Have High Hemoglobin bad LDL levels, some advice plz

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    Have High Hemoglobin bad LDL levels, some advice plz


    So I went to the doctor for a routine checkup because I hadn't been in awhile. I was having eye twitches and some light muscle spasms. I had my blood pressure taken and some blood work done. My blood pressure was 130/100. The doctor put me on metroprolol which is a beta blocker to lower my blood pressure. (Haven't yet taken) I had been eating a very terrible diet consisting of 5000+ Calories a day composed of all fast food. So I changed my diet and cut out fast food and tried to cut out processed garbage. Lowered my sodium intake to around 1500 Mg a day. I bought a BP monitor to use at home and keep track. Within a few days my BP dropped. I had several reading below 120/75 and as low as 115/65. On Occasion though my BP spikes all the to 160's/96+. So after two weeks I went into the doctors office for a follow up. That morning my bp was 120/72 at home. I brought my BP monitor to the office to test mine against theirs . Theirs read me at 160/90 and mine 156/95. There's a few thing that are really bad on my blood work. I basically need some advice and insight as to what could really cause these as well as supplement/Nutrition advice to get these numbers down. There seems to a lot of conflicting research on the subject.

    NMR Lipoprofile
    LDL Particle Number
    Very High
    LDL-P= 2154 nmol/L <1000


    Lipids
    LDL-C = 148 mg/dl <100 mg/dl
    Very High

    HDL-C= 35 >=40 mg/dl
    Low
    Triglycerides =99 <150 mg/dl
    Low
    Cholesterol, Total= 203 mg/d
    High


    LDL and HDL Particles
    HDL=P(Total) =30.0 umol/L >=30.5
    Low
    Small LDL-P = 1403 <=527
    Way-Way too high

    LDL Size = 20.2 > 20.5
    Low

    Insulin Resistance Score
    LP-IR Score = 60 <=45
    High


    CBC With Differential/Platelet

    WBC=6.1 x10e3/ul 4.0-10.5
    RBC=5.45 x10e6/ul 4.14-5.80

    Hemoglobin= 18.5 g/dL 12.6-17.7
    High
    Hematocrit = 50.0 % 37.5-51.0
    MCV =92 fL 79-97
    MCH=33.9 pg 26.6-33.0
    High
    MCHW = 37.0 g/dL 31.5-35.7
    High
    rdw= 13.5 % 12.3-15.4
    Platelets=237 x10e3/ul 140-415
    Neutrophils (Absolute)= 3.6 1.8-7.8
    Lymphs=2.1 0.7-4.5
    Monocytes=0.2 0.1-1.0
    Eos=0.1 0.0-0.2
    Baso=1 % 0-2
    Immature Granulocytes=1 % 0-2


    Com. Metabolic Panel
    Glucose, Serum 77 mg/dl 65-99
    BUN =11 MG/dL 6-20
    Creatinine, Serum =1.21 0.76-1.27
    eGFR =83 >59
    BUn/Creatinine Ratio= 9 8-19


    Sodium/ Serum= 140 134-144
    Potassium, Serum =4.5 3.5-5.2
    Chloride, Serum= 100 97-108
    Carbon Dioxide, Total= 22 20-32
    Calcium, Serum = 10.1 8.7-10.2
    Protein, total, Serum 7.7 6.0-8.5
    Albumin, Serum= 5.3 3.5-5.5
    Globulin= 2.4 1.5-4.5
    A/G Ratio=2.2 1.1-2.5
    BiliRubin= 0.7 0.0-1.2
    Alkaline Phosphatase , S =86 25-150
    AST(SGOT)= 23 0-40
    ALT(SGPT)=33 0-44

    Hemoglobin A1C= 5.0 % 4.8-5.6
    TSH= 2.650 0.450-4.500

    Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy= 19.8 ng/ML 30.0-100
    Low


    So as you can see, I have very screwed up Lipids and I'm very defiecient in Vitamin D which has been linked to poor cholesterol and high blood pressure. I have had High Hemoglobin for several years now and will be going to see a hematologist. So now the doctor put me on Lipitor(understandable) and Metropolol. I changed my diet to low carb as from reading, this seems to be supported by the newest research.(correct me If I'm wrong) I'm looking at adding more Omega 3's in my diet and cutting back on Red Meat. I really hate the idea of Lipitor and beta blockers at 24 years old, especially going into a cut. So I would like to get my diet straight(For healthier Lipids) and I'm looking into support supplements to help with heart health, for when I come off of the drugs

    The Supplements I'm looking into for support are:
    Anteus Labs Talos
    Coenzyme Q10=Heart Health especially if I'm taking Lipitor
    Astillbin=Blood Pressure


    Trans-Resveratrol=Antioxidant, possible lowering Hemoglobin, possible Cholesterol support
    Salicylic acid= Reduces Risk for clots. High Hemoglobin means I likely have thick blood.
    B9,B6, and B12= More heart Health
    Astaxanthin= Antioxidant+possible Cholesterol support
    SamE= Liver + antioxidant
    Blackrice=extract acts as a natural statin


    Iforce Heart Help

    Orange Triad
    Multi+Joint

    Now Super Omega EPA
    Omega 3s, Heart health/Reduced inflamation


    Others(Possibly):
    Curcumin
    TMG
    NAC
    RLA
    L-Taurine
    Creatine
    Protein Powder.



    What do you think?





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    proper diet and nutrition plays a key role in LDL and HDL. what do you eat? and high hgb can be scary. def stay on top of that. can be anemia or other problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    proper diet and nutrition plays a key role in LDL and HDL. what do you eat? and high hgb can be scary. def stay on top of that. can be anemia or other problems.
    High Hb is literally the opposite of anemia
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    Ok, here's the reality: you need medication, not supplements.

    Ask your physician to put you on low-dosed statins for the cholesterol issue. DO NOT take heart help as they are both HMG-CoA Reductase inhibitors.

    For triglycerides, physicians will often recommend some OTC supplements: 2-3 epa/dha via fish oil and niacin (which aids with cholesterol too). Run both of these by your physician.

    The LDL-P is the actual causal marker of atherosclerosis, and it will decrease as you limit dietary saturated fat and cholesterol intake and exercise regularly with a statin.

    You also have high hemoglobin and a high concentration of hemoglobin per RBC. However, it is BARELY out of range. Hb transcription may be upregulated because you may have an unusually low hemoglobin % O2 saturation. Exercise, especially cardio, will help to this end. It's not an immediate cause for concern though, as long as you make the proper lifestyle changes. If you are a smoker, the transient rise in blood carbon monoxide and cumulatively upregulate Hb transcription as well. So do your best to quit smoking if that's an issue.

    Lastly, talk to your physician about supplementing Vitamin D, which should also help bring other values into range. I don't think you have heavy cause for concern because all of your out-of-range values are inter-related, but again, talk to your doctor. Do not self-medicate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    High Hb is literally the opposite of anemia
    i feel dumb hahaha my mind is literally washed right now with school!
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    I had very similier cholestorol numbers (I remember 212 total and 30 hdl) at your age

    I cut out fast food, increased fiber intake, took a multi and fish oil, did cardio 2-3 times a week and lost bit of bodyfat

    It took a bit over 18months for everything to be in the good range but I never had an RX and my doctor never tried to give me one. I think its crazy your doctor jumped right on the rx route at your age.

    I'm curious what your bodyfat levels are like and if you have used any ph/ps in the past
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSNeves View Post
    I had very similier cholestorol numbers (I remember 212 total and 30 hdl) at your age

    I cut out fast food, increased fiber intake, took a multi and fish oil, did cardio 2-3 times a week and lost bit of bodyfat

    It took a bit over 18months for everything to be in the good range but I never had an RX and my doctor never tried to give me one. I think its crazy your doctor jumped right on the rx route at your age.

    I'm curious what your bodyfat levels are like and if you have used any ph/ps in the past
    Statins are exceptionally safe and recent data shows that they are effective even when taken during the second decade of life (teenage years). It's no different than taking a supplement like a multi or fish oil to help with health issues; it's benign and effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Statins are exceptionally safe and recent data shows that they are effective even when taken during the second decade of life (teenage years). It's no different than taking a supplement like a multi or fish oil to help with health issues; it's benign and effective.
    I too just had recent blood work and my LDL is 227. Never had any issues before. Ever. I haven't had bloods done in about a year. During this year I have been on craze much of the time. I felt vasoconstriction big time as I would have cold extremities immediately after. Is there a correlation or causation between CNS stimulants, vasoconstriction, and high cholesterol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    I too just had recent blood work and my LDL is 227. Never had any issues before. Ever. I haven't had bloods done in about a year. During this year I have been on craze much of the time. I felt vasoconstriction big time as I would have cold extremities immediately after. Is there a correlation or causation between CNS stimulants, vasoconstriction, and high cholesterol?
    High LDL-P -> atherosclerosis -> vasoconstrictionStimulants -> bloodflow redirected via local receptor activity -> vasoconstrictionApart from both causing vasoconstriction, there's really no relationship.What other lifestyle changes have you made in the past year? Done any bulking cycles?
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    Yeah but nothing out of the ordinary from past years. Maybe I'm looking for something to blame other than myself?! Haha. But in all honesty I have had some serious heart/chest pains from craze and have since stopped. Love the feeling from it but it isn't worth my heart. Just made the leap in my mind as I have never had any real sides from products...especially pre's until craze.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    Yeah but nothing out of the ordinary from past years. Maybe I'm looking for something to blame other than myself?! Haha. But in all honesty I have had some serious heart/chest pains from craze and have since stopped. Love the feeling from it but it isn't worth my heart. Just made the leap in my mind as I have never had any real sides from products...especially pre's until craze.
    I will say that sympatholytic agents have so-so data showing they improve LDL numbers. Craze, being a sympathomimetic, may have the opposite effect, but that is just raw speculation.
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    Thanks. I'm pretty in tune with my body and nothing has ever messed with it as much as craze. Not even prohormones. So when the test came back that was my first thought. I was taking it 5 or 6 days a week for a good part of the year w only a few breaks :/ my doc wants me to retest in a month so we will see. I have stopped craze completely and cleaned up the diet a little. Is the myostatin in all US red Yeast pills removed?
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    I wouldn't be overly concerned with your values. Your cholesterol levels are not unreal, i've seen much, much worse, but then again something needs to be done. If you truly no you are lazy and your diet sucks, then fix it. If you bust your ass everyday and eat a very clean diet and do everything right, you are going to need some kind of management whether you want to try otc first with heart help, or the pharmacologic route.

    Just so you no, my hemaglobin and crit were always in range.. my hct was always 45 for a long while. I started getting really tired, waking up at night a lot, fast heart rate upon waking, and my hct kept going up.. once it got to 54, I was convinced sleep apnea was the cause. I got a cpap.. my hct has fallen greatly, my blood pressure has dropped, my anxiety is much better, etc.
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    Also,

    You don't have "thick blood" because your hematocrit, MCV, and RBC are in range. You just have an unusual amount of Hb per RBC.

    A recent study showed no merit in consuming CoQ10 with statins, but you can go for it. 81mg Aspirin is always a good idea. None of the other stuff is worth looking into besides fish oil and niacin. So, supplementally, you can ask your doctor about:

    1. CoQ10
    2. Aspirin (81mg)
    3. Fish Oil
    4. Niacin

    Quote Originally Posted by xGenericx View Post

    The Supplements I'm looking into for support are:
    Anteus Labs Talos
    Coenzyme Q10=Heart Health especially if I'm taking Lipitor
    Astillbin=Blood Pressure


    Trans-Resveratrol=Antioxidant, possible lowering Hemoglobin, possible Cholesterol support
    Salicylic acid= Reduces Risk for clots. High Hemoglobin means I likely have thick blood.
    B9,B6, and B12= More heart Health
    Astaxanthin= Antioxidant+possible Cholesterol support
    SamE= Liver + antioxidant
    Blackrice=extract acts as a natural statin


    Iforce Heart Help

    Orange Triad
    Multi+Joint

    Now Super Omega EPA
    Omega 3s, Heart health/Reduced inflamation


    Others(Possibly):
    Curcumin
    TMG
    NAC
    RLA
    L-Taurine
    Creatine
    Protein Powder.



    What do you think?



    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSNeves View Post
    I had very similier cholestorol numbers (I remember 212 total and 30 hdl) at your age

    I cut out fast food, increased fiber intake, took a multi and fish oil, did cardio 2-3 times a week and lost bit of bodyfat

    It took a bit over 18months for everything to be in the good range but I never had an RX and my doctor never tried to give me one. I think its crazy your doctor jumped right on the rx route at your age.

    I'm curious what your bodyfat levels are like and if you have used any ph/ps in the past
    It was at 19% now around 16- 17%.

    Awesome advice guys! For the past week I've cut out fast food and I'm eating less carbs/Saturated Fat. I have not added a lot of fibers or EFAs to my diet yet, but I plan too write out my meals for the weeks every Saturday. I don't think I'll be able to follow it otherwise. The Sleep Apnea makes sense, my father has Sleep Apnea. I'll talk to my Physician about adding Aspirin in. Coop; what are your thoughts on Metrprolol and effects on insulin sensitivity? My LP-IR score was high. Would it help that number, or hurt it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xGenericx View Post
    It was at 19% now around 16- 17%.Awesome advice guys! For the past week I've cut out fast food and I'm eating less carbs/Saturated Fat. I have not added a lot of fibers or EFAs to my diet yet, but I plan too write out my meals for the weeks every Saturday. I don't think I'll be able to follow it otherwise. The Sleep Apnea makes sense, my father has Sleep Apnea. I'll talk to my Physician about adding Aspirin in. Coop; what are your thoughts on Metrprolol and effects on insulin sensitivity? My LP-IR score was high. Would it help that number, or hurt it?
    You are taking it for hypertension, not insulin sensitivity. Prior glycogen depletion in skeletal muscle amplifies GLUT4 translocation in response to elevated blood glucose. So if you want to improve insulin sensitivity, exercise exercise exercise (especially weight training).
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Statins are exceptionally safe...
    They can be hard on your liver, try Red Yeast Rice with policosanol before getting on statins

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Also,



    A recent study showed no merit in consuming CoQ10 with statins...


    CoQ10 helps protect the liver, you have to take these studies with more grains of salt than one.
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    I just turned 55 and have had blood analysis. I agree with all these postings. The recommended supplements for me for cholesterol and overall health:
    - Red Yeast Rice
    - Niacin
    - CoQ10
    - O3 fish oil
    - 83mg aspirin
    - 4000 iu D3

    I have been reading about the added benefits of anti-inflammation agents - aspirin/curcumin, so Turmeric was added.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You are taking it for hypertension, not insulin sensitivity. Prior glycogen depletion in skeletal muscle amplifies GLUT4 translocation in response to elevated blood glucose. So if you want to improve insulin sensitivity, exercise exercise exercise (especially weight training).
    Don't get me wrong I know its for hypertension , I'm still taking it regardless. I was just curious as it seems it may make it a little harder to lose weight. I'll be on a low dose of 25mg though. I see what your saying. I just read that in this abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10331428 I don't have type 2 diabetes, but I was on my way there.
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    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/i...-capsules.html

    clinically proven to lower LDL and increase HDL.

    a member on another forum had his wife use it, and she saw a 30% increase in HDL and a 48% decrease in LDL in only 60 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/i...-capsules.html

    clinically proven to lower LDL and increase HDL.

    a member on another forum had his wife use it, and she saw a 30% increase in HDL and a 48% decrease in LDL in only 60 days.
    I would certainly rather be natural than use a statin, but I will probably use lipitor I may or may not get the sides, but possible atrogin-1 activation scares me. Possible sides for years after stopping scares me. The muscle pain appears to be a side experienced in up to 15% of people. Even if there's studies showing that these usually don't occur to younger individuals, that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't there just maybe not noticed. On a side note my antivirus keeps blocking nutraplanet for containing a known malicious threat. So I'll be buying my supplements elsewhere till this is no longer a problem. http://www.avgthreatlabs.com/siterep...utraplanet.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by xGenericx View Post
    Don't get me wrong I know its for hypertension , I'm still taking it regardless. I was just curious as it seems it may make it a little harder to lose weight. I'll be on a low dose of 25mg though. I see what your saying. I just read that in this abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10331428 I don't have type 2 diabetes, but I was on my way there.
    Type II diabetes, contrary to common belief, is more about dysfunctional B-islets than insulin resistance (though the latter can cause the former in chronic cases). Your fasting blood glucose was normal, which tells me that your insulin production is fine at baseline levels. You can ask to partake in an oral glucose tolerance test with a 50-75g bolus of dextrose in order to see whether your insulin production is adequate in response to an insulinogenic meal.

    Will a beta blocker make fat loss harder? Realistically speaking, no. Just eat less and exercise vigorously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xGenericx View Post
    I would certainly rather be natural than use a statin, but I will probably use lipitor I may or may not get the sides, but possible atrogin-1 activation scares me. Possible sides for years after stopping scares me. The muscle pain appears to be a side experienced in up to 15% of people. Even if there's studies showing that these usually don't occur to younger individuals, that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't there just maybe not noticed. On a side note my antivirus keeps blocking nutraplanet for containing a known malicious threat. So I'll be buying my supplements elsewhere till this is no longer a problem. http://www.avgthreatlabs.com/siterep...utraplanet.com
    People have often unjustified fears of pharmaceuticals. EVERYTHING can have side effects, and the pros of statins crush the cons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    People have often unjustified fears of pharmaceuticals. EVERYTHING can have side effects, and the pros of statins crush the cons.
    I'm probably just worrying too much about it. I'm just take the things and see where it goes. I'm at the lowest doses of both anyway. Thanks for the knowledge/advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    People have often unjustified fears of pharmaceuticals. EVERYTHING can have side effects, and the pros of statins crush the cons.
    Curious; do not statins lower LDL-C more than LDL-p? Becase people with low LDL-C but high LDL-p are still at risk for CVD. Given that LDL-p is a better indicator of CVD risk, would not something that decreases LDL-p be more beneficial?

    So is statin therapy really worth it? Or would something like Niacin go a long way here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Curious; do not statins lower LDL-C more than LDL-p? Becase people with low LDL-C but high LDL-p are still at risk for CVD. Given that LDL-p is a better indicator of CVD risk, would not something that decreases LDL-p be more beneficial?

    So is statin therapy really worth it? Or would something like Niacin go a long way here?
    Reducing LDL-C reduces LDL-P as well. The correlation isn't direct since interindividual particle-saturation varies, but they both drop in response to low cellular cholesterol biosynthesis.
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    Re: Have High Hemoglobin bad LDL levels, some advice plz


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    People have often unjustified fears of pharmaceuticals. EVERYTHING can have side effects,
    Whole heartedly agree

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    and the pros of statins crush the cons.
    WHAT?!?!

    Do you use prohormones? steroids? test boosters? What are you using for cholesterol?

    Within that thread I cite a study that shows statins while lower total cholesterol they ultimately don't do much to benefit the individual as it results in changes to the LDL ratio but in a bad way (doesn't lower the LDL particle you actually want lowered)

    But even IF they did what they claimed to do. What does lowering cholesterol accomplish?

    Article on Cholesterol (Correlation, Causation & Statins)

    http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...art-75668.aspx

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/17...ths/index.html

    Outside of a specific population ( familial hypercholesterolaemia) I would say statins benefit no one.


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    Any antibiotics recently, and if which one?

    I might get a PTH test. Calcium a little high and a low D. Parathyroid can contribute to blood morphology variations. LDL may impact parathyroid protein expression. Maybe check phosphorus and magnesium for D production by kidney. A good endo that knows these systems will likely want to rule out PTH stuck in on position so to speak or secondary hyperPTH issues. Unfortunately, these are perhaps issues for good endo and not a general practioner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Whole heartedly agree



    WHAT?!?!

    Do you use prohormones? steroids? test boosters? What are you using for cholesterol?

    Within that thread I cite a study that shows statins while lower total cholesterol they ultimately don't do much to benefit the individual as it results in changes to the LDL ratio but in a bad way (doesn't lower the LDL particle you actually want lowered)

    But even IF they did what they claimed to do. What does lowering cholesterol accomplish?

    Article on Cholesterol (Correlation, Causation & Statins)

    http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...art-75668.aspx

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/17...ths/index.html

    Outside of a specific population ( familial hypercholesterolaemia) I would say statins benefit no one.


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    Re: Have High Hemoglobin bad LDL levels, some advice plz


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    O lawd. See CP
    lol.. I responded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Reducing LDL-C reduces LDL-P as well. The correlation isn't direct since interindividual particle-saturation varies, but they both drop in response to low cellular cholesterol biosynthesis.
    I'll just post this if your interested; http://www.lipoprotein.org/docs/defa...icle-focus.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I'll just post this if your interested; http://www.lipoprotein.org/docs/defa...icle-focus.pdf
    Always down to broaden horizons...still reading Josh's links though
    http://pescience.com/
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    berberine could be worth a look
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    coop you mention sfa reduction will lower ldl-p.... do you have a link?

    there are a couple of studies floating around where sfa has been associated with large buoyant ldl am keen to check this out
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMR01 View Post
    coop you mention sfa reduction will lower ldl-p.... do you have a link?

    there are a couple of studies floating around where sfa has been associated with large buoyant ldl am keen to check this out
    I've read quite a few studies stating both of these.......
    Berberine looks like its worth a shot. Its anti-inflammatory effects could be a plus.
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    Seen this cooper? JJ you might have; Relevant I think.

    Statins Do Not Reverse Arteriosclerosis



    Vascular Medicine

    Effect of Intensive Versus Standard Lipid-Lowering Treatment With Atorvastatin on the Progression of Calcified Coronary Atherosclerosis Over 12 Months
    A Multicenter, Randomized, Double-Blind Trial

    Axel Schmermund, MD et al

    From the Departments of Cardiology (A.S., R.E.) and Pharmacology (W.S.), University Clinic Essen, Essen, Germany, et al

    Correspondence to Axel Schmermund, MD, Cardioangiologisches Centrum Bethanien, Im Prüfling 23, 60389 Frankfurt am Main, Germany. E-mail A.Schmermund@ccb.de

    Abstract

    Background— Recent clinical trials have suggested that intensive versus standard lipid-lowering therapy provides for additional benefit. Electron-beam computed tomography provides the opportunity to quantify the progression of coronary artery calcification (CAC) in serial measurements.

    Methods and Results— In a multicenter, randomized, double-blind trial, 471 patients (age 61±8 years) who had no history of coronary artery disease and no evidence of high-grade coronary stenoses (>50% diameter reduction) were randomized if they had ≥2 cardiovascular risk factors and moderate calcified coronary atherosclerosis as evidenced by a CAC score ≥30. Patients were assigned to receive 80 mg or 10 mg of atorvastatin per day over 12 months. Progression of CAC volume scores could be analyzed in 366 patients. After pretreatment with 10 mg of atorvastatin for 4 weeks, 12 months of study medication reduced LDL cholesterol from 106±22 to 87±33 mg/dL in the group randomized to receive 80 mg of atorvastatin (P<0.001), whereas levels remained stable in the group randomized to receive 10 mg (108±23 at baseline, 109±28 mg/dL at the end of the study, P=NS). The mean progression of CAC volume scores, corrected for the baseline CAC volume score, was 27% (95% CI 20.8% to 33.1%) in the 80-mg atorvastatin group and 25% (95% CI 19.1% to 30.8%) in the 10-mg atorvastatin group (P=0.65). CAC progression showed no relationship with on-treatment LDL cholesterol levels.

    Conclusions— We did not observe a relationship between on-treatment LDL cholesterol levels and the progression of calcified coronary atherosclerosis. Over a period of 12 months, intensive atorvastatin therapy was unable to attenuate CAC progression compared with standard atorvastatin therapy. The possibility remains that the time window was too short to demonstrate an effect.

    FFT

    This starts to get at how statins might, and might not work and why they are not particularly effective for primary prevention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/i...-capsules.html

    clinically proven to lower LDL and increase HDL.

    a member on another forum had his wife use it, and she saw a 30% increase in HDL and a 48% decrease in LDL in only 60 days.
    Heart help raises my HDL better than Zocor, a statin. They have both done wonders for me.

    Mike
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    www.iforcenutrition.com
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    Your body needs cholesterol for all kinds of stuff! Reducing cholesterol to combat heart risk is like getting rid of blood to reduce clotting risk. (All we need to do is reduce your blood volume permanently by 30%, then you'll be good to go!)



    Not only is the approach flawed from a basic common sense stand point, the medication does pose side effect risk. Mitochondrial damage is just one of the potential problems these drugs can present. (can't post link)

    Does anyone know of any order of priority in which the body uses cholesterol? I thought I remembered seeing that the body will use available cholesterol to cope with inflammation (like arterial inflammation) before almost anything else.

    Anything else may include: the manufacture of steroid hormones and vitamin D. Production of bile so you can digest fat and properly absorb Vitamins A, D, E and K.

    All I'm saying is that I've been led to believe that you can reduce your cholesterol by 50% via changes to diet, via statins, via cutting out your liver, via whatever but reducing your cholesterol might not really reduce the supply that is flagged for use by the body to inflamed areas, it may just short your body on the supply used for other clearly important tasks. (maybe this is inferred by studies that show statins which do lower total cholesterol don't reverse arteriosclerosis)

    I'm no doctor but look into it.
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