PES...REALLY?!

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    As much as PES would love to utilize hormone/antibiotic free grass fed milk.. the price of a 2 pound jug would be over $50+.

    We wouldn't move that product. The idea is great, just unfortunately truly infeasible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    I am responding to this thread because I know PES only puts out solid, quality products that work. Otherwise, the forthcoming recommendation/request would surely be scoffed at. That being said, I would love to see a blended mix of WPI, whey hydrolysate, and casein hydrolysate. I would like the protein content to be derived from cows not treated with antibiotics, growth hormone, and fed an all grass diet. In addition to this, omit artificial sweeteners, and sweeten with stevia (and no splenda, please, that is not natural!). Flavor ideas... oreo milkshake, peppermint cheesecake, banana split.
    Im sure there are large posts I could dig up on each of these topics, but let me just get your take first. Why do you feel:

    1. Isolates and hydrosylates are superior?
    2. Cows must be grass-fed and "natty?"
    3. Artificial sweeteners are bad?

    Here is what the body of data shows:

    1. Unless you're lactose intolerant, WPC retains more dairy-specific growth factors than any of those forms. Whey and casein hydro (not peptopro) have data showing inferior effects on body composition to WPC.

    2. The FDA has repeatedly demonstrated no detriment to current milking procedures.

    3. The FDA has repeatedly demonstrated that artificial sweeteners are not only safe, but safer than many things in the food supply "naturally."

    The distinction between natural and artificial needs to be properly addressed. Essentially every medication you take is of artificial origin. And these medicines have increased human quality of life and lifespan by an incredible amount. Rather than focusing on the origin of compounds, why not dissect the in Vivo data and see if they are neutral, of detriment, or even of benefit to humans?

    Anyway, I'd still like to get your take on the above three questions, as we are all individuals and I'd like to know why you feel this way
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    They are classified as an excitotoxin, which is what MSG is also classified as. You're a big boy, bro, so I'm not going to lecture or get on a soap box. But just google the topic at hand and see for yourself
    Surcalose is not an excitotoxin. Really only aspartame could fit this definition, but it won't matter unless you suffer from a BH4 reduction issue or just classical PKU

    Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter. Mono sodium glutamate (MSG) is dietary glutamate that when CONSUMED IN EXCESS can have negative effects. You should note that anything consumed In excess is toxic, even water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Dan View Post
    Hey coop not to hijack this thread and I know you don't rep for SNS anymore but I was looking on nutraplanet at Focus XT and Caffeine Free Focus XT and why is Focus XT sweetened with Acesulfame potassium and the caffeine free is sweetened with Sucralose?
    The caffeine-free version used a new flavoring system, and all the testers seemed to love it so SNS stuck with it. It's not a big deal either way unless you plan on drinking 10 tubs of stimmed Focus XT in one sitting (no, I don't recommend this lol).
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    Pistacio flavor!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Profion View Post
    Pistacio flavor!!!!
    Wonder how hard this one would be to perfect. I love me some Pistacio Ice Cream.
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    I did get some protiens shakes from my gym one time that were pistacio! I can tell you the flavor was SO awesome... mmm
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    Butterscotch?
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    Something along the lines of Trutein, where you're not getting a protein "blend" that is comprised of 98% whey concentrate with minimal amounts of whatever else is left.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Something along the lines of Trutein, where you're not getting a protein "blend" that is comprised of 98% whey concentrate with minimal amounts of whatever else is left.
    I like this idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post

    You're talking about insane amounts. Normal consumption is of little concern

    - Valdez
    Normal consumption over the years adds up to an insane amount
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    As much as PES would love to utilize hormone/antibiotic free grass fed milk.. the price of a 2 pound jug would be over $50+.

    We wouldn't move that product. The idea is great, just unfortunately truly infeasible.
    I know. That's how much I pay for my current brand of protein. Oh well, PES still rocks my supp shelf!
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    Re: PES...REALLY?!


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Im sure there are large posts I could dig up on each of these topics, but let me just get your take first. Why do you feel:

    1. Isolates and hydrosylates are superior?
    2. Cows must be grass-fed and "natty?"
    3. Artificial sweeteners are bad?

    Here is what the body of data shows:

    1. Unless you're lactose intolerant, WPC retains more dairy-specific growth factors than any of those forms. Whey and casein hydro (not peptopro) have data showing inferior effects on body composition to WPC.

    2. The FDA has repeatedly demonstrated no detriment to current milking procedures.

    3. The FDA has repeatedly demonstrated that artificial sweeteners are not only safe, but safer than many things in the food supply "naturally."

    The distinction between natural and artificial needs to be properly addressed. Essentially every medication you take is of artificial origin. And these medicines have increased human quality of life and lifespan by an incredible amount. Rather than focusing on the origin of compounds, why not dissect the in Vivo data and see if they are neutral, of detriment, or even of benefit to humans?

    Anyway, I'd still like to get your take on the above three questions, as we are all individuals and I'd like to know why you feel this way
    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    Normal consumption over the years adds up to an insane amount
    I'm on my phone right now from work and don't have the time to cite studies on artificial sweeteners for you. There are tons of threads going over them here, with study citations in them. That being said, read Coop's post that I quoted for you since you seemed to have missed his response to your original posting.

    - Valdez
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    Re: PES...REALLY?!


    Peptopro!!!!

    - Valdez
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    How about a decent meal replacement with unique sources for carbs and fat. For example-chia seeds, almond flour, or even a vegetable content would be seriously unique like powdered kale. Probiotics or a digestive blend is always good too. Just make it different! There are already too many choices it must be tough to have yours stand out. Also don't get on the recent trend of 4.4 lb instead of a real 5. Leave out the dyes too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginandtonic View Post
    How about a decent meal replacement with unique sources for carbs and fat. For example-chia seeds, almond flour, or even a vegetable content would be seriously unique like powdered kale. Probiotics or a digestive blend is always good too. Just make it different! There are already too many choices it must be tough to have yours stand out. Also don't get on the recent trend of 4.4 lb instead of a real 5. Leave out the dyes too!
    4.4lbs is 2kg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Im sure there are large posts I could dig up on each of these topics, but let me just get your take first. Why do you feel:

    1. Isolates and hydrosylates are superior?
    2. Cows must be grass-fed and "natty?"
    3. Artificial sweeteners are bad?

    Here is what the body of data shows:

    1. Unless you're lactose intolerant, WPC retains more dairy-specific growth factors than any of those forms. Whey and casein hydro (not peptopro) have data showing inferior effects on body composition to WPC.

    2. The FDA has repeatedly demonstrated no detriment to current milking procedures.

    3. The FDA has repeatedly demonstrated that artificial sweeteners are not only safe, but safer than many things in the food supply "naturally."

    The distinction between natural and artificial needs to be properly addressed. Essentially every medication you take is of artificial origin. And these medicines have increased human quality of life and lifespan by an incredible amount. Rather than focusing on the origin of compounds, why not dissect the in Vivo data and see if they are neutral, of detriment, or even of benefit to humans?

    Anyway, I'd still like to get your take on the above three questions, as we are all individuals and I'd like to know why you feel this way
    It's the lifestyle I have adopted for myself, bro. Been living this way for 5 years now. I have read many holistic/natural healing books over the years, and they have literally changed my life. I am of the Jack Lalane school of thought, "If man made it, don't eat it." Obviously, this is impossible to adhere to. However, most of what I consume is of organic origin. As far as refuting your stance, lets just agree to disagree. This topic is way too vast to delve into by electronic means. There's volumes of literature out there on the matter. I will say this, always be cognizant of who is conducting the study, it often has everything to do with the results. Anyways, lets just build some muscle!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    4.4lbs is 2kg.
    And 5 lbs is around 2.7 KG, whats your point? a 5lb jug was the industry standard last time I checked. The typical container for a 5 lb when being used for the 4.4lb contents is slightly misleading to consumers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginandtonic View Post
    And 5 lbs is around 2.7 KG, whats your point? a 5lb jug was the industry standard last time I checked. The typical container for a 5 lb when being used for the 4.4lb contents is slightly misleading to consumers.
    America is not the only market in the world. That's my point.
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    Back on topic I think a blend is a good idea, I like what Trutein does in giving you a blend but its no proprietary.
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    It's the lifestyle I have adopted for myself, bro. Been living this way for 5 years now. I have read many holistic/natural healing books over the years, and they have literally changed my life. I am of the Jack Lalane school of thought, "If man made it, don't eat it." Obviously, this is impossible to adhere to. However, most of what I consume is of organic origin. As far as refuting your stance, lets just agree to disagree. This topic is way too vast to delve into by electronic means. There's volumes of literature out there on the matter. I will say this, always be cognizant of who is conducting the study, it often has everything to do with the results. Anyways, lets just build some muscle!
    The overseeing professor of my thesis is very well published in this arena. Does he have financial motives, along with the hundreds of other university professors?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Peptopro!!!!

    - Valdez
    Tasty inexpensive peptopro would destroy
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    A post workout made with some sort of fast acting carbs. I believe Meadows just talked about this, I can't remember what he said off of the top of my head though

    and fast acting protein... I believe coop said wpc is superior..
    Maybe even leucine enhanced, seeing as leucine is actually studied

    Try to leave the dye low. A major turn off of focus xt is the ridiculous amount of blue dye I had in my tub.
    Also if you guys could make this available in bulk that would be a big step. Too many people selling small tubs these days, I shouldn't have to order protein every damn month
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    My own personal preference would be keeping it as a protein only product.

    Carbs are easy to add an there is a lot of options for sources i.e. dextrose, maltodextrin, WMS, Vitargo, Karbolyn etc. I like being able to add carbs if I want them but use the powder alone primarily.

    Also, there are no protein plus carb powders (MRPs, weight gainers, post workout formulas) in the top 50 of NP from what I can see whereas some protein powders have been popular for years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc
    My own personal preference would be keeping it as a protein only product.

    Carbs are easy to add an there is a lot of options for sources i.e. dextrose, maltodextrin, WMS, Vitargo, Karbolyn etc. I like being able to add carbs if I want them but use the powder alone primarily.

    Also, there are no protein plus carb powders (MRPs, weight gainers, post workout formulas) in the top 50 of NP from what I can see whereas some protein powders have been popular for years.
    Agreed, I like the versatility of a protein only product
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    We have more on the way as well.

    Wait, what?!
    BCAA's that taste like fruit punch alphamine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrepNwa23 View Post
    Back on topic I think a blend is a good idea, I like what Trutein does in giving you a blend but its no proprietary.
    I dont see the perpous of blends. its not like you absorb all of the different protiens at different speeds- as some supp companies would like you to believe...If you mix wpi and casine the wpi just takes longer to absorb because the casine slows it down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    BCAA's that taste like fruit punch alphamine.
    No comment!
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    NICE!!!!!!

    1 kg and cheaper than xtend (PLEASE!!!!!!)

    And do a watermelon flavor like hemavol!!!!!!!!!





    Real excited.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    No comment!
    A BCAA product with Leucine Nitrate, Agmatine and Citrulline Malate, that tastes like raspberry lemonade alphamine. Would definitely purchase if priced fairly/available in 100 serving size.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    I dont see the perpous of blends. its not like you absorb all of the different protiens at different speeds- as some supp companies would like you to believe...If you mix wpi and casine the wpi just takes longer to absorb because the casine slows it down.
    People like blends because it is optimal to have multiple sources of amino acids.
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    I said no comment!
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    Re: PES...REALLY?!


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    2. Cows must be grass-fed and "natty?"
    Natty cows!! This made me literally lol during lecture.



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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexErdellan View Post
    A BCAA product with Leucine Nitrate, Agmatine and Citrulline Malate, that tastes like raspberry lemonade alphamine. Would definitely purchase if priced fairly/available in 100 serving size.
    x2. Would stack well with Enhanced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain13

    x2. Would stack well with Enhanced.
    Sounds good eh
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    Sounds good eh
    Indeed eh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Natty cows!! This made me literally lol during lecture.



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    FYI: John Meadows is a proponent of this
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    The overseeing professor of my thesis is very well published in this arena. Does he have financial motives, along with the hundreds of other university professors?
    There's also hundreds of professors demonizing the chemical that you defend. For one, read up on the works of Dr. Mercola. Also, John Meadows (huge advocate for grass fed beef and dairy). But hey, to each his own say!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockme View Post
    There's also hundreds of professors demonizing the chemical that you defend. For one, read up on the works of Dr. Mercola. Also, John Meadows (huge advocate for grass fed beef and dairy). But hey, to each his own say!
    There are two sides to every story. Follow the body of evidence.
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    Re: PES...REALLY?!


    Dr. Mercola = quackery = psuedoscience

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