DS CRAZE BANNED IN AUSTRALIA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Besides the one mythical youtube video, is there any other proof that it contains this analogue?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyZe_vYbN-M
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    An actual document from aussies would be helpful
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    That's why I love PA
    Check out Island Supplements.com for all your supplement needs.
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    Documentation of any sort would be helpful. I'm not dismissing the charge one way or the other. I get that this product is and has been under suspicion/scrutiny for some time, frankly because it's head and shoulders above anything else out there (with the exception of Enhance). It's been tested, retested, gone through lawsuits (eventually dismissed) and yet still not one single mention of this analogue until a youtube video suddenly pops up. Besides this mythical youtube video, what other evidence is available?
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    So many legitimate questions being raised. Proof...I guess we'll have to wait on that one.
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    This is just my opinion as a consumer, someone who has purchased the product since its release, firstly, if there is in fact something illicit in the product, it should be banned immediately and those that profited from it should be punished appropriately. However, this thing has been an ongoing soap opera for months now. What some call "evidence" is basically suspicions, accusations and a handful of guys who love being embroiled in the drama of it all, so they post about this on every forum they can find. You have guys like R.Kramer who seemingly has it out for Cahill, also some others intent on beating this thing into the ground because well let's face it, it's the best preworkout to come along in years, it works, period.

    Now before someone jumps down my throat, I'm not defending DS, Cahill or anyone else, if the product is indeed spiked with this analogue then as I've stated before, they should face the appropriate sanctions/punishments. But how is this thing allowed to go on for months, when the product was tested multiple times (nothing found...suspicions still remained), lawsuits dismissed with zero evidence turned over suggesting that anything illicit was found in the product. And now we have the smoking gun... a youtube video. Crikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    This is just my opinion as a consumer, someone who has purchased the product since its release, firstly, if there is in fact something illicit in the product, it should be banned immediately and those that profited from it should be punished appropriately. However, this thing has been an ongoing soap opera for months now. What some call "evidence" is basically suspicions, accusations and a handful of guys who love being embroiled in the drama of it all, so they post about this on every forum they can find. You have guys like R.Kramer who seemingly has it out for Cahill, also some others intent on beating this thing into the ground because well let's face it, it's the best preworkout to come along in years, it works, period.

    Now before someone jumps down my throat, I'm not defening DS, Cahill or anyone else, if the product is indeed spiked with this analogue then as I've stated before, they should face the appropriate sanctions/punishments. But how is this thing allowed to go on for months, when the product was tested multiple times (nothing found...suspicions still remained), lawsuits dismissed with zero evidence turned over suggesting that anything illicit was found in the product. And now we have the smoking gun... a youtube video. Crikes.

    What then on the label do you honestly think is causing the effects people are getting?

    I dont think anyone that really knew what to look for has tested this product (at least who would talk about it) until the aussie feds. It is a lot harder than you think to decipher all this, and the fact that the culprit compound (may have) appeared to people to be something expected on the label makes it kinda easy to accidentally skip over

    When you really think about it, its not so implausible

    And do you really care one way or another if its true? You know you love the product either way. Do you feel injured? if not than why care?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    What then on the label do you honestly think is causing the effects people are getting?

    I dont think anyone that really knew what to look for has tested this product (at least who would talk about it) until the aussie feds. It is a lot harder than you think to decipher all this, and the fact that the culprit compound (may have) appeared to people to be something expected on the label makes it kinda easy to accidentally skip over

    When you really think about it, its not so implausible

    And do you really care one way or another if its true? You know you love the product either way. Do you feel injured? if not than why care?
    I'm not a chemist or product formulator, I'll defer to more capable minds in that area. However, here is what I know, not one ounce of evidence has been presented yet to suggest that the product does in fact contain this analogue. Yes I know...a youtube video, case closed I guess.

    Yes I enjoy the product, however, note that if something illicit is found in the product then I believe DS should be held accountable and I'd no longer use the product. Fair approach no? All I'm saying is this, where is the evidence to suggest that it contains the analogue discussed here apart from the factual treasure trove of information known as the mythical youtube? If there is evidence, cool, present it and Craze is out of here. I'm okay with that, even as someone who highly enjoys using the product. My point remains the same, this story has already been spun for months...where's the smoking gun?
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    You could try emailing the TGA, CUSTOMS AND/OR FEDERAL POLICE. Its been pulled from shops nation wide. I think thats proof enough? We'll see if anymore information comes from retailers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I'm not a chemist or product formulator, I'll defer to more capable minds in that area. However, here is what I know, not one ounce of evidence has been presented yet to suggest that the product does in fact contain this analogue. Yes I know...a youtube video, case closed I guess.

    Yes I enjoy the product, however, note that if something illicit is found in the product then I believe DS should be held accountable and I'd no longer use the product. Fair approach no? All I'm saying is this, where is the evidence to suggest that it contains the analogue discussed here apart from the factual treasure trove of information known as the mythical youtube? If there is evidence, cool, present it and Craze is out of here. I'm okay with that, even as someone who highly enjoys using the product. My point remains the same, this story has already been spun for months...where's the smoking gun?
    It is pretty much beyond the shadow of a doubt that craze has been banned from australia because all australia retailers and distributors are talking about it. the question is why was it banned? These people say they were told because it has an amphetamine analog. What does that mean? Suggestions are starting to arise that it is the compound I mentioned. NO there is no documentation but I am confident there will be something soon.

    so just be patient, this will play out in due time i am sure
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    You could try emailing the TGA, CUSTOMS AND/OR FEDERAL POLICE. Its been pulled from shops nation wide. I think thats proof enough? We'll see if anymore information comes from retailers.
    Lol. I'm not emailing anyone. I live in the US, there are different product formulations for other markets outside of the US, based on their restrictions. That is hardly proof of anything. You're asking me to look at a youtube video, then to email "whoever" in Australia. This product has been on the market for well over a year now in the US. I'll wait until valid documentation is presented to make a judgment, or see if Mel Gibson emails me back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I My point remains the same, this story has already been spun for months...where's the smoking gun?

    In my perspective, it has just started to really play out. What transpired the last few months was piddly BS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    In my perspective, it has just started to really play out. What transpired the last few months was piddly BS
    Fair enough, we shall see and if you're right you deserve credit for it. But if you're wrong and this is all for not, AGAIN, then I highly doubt you'll be criticized for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Fair enough, we shall see and if you're right you deserve credit for it. But if you're wrong and this is all for not, AGAIN, then I highly doubt you'll be criticized for it.

    i am trying not to make any definitive statements so if this is all wrong i cant be accused of lying or misrepresentation
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    On a side note, just got me thinking, this analogue was just recently discovered correct? According to google searches, I see mentions of the Australian ban going back as far as January,February. We're now into April and this is coming up now, almost two months later. Now people have claimed that the newer formula differs from the original, essentially it's weaker. So did the Aussies test the newer (supposedly weaker version), or the original version that some people are claiming is stronger? If DS did tweak the formula to remove anything questionable, then they (Aussies) must have either tested the old version or the counterfeits. I mean it would be pretty stupid of DS, with the level of scrutiny this product receives, to reformulate and still include the analogue. Doesn't make sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    On a side note, just got me thinking, this analogue was just recently discovered correct? According to google searches, I see mentions of the Australian ban going back as far as January,February. We're now into April and this is coming up now, almost two months later. Now people have claimed that the newer formula differs from the original, essentially it's weaker. So did the Aussies test the newer (supposedly weaker version), or the original version that some people are claiming is stronger? If DS did tweak the formula to remove anything questionable, then they (Aussies) must have either tested the old version or the counterfeits. I mean it would be pretty stupid of DS, with the level of scrutiny this product receives, to reformulate and still include the analogue. Doesn't make sense.

    as you know i cant really discuss the testing i did. if i could though it would be helpful to the conversation

    stuff will play out. i know its bizarre
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    On a side note, just got me thinking, this analogue was just recently discovered correct? According to google searches, I see mentions of the Australian ban going back as far as January,February. We're now into April and this is coming up now, almost two months later. Now people have claimed that the newer formula differs from the original, essentially it's weaker. So did the Aussies test the newer (supposedly weaker version), or the original version that some people are claiming is stronger? If DS did tweak the formula to remove anything questionable, then they (Aussies) must have either tested the old version or the counterfeits. I mean it would be pretty stupid of DS, with the level of scrutiny this product receives, to reformulate and still include the analogue. Doesn't make sense.
    I was thinking the same thing. People claim the new batches are weaker, yet I assume the new ones were tested and it would be pretty stupid of DS to continue to spike(which I don't really know if they did because I feel no difference from the new or OG) Craze under that scrutiny.
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