cissus xt for ligament pain?

[EatMoar]

So about 1.5 months ago I tore ligaments in my thumb, the condition was classified as "game keepers thumb" its that inside ligament of your thumb, forgot what it was called. Since that nice ligament tearing came with a fracture I did not need surgery since the ligament will heal with the fracture. I had a cast on for 5 weeks, checked every two weeks. Apparently the ligament reattached to the joint within two weeks and the other 3 was for the healing process.My doctor said that even after getting my cast off this my thumb will still be sore for at least 1-2 months. So I was wondering if supplementing with Cissus would be a decent way to keep my thumb ligament healthy and aid in the further healing process back to 100%.The only logs I saw were for joints, im curious about ligaments as they are different (of course : P ) .

[fightbackhxc]

I would suggest some MSM and chondroitin along with our cissus xt. I Have really enjoyed our cissus so far. Orange triad and cissus xt has been a popular combo.

[R1balla]

Orange Triad + Cissus would be very nice

[BioCor]

So about 1.5 months ago I tore ligaments in my thumb, the condition was classified as "game keepers thumb" its that inside ligament of your thumb, forgot what it was called. Since that nice ligament tearing came with a fracture I did not need surgery since the ligament will heal with the fracture. I had a cast on for 5 weeks, checked every two weeks. Apparently the ligament reattached to the joint within two weeks and the other 3 was for the healing process.My doctor said that even after getting my cast off this my thumb will still be sore for at least 1-2 months. So I was wondering if supplementing with Cissus would be a decent way to keep my thumb ligament healthy and aid in the further healing process back to 100%.The only logs I saw were for joints, im curious about ligaments as they are different (of course : P ) .

It will help after you are 100% healed in terms of strength but will do little to speed recovery. We sell Cissus powder as well but as I said, it won't do that much for recovery. Unfortunetly ligaments and tendons heal with a timeframe of their own and has more to do with strengthening the surrounding muscles ( in your case, its a bit tougher )

[mr.cooper69]

It will help after you are 100% healed in terms of strength but will do little to speed recovery. We sell Cissus powder as well but as I said, it won't do that much for recovery. Unfortunetly ligaments and tendons heal with a timeframe of their own and has more to do with strengthening the surrounding muscles ( in your case, its a bit tougher )

Cissus is a dual inhibitor of arachidonic acid pathways and has been shown in numerous studies to be anti-inflammatory. Reduction of local inflammation will accelerate the recovery process

[BioCor]

Cissus is a dual inhibitor of arachidonic acid pathways and has been shown in numerous studies to be anti-inflammatory. Reduction of local inflammation will accelerate the recovery process

But will do little in terms of long term tensile strength and speed in the conversion of type 3 to type 1 collagen fibers. Anti-inflammatory aspects of cissus wont help speed recovery all that much which can take up to a full year.

[mr.cooper69]

But will do little in terms of long term tensile strength and speed in the conversion of type 3 to type 1 collagen fibers. Anti-inflammatory aspects of cissus wont help speed that recovery all that much which can take up to a full year.

Conversion of type 3 to type 1? Eh..anyway, ligaments are primarily regular dense connective CT (type I collagen), and while the process of redeposition can take a while, it takes even longer if inflammation is present as is often the case during re-aggravation

[jonpaulevans]

great stuff guys - I've been suffering from right arm tricep/bicep/forearm tendon issues and left shoulder pain. I'll add cissus to my mix - Glucosamine is already taken daily.

[BioCor]

Yes, conversion. Generally the inital phase of collagen formation is type 3 for several weeks before conversion into the higher tensile strength type 1 which can take up to a full year depending on the injury. Localized inflamation at this point is pretty much nonexistant. I for one would love if cissus dramatically increased ligament healing, I would sell a lot more of it

[R1balla]

great stuff guys - I've been suffering from right arm tricep/bicep/forearm tendon issues and left shoulder pain. I'll add cissus to my mix - Glucosamine is already taken daily.

ive experienced the same and there is no better feeling for this (for me, at least) than getting in a hot bath tub (preferably a hot tub) and let your body soak.

[mr.cooper69]

Yes, conversion. Generally the inital phase of collagen formation is type 3 for several weeks before conversion into the higher tensile strength type 1 which can take up to a full year depending on the injury. Localized inflamation at this point is pretty much nonexistant. I for one would love if cissus dramatically increased ligament healing, I would sell a lot more of it

Collagen type III is biochemically very different from collagen type I, and once N/C-Peptidases have done their work outside the cell, it's pretty much a done deal. Do you have any source for the conversion of collagen III fibers to collagen I fibers? There are literally gaps in respective triple helices that I don't see being refilled without complete resynthesis from mRNA

[jonpaulevans]

Thank r1balla - I should be icing it more but I'll jump in the tub too. Can't hurt. Anyone recommend elbow wraps? A guy at my gym wears them all the time since he had tennis elbow and he claims the wraps helped him heal and keep him healthy...
I'm just not doing any "arm-specific" movements (curls, triceps extensions, etc) but I am benching and rowing which tend to aggravate the injuries slightly.

[BioCor]

Collagen type III is biochemically very different from collagen type I, and once N/C-Peptidases have done their work outside the cell, it's pretty much a done deal. Do you have any source for the conversion of collagen III fibers to collagen I fibers? There are literally gaps in respective triple helices that I don't see being refilled without complete resynthesis from mRNA

Of course its different, and one of main reason ligaments are prone to injury again until the formation of type I collagen is formed. Not sure what you are asking or want?

[BioCor]

Maybe the term "conversion" was misunderstood and I should have said re-orginization of type 3 to type 1 within the ligament? I didn't mean a physical conversion, rather a converison in the collagen makeup. Its different post injury vs a normal ligament. Initially there is a higher percentage of type 3 formed ( higher than a normal ligament ) before the formation of type I occurs. The point being that by the time the formation of type 1 collagen is formed, the inflammation phase is pretty much nonexistant. If there is another aspect of cissus that I am overlooking, then by all means let me know because I am missing something in my ad copy

[BioCor]

Thank r1balla - I should be icing it more but I'll jump in the tub too. Can't hurt. Anyone recommend elbow wraps? A guy at my gym wears them all the time since he had tennis elbow and he claims the wraps helped him heal and keep him healthy...
I'm just not doing any "arm-specific" movements (curls, triceps extensions, etc) but I am benching and rowing which tend to aggravate the injuries slightly.

Really depends on the injury. I've heard many people have success with the neoprene wraps with elbow pain but the opposite for knee pain. Compression is usually good unless you have something like Chondromalacia.

[mr.cooper69]

Maybe the term "conversion" was misunderstood and I should have said re-orginization of type 3 to type 1 within the ligament? I didn't mean a physical conversion, rather a converison in the collagen makeup. Its different post injury vs a normal ligament. Initially there is a higher percentage of type 3 formed ( higher than a normal ligament ) before the formation of type I occurs. The point being that by the time the formation of type 1 collagen is formed, the inflammation phase is pretty much nonexistant. If there is another aspect of cissus that I am overlooking, then by all means let me know because I am missing something in my ad copy

Oh, I re-read all your posts and now I get what you were saying. You will have to excuse me as I'm currently studying microanatomy so I think of everything on a cellular level rather than whole tissue.

In terms of inflammation, I was speaking more about inflammation in the case of re-aggaravation of the site, which I fear could be quite possible given that its his thumb.

[BioCor]

Oh, I re-read all your posts and now I get what you were saying. You will have to excuse me as I'm currently studying microanatomy so I think of everything on a cellular level rather than whole tissue.

In terms of inflammation, I was speaking more about inflammation in the case of re-aggaravation of the site, which I fear could be quite possible given that its his thumb.

That would explain it!

Usually stretching and strengthening would greatly decrease re-injury, but with a thumb thats tough to do! Talk about a boring rehab!

[EatMoar]

That would explain it!

Usually stretching and strengthening would greatly decrease re-injury, but with a thumb thats tough to do! Talk about a boring rehab!

mhm, alright ill just let it heal up for a couple more months then. This injury sucks so much, cant really rehab a thumb lol maybe move it from side to side is it :P It feels a lot better than it was though :P

[jonpaulevans]

can any of this info be applied to muscle strains/pulls? In my case I believe my tricep/elbow is tendon related pain whereas my bicep/forearm is possibly muscle pull.

[NomZ]

can any of this info be applied to muscle strains/pulls? In my case I believe my tricep/elbow is tendon related pain whereas my bicep/forearm is possibly muscle pull.

Yes, as inflammation in a fresh strain will be high, this is where cissus would be a benefit.