honkeykong
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With the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?
Yea I just got Jack3d micro. Its not as strong as original but its still good. I used original Jack3d continuously for quite some time with no problems but I only did one scoopWith the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?
What are you looking for in your pre-workout?With the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?
From the sounds of it, something that won't kill him lolWhat are you looking for in your pre-workout?
What's up biased? How have you been man?call me biast but formutech's volatile is awesome. the pumps, taste, and extreme focus provide some killer workouts. feel free to ask any questions
oh, you know....What's up biased? How have you been man?
- Valdez
i have other names in mind to call you..call me biast
Do you feel a 40 minute VO2 max workout (Kettlebell snatches) falls into this category?I personally have used jack3d over the years off and on and have not had any issues dosing it around 1&1/2 scoops pre workout. I think the where people can get into trouble is they try to use this product which was designed for weight training in other venues such as marathon running, high intensity training,... things that put sustained stress on the heart for longer durations than weight training. Lately i've switched to the Jack3d Micro formula and have found that while the stimulation effect is much different (and perhaps lighter), my performance is actually better. If you are still concerned about health issues with Jack3d, I'd encourage you to try out Jack3d Micro.
I see your point but to play devils advocate here, driving and medical advice can hardly be considered analogous to using a pre workout. Like I said, I understand what you're saying but medical interventions and driving are necessities for most, where a preworkout can be chosen accordingly.realistically tho: how many hundreds of thousands of ppl (even millions) do you think have used jack3d and other DMAA-containing products, and were just fine? the minute % of deaths from this - for whatever reason (mostly operator error imo) - are less (far less) than the % of deaths of ppl traveling on the road
medical error is the cause of thousands of deaths each yr, but you don't hear about this..
so, unless you want to start the same kind of thread regarding "is it worth it to drive?" or "is it worth it to seek medical guidance?", i think you should consider the context we are speaking in here.
surely i understand your pointI see your point but to play devils advocate here, driving and medical advice can hardly be considered analogous to using a pre workout. Like I said, I understand what you're saying but medical interventions and driving are necessities for most, where a preworkout can be chosen accordingly.
Would I choose a preworkout that has a history of deaths occurring with use, or something that has never been linked to fatalities? Me personally, I'd opt for something that hasn't been involved in the deaths of the users. I operate on risk vs reward and death is a pretty big risk to take for a preworkout supplement; when I can easily opt for an alternative product.
That's just me.
- Valdez
It's a very popular preworkout. What do you look for in a preworkout?With the recent bad press, is this pre workout mix really worth it? Or are there better pre workout powders?
Tbh I've never even dabbled I like to err on the side of caution. Am I being overly cautious? More than likely but its worked thus far lol. Plus, I've never had to use a "fat burner". I've always had the trouble of gaining and keeping, let alone trying to burn. Sure I've used supplements that potentiate fat loss but never something with the primary MOA of fat loss.surely i understand your point
okay then, let's ponder: if you could still get hold of ephedra, for the (anecdotally speaking) all-time BEST fat-loss combo ECA -- would you?
i seeTbh I've never even dabbled I like to err on the side of caution. Am I being overly cautious? More than likely but its worked thus far lol. Plus, I've never had to use a "fat burner". I've always had the trouble of gaining and keeping, let alone trying to burn. Sure I've used supplements that potentiate fat loss but never something with the primary MOA of fat loss.
- Valdez
I think that's up to the individual to decide. IMO if you are making your heart pump at its max output for a sustained period as such, then I'd opt to use jack3d micro. But that's just my opinion on the matter. I utilize both formulas when I'm not on a stim free cycle. Micro on upper body days and Jack3d on leg days. On cardio days I will use some DMAA OEP but I try to keep my heart rate right around 120. I've done a few VO2 max's in my day. Seen my heart rate hit 218, I wouldn't want any stims in me while doing this.Do you feel a 40 minute VO2 max workout (Kettlebell snatches) falls into this category?
I 100% agree. I had an argument with this guy at work who does not believe in supplements and he sent me the article in which some lady in Europe I think recently died after a marathon she was running, and the medical examiner said it was heart failure compounded by DMAA. I told him that Jack3d appears to be made for bodybuilders, NOT marathon runners who run for hours with an elevated heart rate and normally are nutrient deficient AND don't drink enough water. I also think Jack3d is a little strong for women. Even the military guys who died were not working out, but doing exercises that raised their hr for HOURS at a time. This being said, I stopped using Jack3d just in case there is a valid issue with the product. That and the fact that there are FAR better pwo products out there.I personally have used jack3d over the years off and on and have not had any issues dosing it around 1&1/2 scoops pre workout. I think the where people can get into trouble is they try to use this product which was designed for weight training in other venues such as marathon running, high intensity training,... things that put sustained stress on the heart for longer durations than weight training. Lately i've switched to the Jack3d Micro formula and have found that while the stimulation effect is much different (and perhaps lighter), my performance is actually better. If you are still concerned about health issues with Jack3d, I'd encourage you to try out Jack3d Micro.
first boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary causeI 100% agree. I had an argument with this guy at work who does not believe in supplements and he sent me the article in which some lady in Europe I think recently died after a marathon she was running, and the medical examiner said it was heart failure compounded by DMAA. I told him that Jack3d appears to be made for bodybuilders, NOT marathon runners who run for hours with an elevated heart rate and normally are nutrient deficient AND don't drink enough water. I also think Jack3d is a little strong for women. Even the military guys who died were not working out, but doing exercises that raised their hr for HOURS at a time.
I agree. I remember reading in a running mag that marathon runners are at a substantialy increased risk of heart attack during and after competition. I would speculate that if DMAA had a role to play in this womans untimely death that it was because it exacerbated a preexisting condition or set of risk factors. I find the deaths of the the two soldiers a bit more alarming as it would seem to rule out any preexisting condition theory. In both cases we do not even know the amount of DMAA consumed which is an important factor. In the case of the two soldiers (God rest their souls) a possible overdose seems more probable. At the end of the day the data does not lie. The number of DMAA consumers VS the number of reported adverse reactions/Deaths convinces me that it is safe if used as directed, at least in the short term. Caffiene can kill if you take to much too.first boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary cause
we can sit here and speculate all day..does nobody any good
second boldened: again - this would be your opinion, not factual, and IMO not even clearly stated by you, on the platform you are espousing
too strong fro women? really? at what dose? or just period? pure speculation, on your part
very nice, well saidI agree. I remember reading in a running mag that marathon runners are at a substantialy increased risk of heart attack during and after competition. I would speculate that if DMAA had a role to play in this womans untimely death that it was because it exacerbated a preexisting condition or set of risk factors. I find the deaths of the the two soldiers a bit more alarming as it would seem to rule out any preexisting condition theory. In both cases we do not even know the amount of DMAA consumed which is an important factor. In the case of the two soldiers (God rest their souls) a possible overdose seems more probable. At the end of the day the data does not lie. The number of DMAA consumers VS the number of reported adverse reactions/Deaths convinces me that it is safe if used as directed, at least in the short term. Caffiene can kill if you take to much too.
The medical examiner said her condition was exacerbated by the use of DMAA, not me. DMAA was not said to be the primary cause of her death, but a contributing factor. And sure, my personal speculation is that I personally think Jack3d is too strong for most women, but that's just my opinion. That's not to say women have not taken it without incident, but I am 240-250lbs and Jack3d has a profound effect on me, so I can't imagine a 100lb woman 1/2 my size taking this without issue. If women do use Jack3d, I would think it would be far safer to take it for the gym lifting weights, not running a marathon as I still don't think Jack3d was designed for that. I take separate, cardio supps for my cardio daysfirst boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary cause
we can sit here and speculate all day..does nobody any good
second boldened: again - this would be your opinion, not factual, and IMO not even clearly stated by you, on the platform you are espousing
too strong fro women? really? at what dose? or just period?
pure speculation, on your part
The medical examiner said her condition was exacerbated by the use of DMAA, not me. DMAA was not said to be the primary cause of her death, but a contributing factor. And sure, my personal speculation is that I personally think Jack3d is too strong for most women, but that's just my opinion. That's not to say women have not taken it without incident, but I am 240-250lbs and Jack3d has a profound effect on me, so I can't imagine a 100lb woman 1/2 my size taking this without issue. If women do use Jack3d, I would think it would be far safer to take it for the gym lifting weights, not running a marathon as I still don't think Jack3d was designed for that. I take separate, cardio supps for my cardio daysfirst boldened: see that's the thing..you have multiple causes here (and there are more reasons contributing to those reasons..) you cannot unquestionably determine that DMAA had anything to do with being primary cause
we can sit here and speculate all day..does nobody any good
second boldened: again - this would be your opinion, not factual, and IMO not even clearly stated by you, on the platform you are espousing
too strong fro women? really? at what dose? or just period?
pure speculation, on your part
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