banned
    bakerwil's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    749
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Intimidate is not DAA
    Why is DAA the one and only ingredient then. What am I missing here?
  8. New Member
    LMR01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    34
    Rep Power
    9497

    Reputation

    would be helpful to see other tests... in particular LH, e2 etc

    but...

    USP Test Powder for 4 weeks then more blood tests to check progress

    The viagra might help if taken every day. A recent clinical trial has shown improved TT and FT with longer term use. > talk to your md about this tho
  9. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    I wish I could talk to the DR about this, but I have no insurance right now sadly. That's why I asked and have been doing research into different methods to try and get myself back to a somewhat normal lifestyle. Please keep the info coming guys, I really appreciate it.
  10. Board Supporter
    89coupe's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  188 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    37
    Posts
    157
    Rep Power
    530

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    I wish I could talk to the DR about this, but I have no insurance right now sadly. That's why I asked and have been doing research into different methods to try and get myself back to a somewhat normal lifestyle. Please keep the info coming guys, I really appreciate it.
    It would be cheaper to pay out of pocket for a visit to your family doctor and ask him to prescribe injectable instead of gel. Using supplements to boost you from the 200 range on a regular bases is not only gonna be expensive but after long term use infective. If you have a SAMs club around you can get
    test cyp 200mg x 10ml for $60. Even If you do 200mg a week which is a high dose for TRT that's 10 weeks for $60. Most doctors only have you checked every 6 months and if you explain your situation most will work with you.
  11. New Member
    haritec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    37528

    Reputation

    This is a long post - if you want the summary:

    Look into Chlomid - seriously. If your balls and pituatary are still capable of working properly - Chlomid can dramatically raise testosterone levels with minimal side effects if the dose rate is kept low. Research seems to indicate it is safe for long term use at low dose rates.

    I am a 53 yr old male - who had simlar problems. Low testosterone - did the full gamet of testing- no observable problems with LH FSH thyroid etc. I could write for hours about this - but spent about a year and a half trying many of the products sold on fitness websites to increase test (Tribulus, longjack, DAA, Fenugreek, Forskoli etc) with no substantial effect. I can post labs over several years if one is interested.

    In late December 2012, I recieved some generic chlomid from an online pharmacy - the first two I tried never delivered - the third one did and has subsequently been very reliable. Generic Chlomid is cheaper to take than any of the supplements listed above. In just six weeks, my total, free and bioavailable testosterone went up by over 70 %, taking 25 mg chlomid every other day.

    Name:  Results.jpg
Views: 385
Size:  92.5 KB

    Here were my thoughts on the results ( copying this from another bulletin board I posted on)

    1) Pituitary seems to be working as the chlomid drove up LH and FH
    2) Balls seem to be working as Testosterone and Free Testosterone went up 70 %
    3) Estrogen getting pretty high
    4) Thyroid is OK - actually getting better as tests proceed (added iodized salt back into diet and taking thyroid glandular)
    5) Sudden sharp drop in AM cortisol is disconcerting - wonder if it was side effect of chlomid

    I increased the dose of chlomid to 25 mg every day - and retested in April. HEre is what I posted on other log. Big thing is my Testosterone was up to top of reference range and Bio-available had increased dramatically.

    Just a brief update - been on Chlomid for over three months now. Somethings going very well - others need a bit of work yet. I have been avoiding adding an anti-aromatase but looks like I may not be able to get around it. Recent labs

    Cortisol 688 (range 200- 690 nmol/L)

    Way better than last test result - may have been an anomaly as is consistent with previous test from December.

    Total Testosterone 28.3 (range 8.0 - 29.0 nmol/L) Well can't complain

    Estradiol 184 (range 0 - 160 pmol/L ) This one I need to work on yet
    Progesterone 3.7 (range 0 - 3.0 nmol/L)

    Free Testosterone 451 (range 175 - 700 pmol/L) More than double the numbers I used to get
    SHBG 60 (range 10 - 55 nmol/L) would love to see this down - but maybe because of high estrogen so anti-aromatase?
    DHEA-S 8.4 (range 2.2 - 13.0 umol/L)
    BioAvail Testosterone 9.2 (range 4.0 to 16.0) NICE- was below reference range in October

    Both Bio Avail and Free Testosterone will of course improve if I can get SHBG down.

    Here is a major problem - first time ever tested for Vit D and I take about 3000 IUs daily

    Vitamin D 80.5 (range 80 - 200)

    Maybe I am a poor absorber - have added a second source (pills in the morning - liquid Vit D in evening ) and taking 6-7000 IU and am going to see how it goes.

    All in all - I am very pleased with being on Chlomid. I upped my dose in February from 25 mg EOD to 25 mg daily. I am going to cut back to 25 EOD again and see where I stabilize - figuring the lower dose rate will reduce side effects. Going to try some natural anti-aromatase first before trying other approaches.

    I feel better - am more positive, good morning wood, can concentrate better and am seeing some body recomposition that is favorable. So far - the experiment for me has been a success - your mileage may vary. I figure for a 53 yr old guy to get his total T up to 800 with just a SERM is pretty good results.

    The high estrogen numbers and fact I had hit the top of scale on Total T made me cut back the chlomid again - so since that time I have been taking 25 mg on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. I have added in 2 pills daily of PES Erase to try to lower estrogen for the last 3-4 weeks. I feel great and have the best morning erections I have had for years - which is usually a good sign that testosterone and estrogen are in balance. I am going to see my doctor and get more bloodwork done in about 10 days.


    There are a number of good studies online about Chlomid and long term use in Men for low testosterone - learn to use pubmed is well worth it. Anyways - here is info from one - Title says it all.

    Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism.

    Moskovic DJ, Katz DJ, Akhavan A, Park K, Mulhall JP.


    Source

    Sexual & Reproductive Medicine Program, Urology Service, Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY, USA.


    Abstract


    OBJECTIVE:

    To assess the efficacy and safety of long-term clomiphene citrate (CC) therapy in symptomatic patients with hypogonadism (HG).

    PATIENTS AND METHODS:

    Serum T, oestradiol and luteinizing hormone (LH) were measured in patients who were treated with CC for over 12 months. Additionally, bone densitometry (BD) results were collected for all patients. Demographic, comorbidity, treatment and Androgen Deficiency in Aging Men (ADAM) score data were also recorded. Comparison was made between baseline and post-treatment variables, and multivariable analysis was conducted to define predictors of successful response to CC. The main outcome measures were predictors of response and long-term results with long-term CC therapy in hypogonadal patients.

    RESULTS:

    The 46 patients (mean age 44 years) had baseline serum testosterone (T) levels of 228 ng/dL. Follow-up T levels were 612 ng/dL at 1 year, 562 ng/dL at 2 years, and 582 ng/dL at 3 years (P < 0.001). Mean femoral neck and lumbar spine BD scores improved significantly. ADAM scores (and responses) fell from a baseline of 7 to a nadir of 3 after 1 year. No adverse events were reported by any patients.

    CONCLUSIONS:

    Clomiphene citrate is an effective long-term therapy for HG in appropriate patients. The drug raises T levels substantially in addition to improving other manifestations of HG such as osteopenia/osteoporosis and ADAM symptoms.
  12. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    haritec and 89coupe...that is some really good information and I appreciate it very much. It seems that I may have to bite the bullet and just pay out of pocket. Maybe I should pay the $300 and go to privatemedlabs and just get the tests done. Then at least I have the results and then figure out how to get Rx/Doctor...I will have insurance again in about a month (I'm in one of those 90 day probation periods with a new employer).

    What can I do about my sleep issues that stated in the original post? I will NOT go down the prescription again for that since I had such a bad time before with that.
  13. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Well test levels of 200 is low, which you know but i'm not sure if DAA based products will help in this reagrd. Testosterone can be increased through many paths and also can be lowered due to many reasons.

    DAA works through the stAR mechanism (which functional loss of will cause Low T) and therefore may not increase your testosterone levels. Its cheap enough that it is worth a shot, but the TRT option should be considered for any dramatic changes in test levels.

    Tribulus is also cheap and works well for libido and Macuna containing products may also help you with other issues.

    For sleep, try melatonin and ZMA (also macuna will work).
    Good info as well Jiigzz...I may have to try that for sleep, although I'm a little leary of the melatonin...I've heard the HGH supps can vastlt improve sleep quality..any merit to this? Any other suggestions?
  14. New Member
    haritec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    37528

    Reputation

    Fixing your testosterone issues may help your sleep - it has been shown to do so.
    Minimizing caffeine helps.
    Following a regular sleep schedule (same time to bed and to rise 7 days a week) helps
    Get your biological clock in order - make sure room pitch black when you sleep, ear plugs if necessary, eye cover if necessary - get in sunlight first thing in the morning.
    Take melatonin at night.
    L-Dopa has been shown to help as a natural supplement.
    Meditation / Yoga Nidra before bed to relax the mind
    If you want to to pay the cash - spend $200 on a Zeo Sleep Monitor - they have a whole program for free to improve your sleep quality.

    Rather than PES Erase - consider this product - AD-3 PCT from Nutraplanet (currently onsale for $30) Has same active ingredient as PES Erase - plus L-Dopa plush Milk Thistle for liver support. BUT - you don't know if you have an estrogen problem so watch out for dry joints etc - or wait and try this with Chlomid - Chlomid will increase estrogen. BTW - I got 100 50 mg tabs of Chlomid for like $70. Since I am now taking 1/2 tablet on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays - that is over a year supply.
  15. New Member
    haritec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    37528

    Reputation

    Never found an HGH supp that worked. Best thing for HGH in my opinion

    Squats
    Deadlifts
    Bench Press
    Rows
  16. Elite Member
    kbayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6,025
    Rep Power
    4446274

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    Why is DAA the one and only ingredient then. What am I missing here?
    Intimidate is NMDA. Different then DAA.
    PES Representative
    http://www.pescience.com/insider
    http://www.selectprotein.com
  17. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    Can't taking Melatonin ED screw you up sleep wise? Oh, the comment about the HGH stuff was just for sleep not necessarily about increasing HGH. Btw, I take in zero caffeine...no coffee, tea, or soda. Room is blacked out, only sound is a fan so I don't here stuff from outside. Go to bed about the same time ED. I get out of bed (notice I said out of bed and not awake) at around 6:40 AM. I do not get to spend much time in sunlight as my job is IT and I am indoors all day. I will hold off on any supplements for Test/Estrogen till I get labs. I'm just being impatient, tired of being tired of being tired and having a not so great mental state of being for so long. I'm willing to try anything supplement wise for the sleep and better well being. I'm willing to bet that I have vitamin and mineral deficiencies since all I take ED is a Centrum Silver. My meals are as follows (if this helps): Breakfast is 3 eggs (was 1 yolk, rest whites, today started with 3 eggs with yolks) just started having bacon with this for some fats, and a very small bowl of multi-grain cereal with lactose free milk (probably should do whole milk)...10AM some almonds...lunch is several slices of turkey on one slice of multi-grain bread with a red leaf lettuce salad and some vinagrette and some walnuts/cashews...3PM some more almonds...6PM dinner is usually chicken breast or fish (mostly chicken breast) with a green veggie and some more walnuts/cashews...I have removed rice and starchy stuff from dinners recently.
  18. Banned
    AnabolicJuich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    112
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Intimidate is NMDA. Different then DAA.
    How so?
  19. New Member
    haritec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    37528

    Reputation

    Sounds like you are doing most of the right things right. Diet looks pretty damn good and clean.

    I feel for you brother - I started on the search for why I didn't feel so great at about the same age and it was a frustrating process and lots of so-called professionals were not much help. Still not where I want to be - but hormone numbers are better at least.

    Some thoughts - could you force yourself to get up a bit earlier and squeeze in a short morning run or bike ride outside ? I TRY to do this - fail often - but when I can it seems to help to energize me for the morning - and make sure I am tired enough at night to get to sleep quickly.

    Best of luck on your journey - you are on the right path.
  20. Elite Member
    kbayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    6,025
    Rep Power
    4446274

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicJuich View Post
    How so?
    Intimidate or SNS DAA?

    Coop states the differences in this thread.
    PES Representative
    http://www.pescience.com/insider
    http://www.selectprotein.com
  21. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    I don't have a problem falling asleep normally. I tend to wake up during the night a couple times and then always before my alarm goes off. I even cover my clock so when I awake during the night and before alarm, I don't see what time it is. Also, when I have these wake-ups, I tend to feel like I'm hot (temperature wise). I go to bed well before the 8 hour window and still never get 8...I would guess somewhere between 5-7 hours. I don't have sleep apnea either.
    Any ideas of what might help this?
  22. New Member
    haritec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    29
    Rep Power
    37528

    Reputation

    Well - I think others have said it already - but you probably should get a full hormone panel done. I don't have enough posts or reputation or whatever, so I can't seem to post a link. However if you google LEF Male Hormone Panel - you can get a link to how to get one done for $300 but you will have to find someone to take the blood sample. Not cheap - but an extremely comprehensive test.

    Body temperature issues and fluctuations can come from a lot of things, Adrenal issues, Thyroid issues, infection etc. I know if I have been trying to gain some weight so eating extra calories daily - my metabolisom goes up and I am hot as hell at night.

    Get a good thermometer and google adrenal body temperature. There is a test you can do yourself just with a thermometer to get a crude evaluation of whether you have some degree of adrenal fatigue. Also, a blood or saliva test for cortisol can tell a lot - especially the saliva test that can be ordered online - but it will cost a few bucks. Again - google for saliva hormone test or check out ZRTLAB.COM

    I have real issues sleeping in a warm bed - causes problems on the home front as I prefer to sleep in the basement where it is cold rather than with sig other. Seems to have gotten worse as I got older.

    Thyroid issues are another one that are know to cause body temperature issues. If you use no iodized salt you may be low in iodine which can cause thyroid issues. My thyroid numbers seemed to get better after I dumped the all natural salt my wife was buying and got some good old fashioned iodized salt.

    Vitamin D is key as well - get in the sunlight as much as you possibly can and take a D Supplement. Almost all north americans are low in Vitamin D. Vitamin D is very important for both Testosterone and Thyroid funciton.

    Both adrenal and thyroid issues can compound testosterone issues so it is good to look into these possiblities as well. Trust me - I know how hard this is cause even if you have medical coverage - the doctors look at you like there is nothing "wrong" with you and so no need to test. I was very lucky to find a guy who is really into testing and although he hasn't gotten me on to the supplements that really helped - I could explore and find some things of my own that helped and see the results in blood tests.

    Speaking of wives - stress is one of the worse things for your hormones. Already sounds like you have job stress - carefully assess other stress sources in your life and see which you can reduce or deal with better. Weightlifting for me is good - I forget about my stress while lifting and it raises some good hormones.
  23. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    Yup I plan on getting a full panel done once my insurance kicks in (right a round a month away). I think the primary thing I need to tackle is getting more rest. My job isn't really stressful believe it or not..I have a knack for solving IT problems fairly quickly so I don't get to bothered by stuff at the job. So I think I will get some ZMA or something along those lines to help and maybe some melatonin (will research more).
  24. Banned
    bakerwil's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    749
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Yup I plan on getting a full panel done once my insurance kicks in (right a round a month away). I think the primary thing I need to tackle is getting more rest. My job isn't really stressful believe it or not..I have a knack for solving IT problems fairly quickly so I don't get to bothered by stuff at the job. So I think I will get some ZMA or something along those lines to help and maybe some melatonin (will research more).
    Sleep is King - once you get that nailed to at least 6-7 hours of restful sleep each night, you will see many other positive changes.
  25. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,203
    Rep Power
    3370560

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Well melatonin is good for sleep issues. People tend to avoid it because it is a hormone produced by the body and they fear that supplementing with it may cause downregulation of their own production, but it can be useful:

    http://www.saferx.co.nz/full/melatonin.pdf
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable
  26. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    jiigzz...some things that stood out in that article:
    "Melatonin used in excessive doses can lead to receptor desensitization and exacerbate the condition that is being treated."
    "Melatonin may cause minor transient adverse effects such as headache, insomnia, rash, upset stomach, and nightmares"...Insomnia!!
    Short-term use (up to 13 weeks)...so what do I do after this...I don't want to go "backwards" so to speak and not be able to sleep good again.

    So you suggest just melatonin or some other things as well? Please let me know.
  27. Elite Member
    Spaniard's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,929
    Rep Power
    3776837

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    jiigzz...some things that stood out in that article:
    "Melatonin used in excessive doses can lead to receptor desensitization and exacerbate the condition that is being treated."
    "Melatonin may cause minor transient adverse effects such as headache, insomnia, rash, upset stomach, and nightmares"...Insomnia!!
    Short-term use (up to 13 weeks)...so what do I do after this...I don't want to go "backwards" so to speak and not be able to sleep good again.

    So you suggest just melatonin or some other things as well? Please let me know.
    "Used in excessive doses"
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
  28. New Member
    lilfitprincess's Avatar
    Stats
    5'4"  115 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    67
    Rep Power
    303522

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    "Used in excessive doses"
    Oh crap! What's considered "excessive"?
    Lecheek Nutrition
  29. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by lilfitprincess View Post
    Oh crap! What's considered "excessive"?
    That's what I want to know as well.
  30. Elite Member
    Spaniard's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,929
    Rep Power
    3776837

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    If you're worried about it start with the lowest possible dose. You can try to extrapolate what may or may not happen to you from studies all day long but the bottom line is until you personally try out you'll never know. Melatonin has data showing no dependency issues, no negative issues or side effects at normal dosages. OTOH there are also studies showing it to have no effect whatsoever...

    It's good to be aware by reading up on studies but there are so many variables to consider that you'll more than likely stir yourself into a frenzy. Everything in the environment that surrounds you has a study that shows it having negative effects on humans.
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
  31. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,415
    Rep Power
    85123

    Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Well melatonin is good for sleep issues. People tend to avoid it because it is a hormone produced by the body and they fear that supplementing with it may cause downregulation of their own production, but it can be useful:
    my .02 here:
    if you are producing normal levels of melatonin, supplementing with it is worthless..

    if you have deficiency, then small amounts (1-5mg) can be very useful
    I have seen 10mg/night bandied about on this forum by some sources..excessive amount
    never anything close to that needed except very short-term to correct immediate imbalance

    melatonin and zinc have got to be the 2 most overused, unneeded supplements used ignorantly by the masses
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com
  32. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,415
    Rep Power
    85123

    Reputation Reputation

    as for sleep: look into G8
    boost gh levels and get deep REM sleep all in one pop
    Redefine Nutrition (FinaFlex) Finaflex G8 (20 servings): Discount Finaflex G8 Supplements

    for test boost: if you are low-t (esp due to age), no natty product really going to help here to actually "boost" levels
    arimistane I saw mentioned earlier; that is not going to help boost test levels per se, it will simply skew the testosterone/estrogen ratios therefore allowing test to be used more efficiently and dimming the estrogen in the body

    that said: a very effective natty 1-2 punch is going to be our PureTest + PCT Black
    Redefine Nutrition (FinaFlex) The PCT Revolution Black Bundle Stack (LIMITED TIME): Discount The PCT Revolution Black Bundle Stack Supplements
    that is one SMOKING deal btw....

    alternatively, look into dhea levels..very simple solution for the 35+y/o male
    we have some mild, safe & effective entry-level hormonal level products that may interest you as well, but these are not really considered "natural" ways to go..1-Andro however would be a good fit imo
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com
  33. Elite Member
    Montego1's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  236 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    8,548
    Rep Power
    7326889

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Another good thing about G8 is that the 20 servings actually is about 40 since most people like half a scoop. POW! Two for one

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
  34. Elite Member
    Spaniard's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,929
    Rep Power
    3776837

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I don't know man I wouldn't necessarily recommend something that could quite possibly make his T go any lower than it already is...

    OP, I'd steer clear of any hormones unless doing so in a TRT or HRT protocol. Choosing to do so may negatively impact your levels even further.
    Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~ http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/253076-spaniards-coliseum-featuring.html~http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/220023-valdez-goes-back-29.html
  35. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,415
    Rep Power
    85123

    Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    I don't know man I wouldn't necessarily recommend something that could quite possibly make his T go any lower than it already is...

    OP, I'd steer clear of any hormones unless doing so in a TRT or HRT protocol. Choosing to do so may negatively impact your levels even further.
    problem here being, he has already tried TRT, to no avail

    don't think supplemeting with dhea-based compounds is gonna be a worry for what you indicate
    correcting dhea production in the body is a solution for a great many ppl looking to boost the body ability to produce test

    if I misunderstand your post, apologies in advance

    none of our products - with proper use to directions - are going to cause any worries of lowering actual test production..
    but thanks for your concern

    full blood panel and doc oversight is best of all options here, I make no bones about it
    he asks for supplement help here....
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com
  36. New Member
    lilfitprincess's Avatar
    Stats
    5'4"  115 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    67
    Rep Power
    303522

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    If you're worried about it start with the lowest possible dose. You can try to extrapolate what may or may not happen to you from studies all day long but the bottom line is until you personally try out you'll never know. Melatonin has data showing no dependency issues, no negative issues or side effects at normal dosages. OTOH there are also studies showing it to have no effect whatsoever...

    It's good to be aware by reading up on studies but there are so many variables to consider that you'll more than likely stir yourself into a frenzy. Everything in the environment that surrounds you has a study that shows it having negative effects on humans.
    Thanks for the info! As always you have been very helpful!
    Lecheek Nutrition
  37. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    The TRT I did was Androgel and I may have been applying it incorrectly (rubbing into skin until dry is how I did it...my understanding now is that you apply and don't rub in, instead just let it dry...I dunno)...still, there was no improvement from initial labs and labs taken several months later (although I think I was only tested for Total Test and Free Test). Once labs are done, maybe they will give me the patch (if there is one) or injections based on my try with Androgel. Right now I don't think PH's would be a good idea.
  38. New Member
    ws65's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    156
    Rep Power
    45006

    Reputation

    BTW, do I need to "cycle" melatonin?
  39. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,415
    Rep Power
    85123

    Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    BTW, do I need to "cycle" melatonin?
    I certainly would advise such
    but - just like a host of other issues, you will get different answers to this one as well I am sure
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com
  40. Diamond Member
    thebigt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    27,761
    Rep Power
    10751402

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    The TRT I did was Androgel and I may have been applying it incorrectly (rubbing into skin until dry is how I did it...my understanding now is that you apply and don't rub in, instead just let it dry...I dunno)...still, there was no improvement from initial labs and labs taken several months later (although I think I was only tested for Total Test and Free Test). Once labs are done, maybe they will give me the patch (if there is one) or injections based on my try with Androgel. Right now I don't think PH's would be a good idea.
    don't be too hard on yourself, i have been on androgel around a year now...i did a ton of research and it appears that there are quite a few [non-responders] to androgel. personally i guess i am one of the lucky ones....but in no way do i doubt your less than stellar results, apparently there are good many of you who haven't gotten the desired effect from androgel.

    make sure your doc knows that this [non-responding] to androgel does occur, and hopefully he or she will work with you to find something that does work for you. medicine is not [or at least shouldn't be one size fits all!!!



    good luck....low T is a pain in the arse, but very treatable!!
    BPS REP-DERMACRINE/ENDOSURGE....COMBUSTION/DCP 2.0
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. 25 year old male with low Test, Clomid?
    By krr61186 in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-07-2012, 10:20 PM
  2. Low Testosterone - 25 Year Old Male (With test results)
    By phayzeone in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-06-2011, 04:08 PM
  3. 25 Year Old Male - Low T - Need Help
    By zippybing in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-03-2008, 11:08 AM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-07-2008, 09:39 PM
  5. 23 year old male - why is my DHEA-S so low?
    By superone in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 02-25-2008, 01:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in