anti estrogens

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    anti estrogens


    What do you guys think about them? any input is appreciated... just want to get knowledge on them. Thanks

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    They can be quite useful for fat loss/"drying out." Erase is a favorite around here
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They can be quite useful for fat loss/"drying out." Erase is a favorite around here
    are they actually good for fat loss? i thought that was just a saying because of the drying effect
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    are they actually good for fat loss? i thought that was just a saying because of the drying effect
    The data is actually quite mixed on the topic, with suggestions that those with higher than normal/optimal levels could benefit. It honestly goes both ways, even with respect to muscle mass. Here's a nice read I had bookmarked:

    Weight Loss, Exercise And Health Research - Carrie P. Saylor - Google Books

    Note that aromatase activity is very low in skeletal muscle (and much higher in adipose tissue) so you don't have to be concerned in this regard. Just thought it was cool stuff
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    It would appear that inhibiting estrogen activity either by aromatase or direct antagonism is counter productive for fat loss. The articles i came across used aromatase, estrogen receptor and androgen receptor knockout mice. Some were gender specific and others were not.

    Aromatase and estrogen receptor knockout mice(males + females) showed greater fat accumulation, both visceral and peripheral. They also had increased insulin sensitivity and reduced leptin secretion. Androgen receptor knockout mice showed slight fat accumulation but also a large increase in lipase(and probably downstream increase in UCP) but they had normal insulin sensitivity and LPL levels.

    InVitro studies shows that androgens, but not estrogens, increase adrenergic alpha 2 expression in non specific tissue thus inhibiting lipolysis. On the other hand, androgens showed inhibition of adipocyte proliferation i.e. formation of new fatty cells whilst estrogen increases.
    Estrogens on the other hand resulted in increased adenylyl cyclase activity suggesting enhanced beta adrenoceptor activity and so increased downstream lipolytic activity.

    Based on the information provided above, i conclude healthy levels of estrogens is optimal for fat loss. Real life results may be completely different but most theories are based on vitro evidence, so using AAs may be counter productive.

    But then again, considering that plenty of fat burners contain a2 inhibitors in some form and that increased AR activity is muscle sparing, slight decreases(if any) is a low price to pay for holding on to hard earned muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They can be quite useful for fat loss/"drying out." Erase is a favorite around here
    Will agree on this one.

    Was taking Alphamine for 20 days and little change in my belly area even with light weight lifting 3x a week and almost no change in weight.

    Then 3 weeks break and I've started taking Erase Pro 3x/week 1 cap and in next 3 weeks without any exercise I've lost 1kg and even saw slightly 6 pack in belly area.

    Not to mention overall improvement in quality of sleep, mood - was very impressed not to mention convenience of taking 1 cap just 2 or 3x a week.

    Tried before also Erase at 3 caps a day for 6 days and all 6 days no morning wood but no such problem when taking Erase Pro.

    Which tells me everybody needs to find their sweet spot not to crush estrogen too low and wood is best indicator to tell you this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahh123 View Post

    Will agree on this one.

    Was taking Alphamine for 20 days and little change in my belly area even with light weight lifting 3x a week and almost no change in weight.

    Then 3 weeks break and I've started taking Erase Pro 3x/week 1 cap and in next 3 weeks without any exercise I've lost 1kg and even saw slightly 6 pack in belly area.

    Not to mention overall improvement in quality of sleep, mood - was very impressed not to mention convenience of taking 1 cap just 2 or 3x a week.

    Tried before also Erase at 3 caps a day for 6 days and all 6 days no morning wood but no such problem when taking Erase Pro.

    Which tells me everybody needs to find their sweet spot not to crush estrogen too low and wood is best indicator to tell you this.
    I avoid AIs as they kill my libido!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They can be quite useful for fat loss/"drying out." Erase is a favorite around here
    Coop speaks truth! Cool speaks truth!

    That kinda rhymes? Haha
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    anti estrogens


    I like Formasurge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They can be quite useful for fat loss/"drying out." Erase is a favorite around here
    I've seen people say that estrogen bounces back after use or something like that. ever heard of something like this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The data is actually quite mixed on the topic, with suggestions that those with higher than normal/optimal levels could benefit. It honestly goes both ways, even with respect to muscle mass. Here's a nice read I had bookmarked:

    Weight Loss, Exercise And Health Research - Carrie P. Saylor - Google Books

    Note that aromatase activity is very low in skeletal muscle (and much higher in adipose tissue) so you don't have to be concerned in this regard. Just thought it was cool stuff
    this. i dont think they do MUCH unless you have higher levels already. it will kill your libido
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    so would I have to worry about estrogen bouncjng back at all?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    It would appear that inhibiting estrogen activity either by aromatase or direct antagonism is counter productive for fat loss. The articles i came across used aromatase, estrogen receptor and androgen receptor knockout mice. Some were gender specific and others were not.

    Aromatase and estrogen receptor knockout mice(males + females) showed greater fat accumulation, both visceral and peripheral. They also had increased insulin sensitivity and reduced leptin secretion. Androgen receptor knockout mice showed slight fat accumulation but also a large increase in lipase(and probably downstream increase in UCP) but they had normal insulin sensitivity and LPL levels.

    InVitro studies shows that androgens, but not estrogens, increase adrenergic alpha 2 expression in non specific tissue thus inhibiting lipolysis. On the other hand, androgens showed inhibition of adipocyte proliferation i.e. formation of new fatty cells whilst estrogen increases.
    Estrogens on the other hand resulted in increased adenylyl cyclase activity suggesting enhanced beta adrenoceptor activity and so increased downstream lipolytic activity.

    Based on the information provided above, i conclude healthy levels of estrogens is optimal for fat loss. Real life results may be completely different but most theories are based on vitro evidence, so using AAs may be counter productive.

    But then again, considering that plenty of fat burners contain a2 inhibitors in some form and that increased AR activity is muscle sparing, slight decreases(if any) is a low price to pay for holding on to hard earned muscle.

    The data is definitely muddled, and obviously one cannot compare Erase to an estrogen knockout mouse. Plus, as you said, forskolin and/or rauwolscine would ameliorate any adrenergic effects that may arise, though I don't foresee such from a 4-8 week Erase cycle.

    To the others: Rebound is no concern, practically speaking
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    Now that I'm around 12-13 % even one dose of OG Erase dries out my joints...shame because I really enjoyed its 'drying out' effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    The data is definitely muddled, and obviously one cannot compare Erase to an estrogen knockout mouse. Plus, as you said, forskolin and/or rauwolscine would ameliorate any adrenergic effects that may arise, though I don't foresee such from a 4-8 week Erase cycle.

    To the others: Rebound is no concern, practically speaking
    so what would you say about formadrol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbons2 View Post
    so would I have to worry about estrogen bouncjng back at all?
    I just ran 75mg Erase for 60 days and I can report the answer is no. You may lose some of the "dryness" or vascularity you've gained while on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain13 View Post

    I just ran 75mg Erase for 60 days and I can report the answer is no. You may lose some of the "dryness" or vascularity you've gained while on it.
    sounds good to hear man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain13 View Post

    I just ran 75mg Erase for 60 days and I can report the answer is no. You may lose some of the "dryness" or vascularity you've gained while on it.
    I second this! Dries the joints out tho..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamski View Post

    I second this! Dries the joints out tho..
    the OG erase? can't beat the price.. looks promising too
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    I avoid AIs as they kill my libido!
    Even newer ones? Old ones, ATD based did, but newer ones like Reversitol V2, erase, etc. do not.


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    so erase is a good product?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbons2 View Post
    so erase is a good product?
    A great product
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post

    A great product
    was it easy to keep muscle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbons2 View Post

    was it easy to keep muscle?
    Keep muscle when? After I ran Erase or during?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post

    Keep muscle when? After I ran Erase or during?
    during. like did you build more muscle while on it? (sorry should've been more specific)
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbons2 View Post
    so erase is a good product?
    The only product!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbons2 View Post

    during. like did you build more muscle while on it? (sorry should've been more specific)
    Ya for sure. I gained some lean muscle mass and kept it post Erase use. I mean you wont gain a crazy amount of muscle but it is noticeable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post

    Ya for sure. I gained some lean muscle mass and kept it post Erase use. I mean you wont gain a crazy amount of muscle but it is noticeable.
    okay just curious. thanks man
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbons2 View Post

    okay just curious. thanks man
    No problem
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    Intimidate SRT will be on the market very soon.

    It contains 30mg of NMDA(the methylated cousin of DAA), and 500mg of Brassaiopsis Glomerulata per pill This active compound is Brassaiopsis was compared directly to Letrozole in the study. If you want an AI...this is definitely a great option!
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    morning wood and macuna prureins


    I took macuna low dose 5 years ago for moods after I quit smoking....thought it was the quit after 90 days that I could jump anyonesa bones

    Im looking to increase my test levels, been taking avena sativa and tribulius, not bad stopped the trib just 300 avena sativa but now increasing macuna extract to 700mg 2x...morning wood good, moods are much better

    Ive read into Erase pro, maybe Ive been goin backwards and should take an anti estrogen supp instead? and let Erase pro do its thing? any side effects from erase? sounds like it help me lose some body fat my bmI is 25
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