Multi vitamins worth it?

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    Multi vitamins worth it?


    Trying to be a bit more conscientious about my money, and I think these might be the first to go.

    I always took them "just because".

    Anyone not take a multi and just eat food?

    I've heard absorbtion is very poor with multis anyway, but I'm not sure if this is just bro science.

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    if you are getting your requirements through food then no not worth it, its just a supplement like everything else....
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    if you are getting your requirements through food then no not worth it, its just a supplement like everything else....
    I understand where yo are coming from..but I disagree. It is rare that you eat everything you need from food, therefore you will most likely need a strong multi.
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    A quality multi is something that should definitely be around. I don't know anyone that has enough of a variety to take in what they need everyday. Plus for me Orange Triad helps a lot with my hands, which not only helps with lifting (as I can continue gripping barbells and dumbbells), but can be life or death when I'm out riding on my motorcycle.
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    A good multi is a must for me,non-negotiable,even when my diet is on point!Orange Triad is my go to multi!
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    whats special about "quality" its the same fricken chemical or vitamin theirs no such thing as quality its not a drug its a food type product
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    Multi, protein, creatine, fish oil = staples in my supplement regime. I'd look to cut anything else.
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    Opti-Men is a great value and a multi is a staple for me.....
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    Everyone is different. I'm malnourished. Overweight {Very muscular}. Train three days a week, sometimes 6. Yet sustain strength levels where I have a 1475 RAW total. Maybe the multi would help but I don't come close to getting what most believe I should even eat. Maybe multi would help but I don't take them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post

    I understand where yo are coming from..but I disagree. It is rare that you eat everything you need from food, therefore you will most likely need a strong multi.
    Each is their own.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aznmonk View Post
    whats special about "quality" its the same fricken chemical or vitamin theirs no such thing as quality its not a drug its a food type product
    There is a difference, if I recall correctly vitamins and minerals can be derived from different sources and some adsorb better then others. The pairing and amounts of vitamins is important also rather then trowing the kitchen sink in. Also something about mirrored isomers or something?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aznmonk View Post
    whats special about "quality" its the same fricken chemical or vitamin theirs no such thing as quality its not a drug its a food type product
    Not sure "quality" is the correct term but most multivitamins contain cheap inactive forms that rely heavily on being metabolized to function. So if you want supra-physiological levels of your vitamins, for instance getting P5P and methylcobalamine over pyridoxine and cyanocobalamine is preferable.

    But if you only want whats essential it wont be neccesary
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    I never have and never will spend money on a multi. Seems like a waste IMO. Eat a diet high in natural vitamins and minerals and you'll be fine.
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    A multivitamin is definitely a low priority. Most supplements can't simply be obtained via diet (e.g. ALCAR, BA, Agmatine) in appreciable quantities. However, a multivitamin is not only found readily in the food supply, but us Westerners usually crush our vitamin/mineral needs save for things like Vitamin E, Magnesium, and selenium
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    I've been using a cheap multi for the past year and haven't noticed a difference vs the premium multi's
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFugitive View Post
    I've been using a cheap multi for the past year and haven't noticed a difference vs the premium multi's
    yeah see i could get 100 count multivitamin with same basic profile minus the random extracts for $4.99 at my local drug store
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    Multivitamins are extremely convenient (usually only 1 pill per day) and considering how deficient peoples diets can be they would seem like the logical choice to correct the deficiency.

    Problem is they aren't too effective

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19204221
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15805125

    Ultimately, multivitamins are not the best way to relieve nutritional deficiencies. Instead I would 1) increase egg yolk, red meat, fruit, and veggie intake and 2) supplement with individual vitamins such as K2, potassium iodide, magnesium, copper, zinc, vitamin C, B-complex, etc..
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Multivitamins are extremely convenient (usually only 1 pill per day) and considering how deficient peoples diets can be they would seem like the logical choice to correct the deficiency.

    Problem is they aren't too effective

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19204221
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15805125

    Ultimately, multivitamins are not the best way to relieve nutritional deficiencies. Instead I would 1) increase egg yolk, red meat, fruit, and veggie intake and 2) supplement with individual vitamins such as K2, potassium iodide, magnesium, copper, zinc, vitamin C, B-complex, etc..
    I agree with K2, D3, magnesium (unless you take alot of capped supplements), Zinc perhaps (diet depending) but b complex , arguably, is readily obtained through the diet.

    A varied diet is the best way to cover your bases imo rather than rely on a multi. Some things, like a broad range of phytochemicals (and various forms on vitamins) are just not found in multis
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    Re: Multi vitamins worth it?


    Were just examples rather than suggestions but to respond to your statement http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16412860Thiamin deficiency was observed in 12 percent of healthy persons and 33 percent of heart failure patients. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7...8408Riboflavin deficiency afflicts somewhere between 25 and 75 percent of the populationhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19631047Vitamin B6 deficiency was found in 38 percent of heart failure patientsA b-complex is fairly cheap (swansons) and toxicity risk is pretty low so my question is why not toss one in? Unless of course your diet is ample in veggies (peas, mushrooms, broccoli, cabbage, asparagus, potatoes, spinach, collard greens, avocado, sweet potatoes, brussels sprouts, cauliflower), fruit (bananas and oranges) and red meat, chicken eggs then your prolly covered. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    A varied diet is the best way to cover your bases imo rather than rely on a multi. Some things, like a broad range of phytochemicals (and various forms on vitamins) are just not found in multis
    Ain't nobody got time for that!

    I really envy you people that have the patience of cooking a varied diet to nail all the vitamins, specially while cutting.

    Vitamin supplements are inferior in that department but they are also very time efficient
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    Quote Originally Posted by HokiePride
    Everyone is different. I'm malnourished. Overweight {Very muscular}. Train three days a week, sometimes 6. Yet sustain strength levels where I have a 1475 RAW total. Maybe the multi would help but I don't come close to getting what most believe I should even eat. Maybe multi would help but I don't take them.
    This is def a solid source.
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    You buy cheap multivitamins, you get what you pay for.

    Douglas labs athlete specific brand, klean athlete.
    "Vitamins and minerals play a vital role for those of us who compete - from metabolizing fats and carbs, to providing fuel during training and races, to utilizing protein to restore muscle afterward.Containing a fruit and vegetable blend, Klean Multivitamin is specially formulated for the unique needs of athletes. Unlike many multivitamins that have too much magnesium and calcium, Klean gives your body the optimum balance of ingredients to stay healthy throughout your training. Bottom line? Optimal health and performance start here."

    Or go for Douglas labs ultra preventative X multi, If you want the best.

    If you consider yourself an athlete, you should def be using a multi.
    If your a fat lazy weekend warrior, you probably will not want to be to serious about your nutrition and overall health.
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    Re: Multi vitamins worth it?


    Im an animal pak guy myself
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Ain't nobody got time for that!

    I really envy you people that have the patience of cooking a varied diet to nail all the vitamins, specially while cutting.
    its really not that hard..

    For example:
    • egg yolks for choline, folate, vitamin A, selenium, k2
    • Dark chocolate for magnesium and zinc
    • 1/ 4 pound of beef or lamb liver a week for copper, vitamin A, folate, choline, k2
    • Fish, shellfish for selenium, manganese
    • 1 tablespoon red palm oil for vitamin E
    • Red meat for iron, selenium
    • Drink milk or make bone broths for calcium
    • Bananas, avocado, sweet potato, red potato, carrots, spinach, berries, tomatoes. asparagus for potassium, vitamin A, antioxidants and much more
    • Go outside for vitamin D


    Then if you want to supplement with vitamins you can easily add in vitamin D, K2, vitamin C, iodine, magnesium, zinc, a B-50 complex, pantothenic acid, potassium iodide and you should be pretty well covered without really that much effort
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    Re: Multi vitamins worth it?


    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    its really not that hard..

    For example:
    • egg yolks for choline, folate, vitamin A, selenium, k2
    • Dark chocolate for magnesium and zinc
    • 1/ 4 pound of beef or lamb liver a week for copper, vitamin A, folate, choline, k2
    • Fish, shellfish for selenium, manganese
    • 1 tablespoon red palm oil for vitamin E
    • Red meat for iron, selenium
    • Drink milk or make bone broths for calcium
    • Bananas, avocado, sweet potato, red potato, carrots, spinach, berries, tomatoes. asparagus for potassium, vitamin A, antioxidants and much more
    • Go outside for vitamin D


    Then if you want to supplement with vitamins you can easily add in vitamin D, K2, vitamin C, iodine, magnesium, zinc, a B-50 complex, pantothenic acid, potassium iodide and you should be pretty well covered without really that much effort
    Much rather swallow a few pills, thats way too involved bro. I have a job and two kids, i aint gots time for all that bone broths and red palm oil
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    Re: Multi vitamins worth it?


    Excuses

    I work 12 hour days in an emergency room, am married with 2 kids (one is a 2 year old red head girl aka demon child) and am going to school. Its really not that hard to eat healthier but it is a conscious choice you have to make. Some rather roll the dice and risk it with their health but because of my family I rather not and I take the extra seconds to make my food rather than buying pre made food. To each his own I guess

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    Re: Multi vitamins worth it?


    Not knocking what you do bro, just sayin its not for everyone. The multivitamin market is here to stay, they have a solid purpose in the supplement industry. Of course you can get all you need from food but its not possible for everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcesare View Post
    hey have a solid purpose in the supplement industry.
    Again, problem is they are ineffective

    Multivitamin use and risk of cancer and card... [Arch Intern Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

    42 percent of women who regularly used multivitamins had no difference in rates of cancer, heart attack, stroke, or mortality from those who did not take multivitamins in fact, the multivitamin users were 2 percent more likely to die!

    Role of multivitamins and mineral supplements in prevent... [BMJ. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

    Multivitamin users had the same number of infections as nonusers

    You might as well be taking sugar pills
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Again, problem is they are ineffective

    You might as well be taking sugar pills
    Lol are you serious? Ineffective in what context? Vitamin supplements may not provide protection against said diseases, but that is because the protection comes from phytochems and not because vitamin supplements are not absorbed. It is definitely not like "taking sugar pills"

    I, for one, consume multivitamin supplements to supply said vitamins for optimal metabolic function and not because i believe they provide cancer protection and whatnot. I am also pretty sure that without it i would not consume the RDI of all vitamins, mostly because i hate cooking and its just too inconvenient.
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    Re: Multi vitamins worth it?


    Everyone throw out your mv's. We have all been wrong this whole time.
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    It will always be a debate to how much or how little they help. I prefer a well balanced diet. When I use Orange Triad I actually feel the befits for my joints.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Were just examples rather than suggestions but to respond to your statement http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16412860Thiamin deficiency was observed in 12 percent of healthy persons and 33 percent of heart failure patients. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7...8408Riboflavin deficiency afflicts somewhere between 25 and 75 percent of the populationhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19631047Vitamin B6 deficiency was found in 38 percent of heart failure patientsA b-complex is fairly cheap (swansons) and toxicity risk is pretty low so my question is why not toss one in? Unless of course your diet is ample in veggies (peas, mushrooms, broccoli, cabbage, asparagus, potatoes, spinach, collard greens, avocado, sweet potatoes, brussels sprouts, cauliflower), fruit (bananas and oranges) and red meat, chicken eggs then your prolly covered. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
    People are even more deficient than I thought/realised
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Lol are you serious? Ineffective in what context? Vitamin supplements may not provide protection against said diseases, but that is because the protection comes from phytochems and not because vitamin supplements are not absorbed. It is definitely not like "taking sugar pills"

    I, for one, consume multivitamin supplements to supply said vitamins for optimal metabolic function and not because i believe they provide cancer protection and whatnot. I am also pretty sure that without it i would not consume the RDI of all vitamins, mostly because i hate cooking and its just too inconvenient.
    Just curious, and am not bagging multi's but have you ever been tested for deficiencies while on a multi? I.e. in areas in which are both covered and not covered by the multi? Consuming them is one thing, absorbing them is another.

    If you have and they are working to fill in the gaps then cool, thats what you want. Just never assume anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Just curious, and am not bagging multi's but have you ever been tested for deficiencies while on a multi? I.e. in areas in which are both covered and not covered by the multi? Consuming them is one thing, absorbing them is another.

    If you have and they are working to fill in the gaps then cool, thats what you want. Just never assume anything.
    I have not. There is just absolutely no reason to believe that multis consumed with food gets absorbed less than vitamins or minerals found in foods. I have atleast found zero evidence claiming so nor does it make sense in a biochemical POV. This claim fits right along with "organic vegetables" and other hippie crap
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    I have not. There is just absolutely no reason to believe that multis consumed with food gets absorbed less than vitamins or minerals found in foods. I have atleast found zero evidence claiming so nor does it make sense in a biochemical POV. This claim fits right along with "organic vegetables" and other hippie crap
    Yes, some vitamins absorption is enhanced when co-administered with food, but that same food may decrease absorption of other vitamins contained within the same multivitamin. Again, i'm not saying multi-vitamin supplementation is a bad thing, I like me some Orange Triad any day.

    The one thing I don't like though is that certain vitamins interact with each other i.e. supplements that mix Iron and Calcium (luckily OT doesn't contain Iron) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1600930

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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    I have not. There is just absolutely no reason to believe that multis consumed with food gets absorbed less than vitamins or minerals found in foods. I have atleast found zero evidence claiming so nor does it make sense in a biochemical POV. This claim fits right along with "organic vegetables" and other hippie crap
    There are tons of reasons to believe this. Multivitamins are an agglomeration of some 20-30+ compounds, all with different solubilities, compacted into a dense core with minimal added excipients. Unlike food, a large bolus of vitamins and minerals is rapidly released from the MV, and they compete for intestinal transporters and intra-enterocyte transport/export/metabolism, which further worsens the situation.

    Note: Proper dissociation and exposure of microparticles to binding factors (i.e. b12-intrinsic factor) and the absorptive mucosa of the gut is kinetically limited and imprecise. There is good reason to believe that MVs have poor dissocation characteristics, and the data supports this (rather overwhelmingly).

    There is good reason that pharmaceutical companies haven't really pursued the multivitamin market. Getting FDA approval would prove...difficult.
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    Re: Multi vitamins worth it?


    Shhh.. ain't nobody got time for all that pesky science mumbo jumbo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liftin4fun View Post
    It will always be a debate to how much or how little they help. I prefer a well balanced diet. When I use Orange Triad I actually feel the befits for my joints.
    It helps my joints too. Also, I feel less bloating/heart burn and my BMs are more regular (TMI?)

    Multis are definitely worth it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Note: Proper dissociation and exposure of microparticles to binding factors (i.e. b12-intrinsic factor) and the absorptive mucosa of the gut is kinetically limited and imprecise. There is good reason to believe that MVs have poor dissocation characteristics, and the data supports this (rather overwhelmingly).

    There is good reason that pharmaceutical companies haven't really pursued the multivitamin market. Getting FDA approval would prove...difficult.
    You are basing this on the assumption that all vitamins are kinetically driven. Other then retinol and cobalamine, all other vitamins are perfectly capable of diffusing through the small intestinal membrane. Actually "a large bolus of vitamins" would be preferable over a small stream because you would like to exploit maximal absorption during the time food passes the small intestine.
    Minerals are highly competitive but the same principal follows consuming food, with the exception that you consume a little every meal instead of consuming a large chunk.

    There is nothing special with MVs, its the same stuff you are going to find in food. The fact that its very cost-efficient and convenient makes it a perfectly reasonable choice for someone who does not care enough for a varied diet.

    And pharmaceutical companies do not pursue MVs because its not possible to patent the involved compounds. They may only patent formulas and synthesis pathways which its not worth the time nor the money.


    You want to provide me that overwhelming data?
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