Pre-workout breakdown

[theish11]

So i understand there are DMAA products out: jack3d, acg3, etc. and ephedrine/dmaa pills out there like lipodrene etc. I was always aggrivated and never really all that pumped from Jack 3d. I took acg3 with dmaa, and it was my favorite pre-workout ever. I literally did my whole routine in a couple hours. i noticed that craze was the new pre with a real kick, but it is now banned. What's the next product with real **** in it that works. I never had a problem with dmaa or ephedrine. I like ephedrine better actually. Any new goodies out there?

 

[theish11]

any specifics on the chemistry will be good info

 

[OnionKnight]

as far as i know, craze isnt banned. it was in a lawsuit for containing amohetamine, but it was dismissed. someone faq check my ass though because i didnt follow that too closely

dmaa is banned however. and jack3d never gave you pumps because it was a stim product. the new jack3d micro turned into a pump product with agmatine and citruline malate both in it.

if you still want dmaa, its still out there. you just have to look around and find it. its not underground or anything

look into enhanced by oes. thats the new hype right now. its focus ehavy like craze, not pump or stim

and whats "your whole routine in a couple hours?" your routine shouldnt even laast a couple hours normally unless youre some kind of athlete in training season or somethin

 

[VaughnTrue]

Check out Maximize Intense...we utilize Acacia Rigidula for insane energy.

if you want nuts pumps, check out Hemavol.

 

[hmmoreno]

I liked Pes Enhanced as a alternative to craze, the focus and endurance is great really similar to craze but with less side affects, not much for pump but you can workout for hours on it.

 

[BPjohn123]

Enhanced! Insane focus, nitrates and agmatine for pump, completely new feel for a preworkout!

 

[stopstalking]

I absolutely hated jack3d so I thought I would also not like jack3d micro.. Boy was I wrong. The pumps, energy and focus are amazing. Totally worth a shot.

Pes enhanced is also pretty amazing. I take 2 scoops and don't feel super stimmed but get great focus.

Formutech volatile is also amazing.. Pumps and focus are unreal. Not much of a stim so great for later workouts.

My top 3 I switch between

 

[theish11]

what is amohetamine. what exactly was in in it.

as far as i know, craze isnt banned. it was in a lawsuit for containing amohetamine, but it was dismissed. someone faq check my ass though because i didnt follow that too closely

dmaa is banned however. and jack3d never gave you pumps because it was a stim product. the new jack3d micro turned into a pump product with agmatine and citruline malate both in it.

if you still want dmaa, its still out there. you just have to look around and find it. its not underground or anything

look into enhanced by oes. thats the new hype right now. its focus ehavy like craze, not pump or stim

and whats "your whole routine in a couple hours?" your routine shouldnt even laast a couple hours normally unless youre some kind of athlete in training season or somethin

 

[vicesoldier]

what is amohetamine. what exactly was in in it.

theres already a thread in this section that goes into detail but it was something with an analog of amphetamines.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Enhanced hands down! It's the first pre that works for me with the required dose and I don't have to use twice the recommended amount and thus waste money. Look on here for reviews and you'll see that I'm not alone on that.

 

[OnionKnight]

what is amohetamine. what exactly was in in it.

yea i ment amphetamine as in meth. theres a huge thread about it

 

[Daycrawler]

yea i ment amphetamine as in meth. theres a huge thread about it

The compound in question is not meth, and is not close to meth. The supposed compound is a amph analog but no where close to meth.

@OP, origin is solid. Clearshot, Craze are all great

 

[allnatural923]

Check out Game Day by MAN sports. Solid stim blend that contains dendrobium, which really helps with overall focus and mental clarity, glycocarn and glycerol monostearate for pumps, along with PF3, which is a unique ingredient that is basically concentrated growth factors and immunoglobulins and has a high molecular weight, which in turn will help have a nutrient partitioning effect. any questions on specifics feel free to PM me

 

[theish11]

So I guess the question is what are the stims in all the pre workouts and what do they Mimic? Which one is the strongest because I don't want to waste my money.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Wreck sh!t stim = Craze
Focused and dialed in w/pump = Enhanced

# of scoops needed per is an individual decision

 

[Tmac29]

any specifics on the chemistry will be good info

Craze is not banned. I don't where you keep reading that bull**** but its not true.


I personally have 4 tubs of Craze sitting on my shelf that just arrived last week. I've been using it for months. I take a couple weeks off every couple months to give myself a break, during that time I use Body Octane from MAN.


People need to quit spreading misinformation. If morons knew about how many Craze fakes were in circulation and only god knows what is in those then maybe they wouldnt spew crap from their finger tips.

 

[AdelV]

Craze is not banned. I don't where you keep reading that bull**** but its not true.

I personally have 4 tubs of Craze sitting on my shelf that just arrived last week. I've been using it for months. I take a couple weeks off every couple months to give myself a break, during that time I use Body Octane from MAN.

People need to quit spreading misinformation. If morons knew about how many Craze fakes were in circulation and only god knows what is in those then maybe they wouldnt spew crap from their finger tips.

I doubt craze fakes made into Australia, and Sweden just tested it picking up the same compound. Australia/Europe are way stricter, Its already been pulled in Australia by federal police. Go argue that.

 

[Tmac29]

I doubt craze fakes made into Australia, and Sweden just tested it picking up the same compound. Australia/Europe are way stricter, Its already been pulled in Australia by federal police. Go argue that.

Yea ok


Do you speak with the owner of DS? I do frequently. They already have caught a retailer buying both real craze AND fakes to lower his over head cost. They have already caught a manufacturer in Germany producing them, over 50,000 of them. Matt has no control over who retailers buy his product from once it hits the distributor. So they buy fakes, its not his fault.

And how come the US, who in all the mighty testing glory, have no caught anything? Matt just producing "spiked" for foreigne countries? And buy into the "internet crap". The Craze fakes look exactly like the real tubs


Ralph pls go.

 

[Tmac29]

Oh and mind you, that retailer was in EUROPE that got caught buying both. Some strict laws eh?

 

[southpaw23]

Enhanced and Craze, done and done. But check out these apples. Look at the ingredient profile and more importantly, check out how they're dosed. I'll be getting a tub in tomorrow and I'll throw up a mini-review.

 

[southpaw23]

Yea ok


Do you speak with the owner of DS? I do frequently. They already have caught a retailer buying both real craze AND fakes to lower his over head cost. They have already caught a manufacturer in Germany producing them, over 50,000 of them. Matt has no control over who retailers buy his product from once it hits the distributor. So they buy fakes, its not his fault.

And how come the US, who in all the mighty testing glory, have no caught anything? Matt just producing "spiked" for foreigne countries? And buy into the "internet crap". The Craze fakes look exactly like the real tubs


Ralph pls go.

He doesn't care about about what may or may not be in Craze, he's in it for the drama of it all.

 

[Tmac29]

Enhanced and Craze, done and done. But check out these apples. Look at the ingredient profile and more importantly, check out how they're dosed. I'll be getting a tub in tomorrow and I'll throw up a mini-review.

View attachment 78766

I must admit. I just saw that today and piqued my interest. Never heard of that "X" word ingredient though. Gonna need do to some research on it first.

 

[Tmac29]

He doesn't care about about what may or may not be in Craze, he's in it for the drama of it all.

Which is sad. That's why this industry is getting so scrutinized. I understand its a business. But maybe if people weren't looking for ways to screw each other over at every chance then maybe this industry wouldn't be so damn crooked.

 

[southpaw23]

Which is sad. That's why this industry is getting so scrutinized. I understand its a business. But maybe if people weren't looking for ways to screw each other over at every chance then maybe this industry wouldn't be so damn crooked.

It happens. You'll get a bunch of guys jump over from other boards just to ratchet up the drama. Yawn. Wake me up when something concrete happens.

 

[Tmac29]

It happens. You'll get a bunch of guys jump over from other boards just to ratchet up the drama. Yawn. Wake me up when something concrete happens.

I really don't think anything concrete is going to happen. Just like the lawsuit from the first issue (which had nothing to do with PA i believe for clarification). It was based on complete bull****.


Its a shame really. DS makes an outstanding pre workout, with an exceptional ingredient panel, and you have those that while trying to mimic its effects are using analogs that are banned in countries. All the while putting in tubs that are extremely similar to Craze tubs, and calling it "Craze". Literally counterfeit Craze!

 

[southpaw23]

I really don't think anything concrete is going to happen. Just like the lawsuit from the first issue (which had nothing to do with PA i believe for clarification). It was based on complete bull****.


Its a shame really. DS makes an outstanding pre workout, with an exceptional ingredient panel, and you have those that while trying to mimic its effects are using analogs that are banned in countries. All the while putting in tubs that are extremely similar to Craze tubs.

I agree with you. I've been using Craze since it first came to market, nothing else comes REMOTELY close in my opinion with the exception of Enhanced.

 

[AdelV]

Yea ok

Do you speak with the owner of DS? I do frequently. They already have caught a retailer buying both real craze AND fakes to lower his over head cost. They have already caught a manufacturer in Germany producing them, over 50,000 of them. Matt has no control over who retailers buy his product from once it hits the distributor. So they buy fakes, its not his fault.

And how come the US, who in all the mighty testing glory, have no caught anything? Matt just producing "spiked" for foreigne countries? And buy into the "internet crap". The Craze fakes look exactly like the real tubs

Ralph pls go.

So he says? Wow.

Where are these companies? Links to legal action?

Every bad unit is a fake, off course! Its not available here anymore. Its been pulled. Im sure the federal police tested more than one tub and one batch. We'll just pretend theyre a little smarter than you, is that ok?

*edit*, why dont we hear stories of other companies products being fake? Only Craze is worth faking? Pft.

 

[Tmac29]

So he says? Wow.

Where are these companies? Links to legal action?

Every bad unit is a fake, off course! Its not available here anymore. Its been pulled. Im sure the federal police tested more than one tub and one batch. We'll just pretend theyre a little smarter than you, is that ok?

You really have no idea do you. You do realize that international law is a bit harder to enforce right? Esp when it comes to supplements? I mean they can order a cease and desist to sell letter but the what is out there is out there.

We are located in the US and there are located in Europe, there are steps and procedures that must be taken. Its not a phone call and "all in well".

And you and I both know that legal action is kept under wraps until the parties feel comfortable to release the findings as to not jeopardize the case, as in the case of the last lawsuit, I take it you were ALLLLLLL up in that thread weren't you? Funny, I don't ever remember seeing thread showing how the case was tossed when all the truth and testing came out showing it was complete and utter bull****.

I will say this, I'm sure they are in procession of plenty of the fakes (sealed i'm sure) and its gonna be funny when it all comes out.


You are really grasping for straws here and its making you look like a fool. All the while Craze is still being sold here in the US and continues to be sold without zero issue.


And PLEASE show me where its not available in the US. As a matter of fact. I might just order some more today, not because I need it, but because you are a moron.

 

[southpaw23]

So he says? Wow.

Where are these companies? Links to legal action?

Every bad unit is a fake, off course! Its not available here anymore. Its been pulled. Im sure the federal police tested more than one tub and one batch. We'll just pretend theyre a little smarter than you, is that ok?

Serious question, do you even the use the product? Lol. You're jackin' it to PA's every word and granted he is very respected within his field, but he's also a competitor. You'll say that Cahill's (don't know the guy) past is questionable, but quite a few names involved in this thing also share questionable pasts (FYI- I'm not judging anyone).

Why don't you wait until something concrete comes out here in the US, if and when that happens, then you can do the happy dance, because honestly if your idea of evidence is a youtube video, two tests undertaken in areas where counterfeits are prevalent...you couldn't win that case on Law & Order.

 

[southpaw23]

You really have no idea do you. You do realize that international law is a bit harder to enforce right? Esp when it comes to supplements? I mean they can order a cease and desist to sell letter but the what is out there is out there.

We are located in the US and there are located in Europe, there are steps and procedures that must be taken. Its not a phone call and "all in well".

And you and I both know that legal action is kept under wraps until the parties feel comfortable to release the findings as to not jeopardize the case, as in the case of the last lawsuit, I take it you were ALLLLLLL up in that thread weren't you? Funny, I don't ever remember seeing thread showing how the case was tossed when all the truth and testing came out showing it was complete and utter bull****.

I will say this, I'm sure they are in procession of plenty of the fakes (sealed i'm sure) and its gonna be funny when it all comes out.


You are really grasping for straws here and its making you look like a fool. All the while Craze is still being sold here in the US and continues to be sold without zero issue.

Don't waste your time man. He's not in it for any other reason than it provides him sort of excitement/entertainment, which is hilarious in and of itself.

 

[Tmac29]

Don't waste your time man. He's not in it for any other reason than it provides him sort of excitement/entertainment, which is hilarious in and of itself.

This is true.

 

[AdelV]

Im the one who put the new info on AM. Its been pulled in AUSTRALIA, who said the US? Do you read mate? Its banned, even Ebay sellers have had to remove it. Im sure in the next few months we'll see what happens.

 

[AdelV]

Im the one who put the new info on AM. Its been pulled in AUSTRALIA, who said the US? Do you read mate? Its banned, even Ebay sellers have had to remove it. Im sure in the next few months we'll see what happens.

Feel free to contact the TGA or Federal police in Australia. Theyll reply to you with why Its been pulled, the same letter/reply sent to all retailers in the country here.

And I have no issue with Matt, Ive dealt with him many times & traded. He was very good! Im just repeating what GOVERNMENT agencies put out in this country recently.

I have used original Craze, but not the new batches.

 

[Tmac29]

Im the one who put the new info on AM. Its been pulled in AUSTRALIA, who said the US? Do you read mate? Its banned, even Ebay sellers have had to remove it. Im sure in the next few months we'll see what happens.

Yea well you Aussies can't get a lot of things. 1,3 DMAA being one of them.

 

[southpaw23]

Im the one who put the new info on AM. Its been pulled in AUSTRALIA, who said the US? Do you read mate? Its banned, even Ebay sellers have had to remove it. Im sure in the next few months we'll see what happens.

Lol. You DIDN'T do anything. This ban dates all the way back to January and has been known about for some time . You just enjoy injecting yourself into the drama of it all. This isn't MTV's Road Rules Challenge.

 

[AdelV]

Yea well you Aussies can't get a lot of things. 1,3 DMAA being one of them.

Lol. I think we got restrictions even on zinc(no more than 50mg per cap)? Theyre pretty bad ass here.

I think the UK has topped us however! Ohwell.

 

[Jiigzz]

gtfo with that craze ****. There's enough threads on it already.

 

[theish11]

Just trying to find the good **** without wasting money. No one evidently knows why the chemicals are cuz that's what I was asking. I know that 1,3 dimeth etc means a good pre workout to me. So what are some other goodies equivalent better etc ?

 

[Jiigzz]

None are equivalent to 1,3. It is in its own little league. Ephedrine and Caffeine perhaps? There really isn't much else in terms of stims.

 

[theish11]

Thanks Jiggs yea that's what I was lookin for.