Pros and Cons of DAA?? - AnabolicMinds.com

Pros and Cons of DAA??

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    Pros and Cons of DAA??


    i've got some daa that will be expiring soon, and so i just went ahead and started it.

    however, i'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it because of my anxiety issues (still on 5mg ED of lexapro for it as i try to ween off of 10mg) as i heard it can cause some serious psychological problems for certain people prone to these types of things. i've also heard people claim it messed with their blood pressure, and that's something i have to watch as well. finally, there's always the back and forth of it being neurotoxic and bad for your nmda receptors, etc, although i've yet to see any conclusive data one way or the other.

    I guess what i'm asking is, have those of you that run it seen worthwhile gains? i mean, it just seems hard for me to believe even a 40% increase in test would equate to gains in the gym, unless maybe you were in the borderline-low area and it bumped you up to normal. reading reviews, it seems that most people that like it take it because of a sense of well being, increased libido, etc. i'm just wondering if it really has THAT big of an effect on strength/size gains. some dude i know claims to have lost 10 lbs of body fat and gained strength on it, which i don't believe, although a mutual friend/workout partner said his strength does go up A LOT on it.

    so what's your opinion? are the gains (size and strength ONLY) worth while? am i wrong in thinking that a 40% increase isn't all that much, and you'd be hard to notice significant gains with that?

    thanks for your inputs, guys

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    i guess my feeling is also that with these new types of supplements coming out left and right, we never really know what types of side effects they may pose for us down the road. so you've kinda got to weigh that against the gains as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    i've got some daa that will be expiring soon, and so i just went ahead and started it.

    however, i'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it because of my anxiety issues (still on 5mg ED of lexapro for it as i try to ween off of 10mg) as i heard it can cause some serious psychological problems for certain people prone to these types of things. i've also heard people claim it messed with their blood pressure, and that's something i have to watch as well. finally, there's always the back and forth of it being neurotoxic and bad for your nmda receptors, etc, although i've yet to see any conclusive data one way or the other.

    I guess what i'm asking is, have those of you that run it seen worthwhile gains? i mean, it just seems hard for me to believe even a 40% increase in test would equate to gains in the gym, unless maybe you were in the borderline-low area and it bumped you up to normal. reading reviews, it seems that most people that like it take it because of a sense of well being, increased libido, etc. i'm just wondering if it really has THAT big of an effect on strength/size gains. some dude i know claims to have lost 10 lbs of body fat and gained strength on it, which i don't believe, although a mutual friend/workout partner said his strength does go up A LOT on it.

    so what's your opinion? are the gains (size and strength ONLY) worth while? am i wrong in thinking that a 40% increase isn't all that much, and you'd be hard to notice significant gains with that?

    thanks for your inputs, guys
    40% is very significant to your sex drive and your gains. If your friend was 30+ and this was his first test booster I believe it. After all....strength is mostly cns and mass doesn't always come with increased strength. Believe it or not you can become stronger in a cut but that's another topic for another day.

    The only reason its popular is because it works so well with human studies too. Not really any advertising done on daa except what's advertised on the independent product.it may be new but its proven . *looks at kreaklyn with a mean glare.*
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    I took a month cycle. Had pre and posy bloods done to see if it would change anything. My Total test and free test went from 555ng/dl to 467ng/dl total, 16.9pg/ml to 12.1pg/ml (9-26 ref.) I stacked it with Erase and stinging nettle. Did nothing for me. Really dissapointed.
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    ive cycled daa on 2 different occasions, i also felt it did nothing....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    I took a month cycle. Had pre and posy bloods done to see if it would change anything. My Total test and free test went from 555ng/dl to 467ng/dl total, 16.9pg/ml to 12.1pg/ml (9-26 ref.) I stacked it with Erase and stinging nettle. Did nothing for me. Really dissapointed.
    What kind did you run? and what was your diet like? oh and when you took both these tests was it first thing in the AM before eating and were you fasted?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    ive cycled daa on 2 different occasions, i also felt it did nothing....
    what kind and what was your diet like?
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    yeah, it just sounds really hit or miss. my friend was 25, which i know is a decent age to start, but i wouldn't think he'd see THOSE results at that age.

    i'm just wondering if the strength/mass gains are enough to warrant continuing with my trial of this product. obviously, most people would say, "just try it and quit if you notice any negative psychological effects, etc", but the negative reviews i've read seem to indicate that those effects last long after they discontinued use (not to say that's the norm for everyone).

    i'm more or less trying to weigh the pro's and con's to see if it's worth jumping into a 4-6 week cycle of, especially since so many people have reported liking for reasons OTHER than bodybuilding, and because of my predisposition to things such as anxiety, HBP, gyno (not sure if i mentioned that one, lol, but yeah)
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    What kind did you run? and what was your diet like?
    My diet is solid. I even increased my calories to 3500 from 3000. Didn't gain any but a little but in strength. I took AI sports sodium DAA. I have a log on bb.com search DAA+Erase bloods. Under this same name.
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    Both my bloods wrre taken AM. Only ten mintues apart... look at my log on bB.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    yeah, it just sounds really hit or miss. my friend was 25, which i know is a decent age to start, but i wouldn't think he'd see THOSE results at that age.

    i'm just wondering if the strength/mass gains are enough to warrant continuing with my trial of this product. obviously, most people would say, "just try it and quit if you notice any negative psychological effects, etc", but the negative reviews i've read seem to indicate that those effects last long after they discontinued use (not to say that's the norm for everyone).

    i'm more or less trying to weigh the pro's and con's to see if it's worth jumping into a 4-6 week cycle of, especially since so many people have reported liking for reasons OTHER than bodybuilding, and because of my predisposition to things such as anxiety, HBP, gyno (not sure if i mentioned that one, lol, but yeah)
    I would say if you have it use it...the sides are very mild at worse case. I really do not believe the hype about gyno from DAA if your worried run Erase with it I have blood showing that will lower your Estro even if you are on TRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    Both my bloods wrre taken AM. Only ten mintues apart... look at my log on bB.com
    I am banned from BB.com I talk about the dreaded prohormones.... but were they fasted and what was your diet put up a link or PM me one ill try to read it.


    and do not get me wrong I am not doubting you here I am simply looking to understand why you would seem to not respond to DAA I myself have blood work done often and have shown 190nd/dl increase on daa now mind you there is a normal fluctuation in a day and diet influences test levels greatly.
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    yeah, im on erase, 1 cap per day (working my way up)i just don't usually get excited about supplements, because they usually do absolutely nothing for me. the ONLY thing i notice a difference with is food, obviously haha. but yeah, took erase before and didn't notice anything (not even the sore joints), but i'm taking it now just to counteract any possible estrogenic sides from the daa.i'm more worried about the possibility of it destroying nmda receptors and all that, haha. i mean, in all seriousness, this is a relatively new and definitely un-studied product; i just dont know about it because of how it works/its neuro effects.
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    sorry missed the first of the two posts ill go look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    I am banned from BB.com I talk about the dreaded prohormones.... but were they fasted and what was your diet put up a link or PM me one ill try to read it.


    and do not get me wrong I am not doubting you here I am simply looking to understand why you would seem to not respond to DAA I myself have blood work done often and have shown 190nd/dl increase on daa now mind you there is a normal fluctuation in a day and diet influences test levels greatly.
    i guess that's kind of what i'm getting at... as fluctuations don't seem to make much of a difference, my theory was that the 40% increase wouldn't make a whole lot of difference either (at least not enough to make it worth the risk of sides... just for me, personally)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    i guess that's kind of what i'm getting at... as fluctuations don't seem to make much of a difference, my theory was that the 40% increase wouldn't make a whole lot of difference either (at least not enough to make it worth the risk of sides... just for me, personally)

    Oh well the question of it changing your body composition vs diet alone doubtful....it may give someone the drive to make a change but I would not expect more then that or a great addition to pct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    Both my bloods wrre taken AM. Only ten mintues apart... look at my log on bB.com
    You are not on "Cyclosporin" by chance are you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k
    I am on immune suppressant drugs and antibiotics.
    ncbi.nlm.nihgov/pubmed/1935794
    Cyclosporin-mediated depression of luteinizing hormone receptors and heme biosynthesis in rat testes: a possible mechanism for decrease in serum testosterone.AbstractThe toxic side-effects of the immunosuppressive drug cyclosporin (CsA) include testicular dysfunction and a decline in circulating testosterone. However, mechanisms for the consistently observed CsA-mediated depression of serum testosterone levels are unclear because of conflicting reports concerning circulating gonadotropin levels and incomplete studies of intratesticular steroidogenesis. To elucidate these mechanisms, endocrine-regulated testicular steroidogenesis and heme metabolic parameters were studied in male rats given sc injections of either 25 or 40 mg/kg.day CsA for 6 days and then killed on the seventh day. Consistent with earlier reports, CsA treatment dramatically suppressed serum testosterone levels (less than 20% of control at both CsA doses). Additionally, the intratesticular testosterone content declined with the higher CsA dose. Serum LH and FSH levels were elevated up to 2- to 4-fold after the higher CsA treatment regimen. Measurement of decreases in testicular receptors for LH revealed for the first time that CsA treatment significantly reduced the ability of the testes to respond to normal or elevated circulating levels of LH. In animals receiving higher dose of the drug, cytochrome P-450-dependent mitochondrial cholesterol side-chain cleavage activity, which is the rate-limiting step in steroidogenesis, was markedly reduced to a mere 30% of the control value. Additionally, the activity of the microsomal cytochrome P-450-dependent 17 alpha-hydroxylase was decreased to less than half of the control value. Biotransformation of the prototype drug, benzo(a)pyrene, as well as microsomal cytochrome P450 levels declined significantly after the higher CsA dose, suggesting that CsA has an adverse affect on testicular cytochromes P-450 in general. In addition, CsA treatment altered heme metabolic parameters; significant increases in the activity of uroporphyrinogen-I synthetase and total porphyrin content were noted. Conversely, the activity of ferrochelatase, the enzyme that incorporates iron into porphyrin to form heme molecule, decreased significantly, as did the total heme levels. The latter was reduced to only 61% of control values. The findings suggest the likelihood that the observed inhibition of heme formation may contribute substantially to the reduced levels of microsomal cytochromes P-450 and steroidogenic activities that depend on them. Taken collectively, these data suggest a plausible mechanism by which CsA may induce testicular dysfunction; as the result of a combination of reduction in the number of LH receptors and a suppression of heme formation, the hemoprotein-dependent steroidogenic enzymes activities are compromised, leading to an impairment of normal testicular function.
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    No brother. I'm on a drug called Methotrexate. It is a chemotherapy drug.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    No brother. I'm on a drug called Methotrexate. It is a chemotherapy drug.
    Were you going through chemo when you took the Supp /during the after blood test?
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    Oh well the question of it changing your body composition vs diet alone doubtful....it may give someone the drive to make a change but I would not expect more then that or a great addition to pct.
    right, thats what i was wondering/thinking. it seems like it could do great things if your test was low/suppressed, but i just wasn't sure that throwing it into your supplement regimen would do much for body comp other than maybe giving that mental drive to go harder. that's why i felt that it may not be worth the potential sides (for those that get them/are predisposed to them) as i didn't think the boost would do much for body composition in and of itself.
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    I was on it pre and post bloods. So it wouldn't change anything. The DAA+Erase didn't work for ME.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    I was on it pre and post bloods. So it wouldn't change anything. The DAA+Erase didn't work for ME.
    I only ask because chemo destroys the body anyway....if I'm right that is.
    Not a very optimal place for testosterone anyway right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    Oh well the question of it changing your body composition vs diet alone doubtful....it may give someone the drive to make a change but I would not expect more then that or a great addition to pct.
    Agreed. 40 % is a significant increase in test but that may not be that high in every test subject especially younger guys. Supplements make at most a 5 to 10 % difference . Diet is the most important tool.
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    DAA made my brain fire like crazy and anxiety during such things as presentations or intense debates was 100x worse ....i swear it made my freaking eyeballs flutter...works for 90% of folks..not I!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post

    I only ask because chemo destroys the body anyway....if I'm right that is.
    Not a very optimal place for testosterone anyway right?
    Yeah, I'm on a lower dose. Just makes me tired. My doc says it doesn't interfere with testosterone. But who the **** knows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordeen View Post
    DAA made my brain fire like crazy and anxiety during such things as presentations or intense debates was 100x worse ....i swear it made my freaking eyeballs flutter...works for 90% of folks..not I!!!
    Dang haha. Strong sides brah.
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    Killed my libido for some reason....and I was using prolactin control.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    ive cycled daa on 2 different occasions, i also felt it did nothing....
    I kinda feel the same way. I just finished a tub and don't feel that it was helpful at all.
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    So the consensus is, DAA is pretty much useless lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    No brother. I'm on a drug called Methotrexate. It is a chemotherapy drug.


    I am guessing Methotrexate is the problem!?

    Studies on methotrexate effects on testicular steroidogenesis in rats.




    Abstract


    The effects of single dose, 4 consecutive days, 4 and 8 weekly doses of methotrexate (MTX) treatment (3 mg/kg body weight, intramuscularly) with and without leucovorin (LCN) supplementation (0.3 mg/kg body weight, intramuscularly) on serum testosterone titres, total, free and esterified cholesterol concentrations and steroidogenic enzymes, viz. 3beta- and 17beta-hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase activities were studied in adult albino rats. MTX treatment caused a marked reduction in serum testosterone titres in all the treatment groups in a duration-dependent manner. LCN supplementation did not restore serum testosterone titres to normalcy. Total and free cholesterol concentrations remained unaltered in both MTX and MTX + LCN treated groups. On the other hand, a marked increase in esterified cholesterol concentration was evident only in weekly dose treatment groups. The specific activities of 3beta- and 17beta-hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase were markedly diminished in both MTX and MTX + LCN treated groups. The results suggest the inhibitory effect of MTX on steroidogenesis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    So the consensus is, DAA is pretty much useless lol.
    I must disagree it works well as a part of PCT it should also increase drive and focus if it does raise 40% test levels and if your natty that is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    So the consensus is, DAA is pretty much useless lol.
    I think some may react differently. It may have supported me during PCT but I didn't "feel" anything. I tend to gauge by what I feel or see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    I am guessing Methotrexate is the problem!?
    I'm taking 15mg once a week. They were giving rats an equivalent to 460mg for 4 days straight for me. Hahah. I don't think it is having that big of an impact on my T.... do you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    I must disagree it works well as a part of PCT it should also increase drive and focus if it does raise 40% test levels and if your natty that is.
    so i guess my theory was right in a sense. just adding daa to your basic regimen isn't going to help all that much with regard to body composition/strength IN ITSELF (the drive could obviously help). Plus, it sounds like the 40% increase is an 'upper level' increase, and many may not see even that much.

    see, i was having this argument with a friend who said "40% is a **** load, that would give you great gains"... i was basically arguing that you're not going to see REALLL changes in body composition or strength unless you're on something that will boost test at least 150% (kind of arbitrary number i just picke out haha) or more (like ph's/aas... which obviously put it in a much higher range than 150%)

    oh well, i suppose i'll continue and just stop if i see even the slightest sign of anxiety/depression, especially consider i'm on anxiety meds. any how, still somewhat skeptical on its safety and would like to see MUCH more in depth write ups than i've seen with regards to it's supposed neurotoxicity and long-term negative effect on receptors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    so i guess my theory was right in a sense. just adding daa to your basic regimen isn't going to help all that much with regard to body composition/strength IN ITSELF (the drive could obviously help). Plus, it sounds like the 40% increase is an 'upper level' increase, and many may not see even that much.

    see, i was having this argument with a friend who said "40% is a **** load, that would give you great gains"... i was basically arguing that you're not going to see REALLL changes in body composition or strength unless you're on something that will boost test at least 150% (kind of arbitrary number i just picke out haha) or more (like ph's/aas... which obviously put it in a much higher range than 150%)

    oh well, i suppose i'll continue and just stop if i see even the slightest sign of anxiety/depression, especially consider i'm on anxiety meds. any how, still somewhat skeptical on its safety and would like to see MUCH more in depth write ups than i've seen with regards to it's supposed neurotoxicity and long-term negative effect on receptors.

    Natty test boosters dont help with body comp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cable100k View Post
    I'm taking 15mg once a week. They were giving rats an equivalent to 460mg for 4 days straight for me. Hahah. I don't think it is having that big of an impact on my T.... do you?
    i really dont mean this in a dick way, because yall have all been really helpful, but i feel like a lot of people online seem to think if a product (even one that isn't even that thoroughly studied) doesn't have a positive impact on everyone, it must be something else the person is doing. i just HIGHLY doubt that medication is the reason for daa not working (since your bloods were both on the rx), that would just be a ridiculous coincidence that the medication didn't really screw up your test, it just cancelled out daa's effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powercage View Post
    Natty test boosters dont help with body comp
    hahah, i guess that would have been a wayyyyy more efficient question for me to ask to begin with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill86 View Post
    hahah, i guess that would have been a wayyyyy more efficient question for me to ask to begin with.

    They are more for libido/mood
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    bro... Daa. ****s strong. I had to do a pct cause I got teh mad gynoz. My girlfriend said my tits were larger than hers :O **** wuz teh illiest.

    No seriously though DAA has studies backing the fact it increases testosterone a small amount. Helped me with drive and energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post
    bro... Daa. ****s strong. I had to do a pct cause I got teh mad gynoz. My girlfriend said my tits were larger than hers :O **** wuz teh illiest.No seriously though DAA has studies backing the fact it increases testosterone a small amount. Helped me with drive and energy.
    no, i know about the studies and all, i just felt like even at the high end of 40%, you're not going to see much in the way of a change in body composition, which may make it not worth the risks of potential sides (at least in MY case)
  

  
 

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