Unlimited budget...build your ideal natty stack

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain13 View Post
    Seriously why even take supplements at all? LOL Buy all bulk SNS **** FTW! To each his own. One mans trash is another mans treasure.
    Never said buy SNS only, I said bulk...who you buy from is your decision! But if you want to get the most out of your money, at least do watch proper dosage, price per serving and keep track of new studies to find out what are the proven working supplements brother.

    No need to get all angry...we were only discussing...while at it, what's good about X-Factor Advanced ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post

    I don't like mixing certain GDAs with ArA...some ingredients may react negatively with them. Anyhow, I would say if you really wanna do ArA best thing to do is:

    -1.5-2.5g of ArA
    -2g LCLT
    -5-8g GMS
    -6-9g Citrulline Malate
    -1-2g Agmatine Sulfate
    -Anabeta Elite 4 caps a day

    I don't know if your joints can take it, but if they can , 1 cap of Erase Pro a day too.

    It can be fairly cheap if you do SNS Cit Mal, SNS Agmatine Powder (100g), bulk powder LCLT (I've seen like 100g for as low as $15) and some bulk GMS or Glycergrow...the expensive part would be the ArA but even some retailers have 200ct bottles at a fair price (X-Factor).

    You can't miss on PES and nutraplanet though, most of the times they will have insane prices on ABE and EP, I would say they are worth every penny, including for this stack, since I do see synergism between Anacyclus pyrethrum and ArA.
    Are you implying IGF-2 is a GDA?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Are you implying IGF-2 is a GDA?
    Hm not sure , let me check, sounded like one haha...I just ain't familiar wiht the product...lets look it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Are you implying IGF-2 is a GDA?
    Oh I see it isn't now , I wonder how much Rhodiola is in it...or L-dopa...could be nice IMO. I'll try it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post

    Oh I see it isn't now , I wonder how much Rhodiola is in it...or L-dopa...could be nice IMO. I'll try it out.
    I enjoyed my run with it.
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    SNS Focus XT
    SNS Agmatine
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    SNS Focus XT
    SNS Agmatine
    SNS Cissus XT
    Biotivia BioForge v3
    USP Labs Anabolic Pump
    CL Green Bulge
    CL Orange Triad
    Haleo Aqua Red
    You sir are on to something good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    that is an AWESOME stack.

    for strength: Prime + Anabeta + IGF 2 + DAA

    Mass: Anabeta + Versa 1 + IGF 2 + Prime + DAA

    Cut: Alphamine + Versa 1 + Anabeta Elite + DAA + Erase Pro
    I think I am going to try a cut VERY similar to that this spring...

    To OP your stack is plenty and should yield great results. I personally don't like to take too much at once, rather stagger at different times so that you can maximize progress over time rather than fit it into a small window.

    I love ArA and consistently use it, but haven't had the chance to stack it with AnaBeta yet.
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    Haven't used ArA, may have to
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    Haven't used ArA, may have to
    The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.
    interesting

    ...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    interesting

    ...........
    It's the worst DOMS you've ever had. However thats part of its MOA and a sure sign its working.
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    ArA + Tropinol XP + Intimidate SRT + Anabeta.
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    Edit:
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.
    My knees got so bad when I ran it I stopped squatting, never again. I thought Erase Pro was rough on my joints but this was another level.

    It gets awesome reviews so I'm kinda bummed but I'll take pain free squats over any supplement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPjohn123 View Post
    Haven't used ArA, may have to
    I think you should...I love me some ArA. As mentioned the DOMS can be intense and some notice headaches, joint pain, etc. but I find those can usually be countered or not too bad overall. I feel bad for people who get it bad and can't use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    SNS Focus XT
    SNS Agmatine
    SNS Cissus XT
    Biotivia BioForge v3
    USP Labs Anabolic Pump
    CL Green Bulge
    CL Orange Triad
    Haleo Aqua Red
    BioForge V3 is a good product. Got to love some Agmatine. Solid looking stack there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Oh I see it isn't now , I wonder how much Rhodiola is in it...or L-dopa...could be nice IMO. I'll try it out.
    I've always enjoyed my run with AppNut IGF-2, size & strength, and I notice increased vascularity in the upper chest and shoulders. Recently I ran it with X-Factor and that was excellent, gained 6 lbs over 2 months while doing increased endurance training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by p5sky View Post

    I've always enjoyed my run with AppNut IGF-2, size & strength, and I notice increased vascularity in the upper chest and shoulders.
    The placebo is strong in this one.
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    After I get the ok to lift again (had shoulder surgery) I'm running:
    Anabeta
    Endosurge
    Erase
    Prometheus Rising
    Agmatine
    Orange Triad
    Oximega Fish Oil
    Creatine blend
    REM PM
    ZMK
    Achilles
    Condense or Biocharge for pre

    yes, I have been hoarding for a while...
    The only other things I considered adding were Prime, Versa-1, X-Factor, Natadrol or T-force, but I haven't had a chance to try any of these yet so it would have been hard to gauge their worth in such a large stack first time around
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    Guys first of all I cant thank you all enough for the feedback you have provided. I will admit that though I have been training for a long time I have never really gotten into the supplements like these. My staples have always been creatine mono, mega dose bcaas, and anabolic pump. I used DAA + Powerfull on my last bulk and I feel that it was pretty effective for me.

    Your feedback and my research kind of boils down to the following being probably the my best options:

    anabeta elite + erase pro +daa

    or

    Ara (with supports) stand alone or maybe with DAA

    Seems like both of these stacks are very well liked but would probably yield similar responses (unless I am a non responded to either).

    I like the idea of keeping the stacks a little simpler so I can see what is or isnt working, unless there is an obvious addition that would add proven results and would simply be silly no to include.

    Since Ara is a shorter run could something like this be done in your opinions?

    week 1-4 ara w/ supports
    week 4-8 ara w supports + DAA
    week 8-12 DAA + erase pro + anabeta
    week 8-16 erase pro +anabeta

    Basically ara for 8 weeks overlap the DAA for the middle 4+4 weeks and erase anabeta for the second 8 weeks with DAA being the overlap?

    Bottom line is I am getting way to anxious about this and Im thinking waay too much about it. I just want to maximize my potential over 16 weeks and it makes me very anxious thinking I might be short changing myself gains by choosing one over the other or not including something.

    Im sure some of you bros feel the same way sometimes? Again I appreciate all your help out dudes. I really like this forum, people here are so eager to help out with inof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse192 View Post
    Guys first of all I cant thank you all enough for the feedback you have provided. I will admit that though I have been training for a long time I have never really gotten into the supplements like these. My staples have always been creatine mono, mega dose bcaas, and anabolic pump. I used DAA + Powerfull on my last bulk and I feel that it was pretty effective for me.

    Your feedback and my research kind of boils down to the following being probably the my best options:

    anabeta elite + erase pro +daa

    or

    Ara (with supports) stand alone or maybe with DAA

    Seems like both of these stacks are very well liked but would probably yield similar responses (unless I am a non responded to either).

    I like the idea of keeping the stacks a little simpler so I can see what is or isnt working, unless there is an obvious addition that would add proven results and would simply be silly no to include.

    Since Ara is a shorter run could something like this be done in your opinions?

    week 1-4 ara w/ supports
    week 4-8 ara w supports + DAA
    week 8-12 DAA + erase pro + anabeta
    week 8-16 erase pro +anabeta

    Basically ara for 8 weeks overlap the DAA for the middle 4+4 weeks and erase anabeta for the second 8 weeks with DAA being the overlap?

    Bottom line is I am getting way to anxious about this and Im thinking waay too much about it. I just want to maximize my potential over 16 weeks and it makes me very anxious thinking I might be short changing myself gains by choosing one over the other or not including something.

    Im sure some of you bros feel the same way sometimes? Again I appreciate all your help out dudes. I really like this forum, people here are so eager to help out with inof.
    If it's your first time running erase I'd suggest sticking to OG erase as which comes in 25mg which you take 3 times a day, whereas the erase pro contains the full 75mg in one capsule which makes it more difficult to adjust if the 75mg starts to give you joint pain (a common complaint). Also, not sure whether you meant OG Anabeta or ABE since you mention both, but if you are planning to bulk OG Anabeta is more suited, where as ABE is more for a recomp (haven't tried ABE yet only OG, just repeating what I've heard), as the hunger effects are apparently less pronounced with ABE.

    Running ARA into Anabeta and erase shouldn't be a problem, but running the DAA in between may not be the best idea if you really want to judge the effects of the erase and anabeta, as the muscle fullness and hardness from the DAA will mask the fullness and hardness Anabeta and erase give you, making it harder to see their true effects. Also, running hormonal based supps for 12weeks may be stretching it a little, as the general guideline seems to be 8 weeks before a 4 week break.

    My suggestion would be to run:
    week 1-8 ara w/ supports
    week 8-12 erase + anabeta
    week 12-16 erase + anabeta +DAA

    You could always add the DAA earlier, say week 10, depending upon how the anabeta and erase are effecting you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse192 View Post
    week 1-4 ara w/ supports
    week 4-8 ara w supports + DAA
    week 8-12 DAA + erase pro + anabeta
    week 8-16 erase pro +anabeta
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxter View Post
    My suggestion would be to run:
    week 1-8 ara w/ supports
    week 8-12 erase + anabeta
    week 12-16 erase + anabeta +DAA

    You could always add the DAA earlier, say week 10, depending upon how the anabeta and erase are effecting you.
    Both are doable and Daxter had some great suggestions. I am a big fan of staggering things over a longer time rather than throwing them all in at once and think both ideas look pretty good and Daxter's layout with DAA in week 10 would be a great way to go IMO.

    I personally like ArA for 4-6 weeks at a high dose (1.5-2g pre-workout only on training days).
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolt10 View Post
    Both are doable and Daxter had some great suggestions. I am a big fan of staggering things over a longer time rather than throwing them all in at once and think both ideas look pretty good and Daxter's layout with DAA in week 10 would be a great way to go IMO.

    I personally like ArA for 4-6 weeks at a high dose (1.5-2g pre-workout only on training days).

    Bolt thanks for all your feedback dude you have been very helpful. So am I safe in assuming that if planning on doing an xfactor run followed by a anabeta elite / erase pro run id be better off stacking the daa with the abe / erase run and leave the xfactor as a standalone? Just wondering if one stack was better to have the DAA run alongside with than the other. Thanks again man

    Second question everyone keeps saying that on these supps you have to eat more etc. If I am lean bulking with a 500 calories surplus which is my sweet spot for gaining and minimizing fat, the recommendation to increase my surplus. I guess I dont see how a supplement would affect the amount of calories that one should be in surplus for a bulk unless its not natural?

    Thanks fellas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse192 View Post

    Bolt thanks for all your feedback dude you have been very helpful. So am I safe in assuming that if planning on doing an xfactor run followed by a anabeta elite / erase pro run id be better off stacking the daa with the abe / erase run and leave the xfactor as a standalone? Just wondering if one stack was better to have the DAA run alongside with than the other. Thanks again man

    Second question everyone keeps saying that on these supps you have to eat more etc. If I am lean bulking with a 500 calories surplus which is my sweet spot for gaining and minimizing fat, the recommendation to increase my surplus. I guess I dont see how a supplement would affect the amount of calories that one should be in surplus for a bulk unless its not natural?

    Thanks fellas
    No you don't have to consume more calories on the supps you plan on taking. They may however make you feel hungrier. ABE has had this effect on many. Which isn't a bad thing .
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    I am shooting to do all this
    Erase Pro
    Anabeta Elite
    Alphamine
    Need2slin
    Gear
    Compound 20
    Prime
    PowerFULL
    Versa-1
    Super Cissus
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    Power patch trippled
    6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
    Vitalizer
    Workout maximizer
    Amino patches 3 times a day
    Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    I am shooting to do all this
    Erase Pro
    Anabeta Elite
    Alphamine
    Need2slin
    Gear
    Compound 20
    Prime
    PowerFULL
    Versa-1
    Super Cissus
    Testo patch
    Power patch trippled
    6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
    Vitalizer
    Workout maximizer
    Amino patches 3 times a day
    Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
    I would much rather create a few stacks with all of that stuff, more does not always equal better. You can only grow so much, say 10lbs in a month After a point you have diminishing returns no matter what you are running. Create a stack and go with it for 6-8 weeks, take a month off from the extras but keep the staple going, then go with the next stack for 6-8 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse192 View Post
    Bolt thanks for all your feedback dude you have been very helpful. So am I safe in assuming that if planning on doing an xfactor run followed by a anabeta elite / erase pro run id be better off stacking the daa with the abe / erase run and leave the xfactor as a standalone? Just wondering if one stack was better to have the DAA run alongside with than the other. Thanks again man

    Second question everyone keeps saying that on these supps you have to eat more etc. If I am lean bulking with a 500 calories surplus which is my sweet spot for gaining and minimizing fat, the recommendation to increase my surplus. I guess I dont see how a supplement would affect the amount of calories that one should be in surplus for a bulk unless its not natural?

    Thanks fellas
    Sorry missed this the other day.

    1) I'd use the DAA with ABE/Erase. Awesome combo. ArA with the proper supports is very effective already and best to try it without too much extra the first time. I don't usually even add much too it when I run it as it gives me great results based on what I look for out of it.

    2) You seem to have a good idea what you are doing so I wouldn't really suggest adding more at the beginning. After a week or two you sould be able to tell if you need more/less, but I wouldn't take it as a have to kind of situation. Just adjust how you normally would IMO, but be mindful that some recomp may take place if you wonder why weight isn't going up as usual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by p5sky View Post

    I would much rather create a few stacks with all of that stuff, more does not always equal better. You can only grow so much, say 10lbs in a month After a point you have diminishing returns no matter what you are running. Create a stack and go with it for 6-8 weeks, take a month off from the extras but keep the staple going, then go with the next stack for 6-8 weeks.
    Remember lot of those are single ingredient products at a clinical dose so I am not to worried.
    Over half is my Staple.
    Ageforce rep, Lets patch up those mistakes and stop going oral.
    Knowledge is power- The power to do your part and make a difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    I'll be running this all summer...

    Erase Pro
    Test Powder
    Anabeta Elite
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    Alphamine
    Anabolic Pump
    Endosurge
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    SNS MCC
    Wow. Please tell me your going to run a log!!!

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    i love this thread but i really wonder what an ultimate natty stack would look like for a "non-bodybuilder" - for someone just looking to maximize health?
    i'm not saying bodybuilding isn't healthy, i just have severe health issues and exercising beyond my basic life routine actually makes things worse, so i'm looking to increase my well-being as much as possible without taxing or compromising my already compromised body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbombsquad View Post
    I am shooting to do all this
    Erase Pro
    Anabeta Elite
    Alphamine
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    Gear
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    Prime
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    Testo patch
    Power patch trippled
    6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
    Vitalizer
    Workout maximizer
    Amino patches 3 times a day
    Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
    Aminos, workout maximizer, vitalizer, power patch electrolytes, Gplc, agmintne, ba,cc and need to slin super c would be year round and the rest could be 3 months on 3 off etc but pretty much my staples are as Categorized pre, post vitamins, minerals, fish and antioxidants.
    Ageforce rep, Lets patch up those mistakes and stop going oral.
    Knowledge is power- The power to do your part and make a difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    i love this thread but i really wonder what an ultimate natty stack would look like for a "non-bodybuilder" - for someone just looking to maximize health?
    i'm not saying bodybuilding isn't healthy, i just have severe health issues and exercising beyond my basic life routine actually makes things worse, so i'm looking to increase my well-being as much as possible without taxing or compromising my already compromised body.
    For general health:
    Multivitamin (Orange Triad or MVP + ZMK)
    Fish Oil
    ALCAR
    Vit C
    Vit D3
    CoQ10

    Specific problems
    Cissus if you have joint problems
    Echinacea if you have immune system problems, great for preventing colds
    Digestive enzymes can be useful if you get problems with bloat or other intestinal issues
    A sleep formula like REM PM can be beneficial if you have problems with fatigue or trouble sleeping
    L-dopa is also very useful for those with sleep based fatigue problems
    A GDA (ie SlinSane, Slintensity etc) can also be very useful if you are sensitive to carbs, ie fat gain or post meal fatigue

    Beyond the basics it really depends on your specific health issues, as the kitchen sink approach could create more problems than it solves, as we all react differently to individual supplements.
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    Re: Unlimited budget...build your ideal natty stack


    Sushi and bacon wrapped sirloins all day erry'day

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    Cutting: Alphamine, TTA, Shift, Lean Xtreme (I ran this without the Lean Xtreme and it was incredible! I ran Lean Xtreme before and can only imagine what it could bring to the table with that lineup. Ive still got a bottle of Alphamine and a month supply of TTA. I might have to try it...)

    Bulking: Solid Preworkout like Condense or Craze, digestive aid so I dont feel too crappy, a good GDA because Im rather carb sensitive and a former fat boy. Beta Alanine, Creatine, Multi, Fish Oil, etc. And a solid ecdy product like the Iforce ecdy. I know it takes a lot of hate and whatnot, but I find it helps keep fat gains down and increases vascularity for me. I like to keep it fairly simple even in my "Ultimate" stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxter View Post
    For general health:
    Multivitamin (Orange Triad or MVP + ZMK)
    Fish Oil
    ALCAR
    Vit C
    Vit D3
    CoQ10

    Specific problems
    Cissus if you have joint problems
    Echinacea if you have immune system problems, great for preventing colds
    Digestive enzymes can be useful if you get problems with bloat or other intestinal issues
    A sleep formula like REM PM can be beneficial if you have problems with fatigue or trouble sleeping
    L-dopa is also very useful for those with sleep based fatigue problems
    A GDA (ie SlinSane, Slintensity etc) can also be very useful if you are sensitive to carbs, ie fat gain or post meal fatigue

    Beyond the basics it really depends on your specific health issues, as the kitchen sink approach could create more problems than it solves, as we all react differently to individual supplements.
    you're right, the kitchen sink approach has its pros and cons. i've tried to do everything with just diet, and i'm talking about eating offal like a french chef, everything grass fed pasture raised, highest quality ingredients prepared in the right ways - i studied food nutrition for 5+ years trying to eat how humans would have eaten before the industrial era. it helped me a lot, but i'm still under the gun of adrenal fatigue and associated problems. i felt really good last summer, but i was getting tons of sunlight and taking quite a few "bodybuilding supps".
    i'm now wondering whether i can mimic that level of health and just NOT workout, because working out actually caused me to deplete my reserves and by the time winter came along i wasn't prepared. now i'm paying for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    you're right, the kitchen sink approach has its pros and cons. i've tried to do everything with just diet, and i'm talking about eating offal like a french chef, everything grass fed pasture raised, highest quality ingredients prepared in the right ways - i studied food nutrition for 5+ years trying to eat how humans would have eaten before the industrial era. it helped me a lot, but i'm still under the gun of adrenal fatigue and associated problems. i felt really good last summer, but i was getting tons of sunlight and taking quite a few "bodybuilding supps".
    i'm now wondering whether i can mimic that level of health and just NOT workout, because working out actually caused me to deplete my reserves and by the time winter came along i wasn't prepared. now i'm paying for it.
    May be a stupid question but did you try taking Gluten out of your diet? I am quite susceptible to carbs and the fatigue they can bring and I found that switching to gluten free reduced that greatly.

    Also, if you are having problems with adrenal fatigue you may want to check out Southland Performance Revamp. It's designed to improve stimulant sensitivity after heavy stim cycles, ie fat burners, but it may be worth a try as it seems to be angled towards repairing the stimulant's negative effects on the adrenal gland. I personally haven't tried it yet, but I did pick up a bottle in my last order, for $10 it's worth a try.
    nutraplanet.com/product/southland-performance-products/revamp-60-caps.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxter View Post
    May be a stupid question but did you try taking Gluten out of your diet? I am quite susceptible to carbs and the fatigue they can bring and I found that switching to gluten free reduced that greatly.

    Also, if you are having problems with adrenal fatigue you may want to check out Southland Performance Revamp. It's designed to improve stimulant sensitivity after heavy stim cycles, ie fat burners, but it may be worth a try as it seems to be angled towards repairing the stimulant's negative effects on the adrenal gland. I personally haven't tried it yet, but I did pick up a bottle in my last order, for $10 it's worth a try.
    nutraplanet.com/product/southland-performance-products/revamp-60-caps.html
    oh ya i've been GF for a long while
    thanks for that link, it's interesting because i respond very well to all dopamine precursors (1-carboxy, mucuna, L-PA/DL-PA, PEA, Tyro, NALT) and very badly to all serotonin amplifiers, i dont know what this means other than that my hpa axis is whacked out, as it has been since i was an infant (hence the adrenal issues, hypothryoid, andropause, etc, it's all interconnected)
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    Tropinol XP would definitely have its place in the best natural stack now..

    Excited for potent doses of exogenous testosterone boosters than that pretty big dose of potassium nitrate. Stacked with Hemavol and some ArA, that could be absolutely epic pumps.

    Be sure to check out this killer deal - Tropinol for about $15 less than getting it individually, as well as a full bottle of Intimidate and Dexaprine samples. The best $37.99 you'll ever spend.

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/i...dle-stack.html
    iFORCE NUTRITION REPRESENTATIVE

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