Agmatine, muscle builder or prostate breaker?

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  1. Agmatine, muscle builder or prostate breaker?


    Since few years companies are promoting Agmatine. And based on the user feedback it seems that it's working well for pump, vascularity and hypertrophy. But how safe is it in regard to prostate health? It seems that Agmatine increases synthesis of arachidonic acid in the body. Now It has been shown that arachidonic acid stimulates the growth of prostate cancer cells. Studies show that incidences of prostate cancer is greatest in regions with high consumption of foods rich in arachidonic acid. This leads to my question: is agmatine safe for men? And what impact does it have on our prostate?


  2. In for Coops response!
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  3. Actually it's one of his posts that reminded me of this possible relation between agmatine and prostate cancer.
    •   
       


  4. Also in for coops response. Good topic here

  5. This meta-analysis seems to say differently

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23249186

    CONCLUSIONS:

    The available epidemiologic evidence is weak because of the limited number of studies and their methodological limitations, but nonetheless, the results suggest that ARA exposure is not associated with increased breast and prostate cancer risk. Further evidence from well-designed observational studies is required to confirm or refute the association between ARA exposure and risk of cancer.
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  6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

    CONCLUSIONS:


    Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment

    http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

    Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.

  7. Just as an experienced supplement user:If you're > 35 years old....pass on it...nothing is worth cancer..nothing. If you use it, keep your dosing reasonable. MrBEEF

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  9. Quote Originally Posted by MrBEEF View Post
    Just as an experienced supplement user:If you're > 35 years old....pass on it...nothing is worth cancer..nothing. If you use it, keep your dosing reasonable. MrBEEF
    If there is a risk with it, I would say even young lifters should avoid it, since prostate cancer be present at young age and may remain dormant for several years or there could be non aggressive Low-grade prostate cancer That could be activated by archidonic acid.

  10. What about taking something like hemavol? I'm 45 & use hemavol twice a week.

  11. Agmentine is one of Hemavol ingredients. Therefore same concern.

  12. AIM:

    To assess the inhibitory effect of agmatine on tumor growth in vivo and tumor cell proliferation in vitro.


    CONCLUSION:

    Agmatine had significant inhibitory effect on transplanted tumor growth in vivo and proliferation of tumor cells in vitro, and the mechanism might be a result of inducing decrease of intracellular polyamine contents.

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15842783

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Ballesteri View Post
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

    CONCLUSIONS:


    Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment

    http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

    Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.
    This is also a meta-study, meaning that they did not actually do any experiments. They searched pubmed and wrote a paper. Also, they are looking at the Arachidonic acid pathway and how they can manipulate it to prevent prostate cancer. Go here and look at figure #2 http://prostate-cancer.org/what-we-s...past-10-years/

    This thread is making huge leaps and is only going to lead to fear backed up with no data, just like the whole DAA thing. 1) Agmatine supplementation is not Arachidonic Acid supplementation. Yes there is a connection, but not the same thing and you cannot just cite AA studies to say that agmatine is dangerous. 2) None of these studies is saying that AA supplementation is going to increase your risk of prostate cancer. The pathway has more than one branch.
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  14. Good! Cause I'm not giving up my hemavol..... lol

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    This meta-analysis seems to say differently...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    This is also a meta-study...
    Nifty

  16. Arachidonic acid is not causative of cancer. If you have cancer (or a genetic mutation that predisposes you [2-hit hypothesis]), then ArA supplementation may not be the best idea.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    This is also a meta-study, meaning that they did not actually do any experiments. They searched pubmed and wrote a paper. Also, they are looking at the Arachidonic acid pathway and how they can manipulate it to prevent prostate cancer. Go here and look at figure #2 http://prostate-cancer.org/what-we-s...past-10-years/This thread is making huge leaps and is only going to lead to fear backed up with no data, just like the whole DAA thing. 1) Agmatine supplementation is not Arachidonic Acid supplementation. Yes there is a connection, but not the same thing and you cannot just cite AA studies to say that agmatine is dangerous. 2) None of these studies is saying that AA supplementation is going to increase your risk of prostate cancer. The pathway has more than one branch.
    Well said. Arachidonic acid has many, many endpoints.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Ballesteri View Post
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

    CONCLUSIONS:


    Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment

    http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

    Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.
    The amount of ArA that gets converted to 5-HETE in vivo is ridiculously low compared to its prime metabolites. You have to remember cancer is first and foremost a genetic disease.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by Ballesteri View Post
    Nifty
    I wasn't picking on you, but I was also upfront that the paper that I presented was a meta-study. I looked yours up and read the paper which is how I knew.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Arachidonic acid is not causative of cancer. If you have cancer (or a genetic mutation that predisposes you [2-hit hypothesis]), then ArA supplementation may not be the best idea.
    You know that most prostate Cancer remain dormant for many years. And you are saying to stay away from ARA in case of cancer. Therefore potentially every body should stay away from ARA or agmatine since nobody knows for sure if there are some cancerous cell in their body or if they are genetically prone to cancer. This is not a suggestion but just a thought

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post

    This thread is making huge leaps and is only going to lead to fear backed up with no data, just like the whole DAA thing. 1) Agmatine supplementation is not Arachidonic Acid supplementation. Yes there is a connection, but not the same thing and you cannot just cite AA studies to say that agmatine is dangerous. 2) None of these studies is saying that AA supplementation is going to increase your risk of prostate cancer. The pathway has more than one branch.
    We are not saying ARA is dangerous. We don't know. I just raised a point.
    I do not have any data saying it is dangerous. But does any body have any data proving it is safe?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    We are not saying ARA is dangerous. We don't know. I just raised a point.
    I do not have any data saying it is dangerous. But does any body have any data proving it is safe?
    I take no issue with bringing up health and safety concerns, but it is reckless to start holding up a supplement and saying the word cancer. Your original post makes some pretty specific and damaging claims. Can you please at least give us a source of where you are getting these claims from?
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    We are not saying ARA is dangerous. We don't know. I just raised a point.
    I do not have any data saying it is dangerous. But does any body have any data proving it is safe?
    Also, again, which supplement are we debating here? Agmatine or ARA? They are not one in the same and should not be used interchangeably.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    You know that most prostate Cancer remain dormant for many years. And you are saying to stay away from ARA in case of cancer. Therefore potentially every body should stay away from ARA or agmatine since nobody knows for sure if there are some cancerous cell in their body or if they are genetically prone to cancer. This is not a suggestion but just a thought

    90% of autopsies in men who died of natural causes reveal that the individual had prostate cancer (not the cause of death).


    ArA is an EFA used for a ton of signaling pathways, and many individuals who supplement fish oil can disrupt the ratio of epa/dha to ara over time. The key has always been balance, and a brief run of ArA will transiently increase the ArA ratio before returning back to a "balanced" state thereafer.


    Agmatine is a completely different story and it would be illogical to extrapolate prostate cancer data to agmatine. To put the scale in perspective, it's like saying sunlight causes skin cancer, therefore going for a walk will cause skin cancer.


    Btw, you persian? I noticed the rostam username
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post

    I take no issue with bringing up health and safety concerns, but it is reckless to start holding up a supplement and saying the word cancer. Your original post makes some pretty specific and damaging claims. Can you please at least give us a source of where you are getting these claims from?
    What claims are you talking about? Read my post, there was no claim in it, only questions and concerns.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    Since few years companies are promoting Agmatine. And based on the user feedback it seems that it's working well for pump, vascularity and hypertrophy. But how safe is it in regard to prostate health? It seems that Agmatine increases synthesis of arachidonic acid in the body. Now It has been shown that arachidonic acid stimulates the growth of prostate cancer cells. Studies show that incidences of prostate cancer is greatest in regions with high consumption of foods rich in arachidonic acid. This leads to my question: is agmatine safe for men? And what impact does it have on our prostate?
    Umm...those
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  27. Watching this thread due to my age of 52 and my use of agmatine. Here is a link to what I think is the research:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18343442/

  28. Interesting that this research shows that agmatine can have anti- proliferation effects:

    http://m.molpharm.aspetjournals.org/.../71/1/276.full

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post

    Umm...those
    These are not claims but facts. Agmatine increase the synthesis of ARA, this is not a claim but a fact. And studies have linked ARA to possible increased rate of cancer, again this not a claim. there are plenty of study about that. You can have a look at Pubmed.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Ballesteri View Post
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18343442

    CONCLUSIONS:


    Evolving data suggest a significant role for some areas of the arachidonic acid pathway in prostate cancer. Inhibiting 1 or a number of these enzymes in combination may hold promise for future prostate cancer treatment.

    http://www.prostateforum.com/about-dr-myers.html

    Myers major activities revolved around prostate cancer treatment and research. His laboratory research was focused on why a diet high in animal fat appears to foster progression in prostate cancer. His research group demonstrated that a fatty acid, arachidonic acid, common in meat, dairy products, and egg yolks promotes the survival and growth of human prostate cancer cells. They showed that arachidonic acid is converted to a hormone, 5-HETE, which appears to foster the spread of prostate cancer.
    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    Watching this thread due to my age of 52 and my use of agmatine. Here is a link to what I think is the research:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18343442/
    ...

  31. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    These are not claims but facts. Agmatine increase the synthesis of ARA, this is not a claim but a fact. And studies have linked ARA to possible increased rate of cancer, again this not a claim. there are plenty of study about that. You can have a look at Pubmed.
    And I will continue to call this complete bull**** and say that you are using scare tactics based on not a single shread of evidence until you post studies to back up your claims. And please post papers that you have actually read, not random abstracts from pubmed. This board is meant to educate, not to make wild claims backed up by no data which will only serve to confuse and cause fear when there is none.
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  32. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post

    These are not claims but facts. Agmatine increase the synthesis of ARA, this is not a claim but a fact. And studies have linked ARA to possible increased rate of cancer, again this not a claim. there are plenty of study about that. You can have a look at Pubmed.
    Agmatine isn't going to give you cancer. I don't want to be the meat head that goes "durp, take this it's completely safe!"...except that is the case here.

    To me, what you're saying is - "don't work out, because working out raises Testosterone, and that causes prostate cancer"
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  33. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    And I will continue to call this complete bull**** and say that you are using scare tactics based on not a single shread of evidence until you post studies to back up your claims. And please post papers that you have actually read, not random abstracts from pubmed. This board is meant to educate, not to make wild claims backed up by no data which will only serve to confuse and cause fear when there is none.
    Then don't waist your time in this Thread.

  34. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    Then don't waist your time in this Thread.
    I'm a fan of keeping the board full of facts and actually backing up claims with research, so I will be staying thanks!!!
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  35. Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    Agmatine isn't going to give you cancer. I don't want to be the meat head that goes "durp, take this it's completely safe!"...except that is the case here.

    To me, what you're saying is - "don't work out, because working out raises Testosterone, and that causes prostate cancer"
    People are free to beleave what ever they want. If you 100% confident with whatever product you take then this is fine. For my part I prefer to raise questions even if it does not plese most of people. I'm not claiming anything I just presented some facts. this is a fact that Agmatine increases the sysnthesis of ARA. and based on various studies it seems that ARA contribute to prostate cancer or at least to it's progression. I did not force anybody to stop using agmatine or any other product.

  36. In for a real study and real answers. Ill hop on for some research in a bit.

  37. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    People are free to beleave what ever they want. If you 100% confident with whatever product you take then this is fine. For my part I prefer to raise questions even if it does not plese most of people. I'm not claiming anything I just presented some facts. this is a fact that Agmatine increases the sysnthesis of ARA. and based on various studies it seems that ARA contribute to prostate cancer or at least to it's progression. I did not force anybody to stop using agmatine or any other product.
    For the last time, your opinions are not facts! You have yet to cite a single source and we can not have a productive debate unless you do. Saying they are facts over and over again does not make it true!
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  38. What is not a fact? the mechanisme of action of Agmatine?

  39. Quote Originally Posted by Rostam View Post
    Since few years companies are promoting Agmatine. And based on the user feedback it seems that it's working well for pump, vascularity and hypertrophy. But how safe is it in regard to prostate health? It seems that Agmatine increases synthesis of arachidonic acid in the body. Now It has been shown that arachidonic acid stimulates the growth of prostate cancer cells. Studies show that incidences of prostate cancer is greatest in regions with high consumption of foods rich in arachidonic acid. This leads to my question: is agmatine safe for men? And what impact does it have on our prostate?
    I highlighted your 3 original claims (again). Do you have studies or even a webpage or even a wikipedia page or even anything to back these claims up? This should not be that hard to understand.
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  40. Do you need a study to show you the mechanism of action of agmatine?
  

  
 

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