Creatine, yay or nay?

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    Try primaforce cee if the mono gives you the bloat. I'm loving the cee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Its hard to say I notice anything from creatine or feel ay different. TBH I feel like many people supplement with it without a real idea of how to benefit from it; often BBers may use it but since rest periods are often low (30-60s) this isn't enough time for the body to fully restore PCr stores therefore the body switches to glycolysis.

    Strength + power athletes imo, get more benefit out of it as rest periods are much longer, thus allowing for full restoration of PCr and, as Creatine increases PCr capacity, it should translate into more reps.

    I'd love to see what @JudoJosh thinks about this.
    Creatine is one of the very few actually proven ergogenic aids we have in this game. That said its MOA is still really not quite fully understood and their are "non-responders" but as mentioned earlier in this thread, it is so freaking cheap I cant see any reason why someone wont at least give it a shot.
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    This one is pretty controversial

    Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players.

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE:
    This study investigated resting concentrations of selected androgens after 3 weeks of creatine supplementation in male rugby players. It was hypothesized that the ratio of dihydrotestosterone (DHT, a biologically more active androgen) to testosterone (T) would change with creatine supplementation.

    DESIGN
    Double-blind placebo-controlled crossover study with a 6-week washout period.

    SETTING:Rugby Institute in South Africa.

    PARTICIPANTS:College-aged rugby players (n = 20) volunteered for the study, which took place during the competitive season.

    INTERVENTIONS:Subjects loaded with creatine (25 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose) or placebo (50 g/day glucose) for 7 days followed by 14 days of maintenance (5 g/day creatine with 25 g/day glucose or 30 g/day glucose placebo).

    MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:Serum T and DHT were measured and ratio calculated at baseline and after 7 days and 21 days of creatine supplementation (or placebo). Body composition measurements were taken at each time point.

    RESULTS:
    After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Creatine supplementation may, in part, act through an increased rate of conversion of T to DHT. Further investigation is warranted as a result of the high frequency of individuals using creatine supplementation and the long-term safety of alterations in circulating androgen composition.

    STATEMENT OF CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Although creatine is a widely used ergogenic aid, the mechanisms of action are incompletely understood, particularly in relation to dihydrotestosterone, and therefore the long-term clinical safety cannot be guaranteed.
    So as you can see it seems quite plausible that creatine may have some sort of effect on DHT but as far as I know the results have never been replicated. None the less it is still quite interesting IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Creatine is one of the very few actually proven ergogenic aids we have in this game. That said its MOA is still really not quite fully understood and their are "non-responders" but as mentioned earlier in this thread, it is so freaking cheap I cant see any reason why someone wont at least give it a shot.
    Agreed, as I noted above it does have a positive effect on RST performance which, assumingly (without the FT) would have rest periods similar to that of BBing.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    This one is pretty controversial



    So as you can see it seems quite plausible that creatine may have some sort of effect on DHT but as far as I know the results have never been replicated. None the less it is still quite interesting IMO
    Yikes. I hope somebody does replicate this..
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Overrated. People use it because its dirt cheep and lets you pull off that extra rep or two due to more efficient energy utilization. So far i haven't seen a single study supporting long term results in terms of lean mass gains. All studies i read measure muscle girth when fully creatine loaded, no fkin **** they are gonna be bigger then.

    Other than that its got a dozen of other health benefits, but hey there are about 1000 other stuff you could also be taking that provides general health benefits. By the end of the day you'll be popping pills like theres no tomorrow. There is nothing "special" about this one.
    Research further. There are several studies conducted for long periods of time. One done in D1 football players.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    My vote is an absolute yay, my five go to supplements for enhancing size and performance

    creatine monohydrate
    arachidonic acid
    beta alanine
    creatinol-o-phosphate
    and of course whey protein
    Swollen knows what's up...

    I can't fathom any reason creatine would even be questioned except dumb asses spreading ridiculous broscience about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post

    Research further. There are several studies conducted for long periods of time. One done in D1 football players.

    Swollen knows what's up...

    I can't fathom any reason creatine would even be questioned except dumb asses spreading ridiculous broscience about.

    - Valdez
    I've never used cop or ara but I've heard good things about both. If already using beta alanine, is cop overkill?
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    Read up for the people saying it doesn't do anything.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/conte...benefits-3351/
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post
    I've never used cop or ara but I've heard good things about both. If already using beta alanine, is cop overkill?
    No way... A lot of people really enjoy the benefits of COP. Try it bulk to be able to manipulate dosing for what words best with you. I know we (SNS) carry it and Epharm does an effervescent.

    It's worth a try, if you've been on beta alanine for a while I would add it to everything you're currently using so you will be able to tell if any difference is made.

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    In a world full of snake oil, creatine is one of the only supplements not emptying peoples' wallets based on the placebo effect. It actually works. Imagine that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SXIPro View Post
    In a world full of snake oil, creatine is one of the only supplements not emptying peoples' wallets based on the placebo effect. It actually works. Imagine that.
    Well said

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    Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post
    I've never used cop or ara but I've heard good things about both. If already using beta alanine, is cop overkill?
    We are huge on both ingredients (as you would likely guess since both are in our product line lol).

    I would try COP when you cycle off of beta alanine rather than taking them together (to best assess the effects of the COP).
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    We are huge on both ingredients (as you would likely guess since both are in our product line lol).

    I would try COP when you cycle off of beta alanine rather than taking them together (to best assess the effects of the COP).
    If that's the case he should probably wait a few weeks of being completely off of BA to compensate for leftover saturation no? Which is why I recommended to stay on. Since he's probably been on for a while so he would probably notice any changes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    If that's the case he should probably wait a few weeks of being completely off of BA to compensate for leftover saturation no? Which is why I recommended to stay on. Since he's probably been on for a while so he would probably notice any changes

    - Valdez
    Yep, definitely nothing wrong with taking both, and they certainly make a great stack for muscular endurance.

    I was just saying in general its best to assess new ingredients when using them solo. I also encourage people to try both solo to see which ingredient they prefer, I find COP to outperform BA personally, so I wonder if that is the case for many.
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    I appreciate the heads up. Is it necessary to cycle off BA?
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    yay?
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post
    I appreciate the heads up. Is it necessary to cycle off BA?
    Tbh its really a good idea to cycle off of everything. Even fish oils lol. A high level of anything for a long amount of time can cause imbalances with other things

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