Protein Shake vs FOOD Source

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    Pointing out my mistakes is one thing. Making fun of me is another. I accept I was wrong I won't ever listen to my doc again on these sort of problems. Move on with the thread.

    I would never advocate that you ignore your doctors advice or write him off as wrong from now on due to one incident. What I would suggest is you do your part and put the time in to research the claims made by him or anyone else for that matter. The "appeal to authority" fallacy plagues just about everyone. Dont beat yourself up too much over it.

    Think of this. You are able to admit publicly you were wrong.. this alone puts you way ahead of most. Its a learning process bud. You just have to remember to never assume what you hear is right. Learn to be skeptical and question everything. You will do just fine.

    Take care
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    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Oh my... I started multi quoting and typing... but there is just to much.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
    aw, dont be like that big guy, lets have at it!

  3. Am I too late for the group hug?
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Why is it not healthy if you don't have an adverse reaction to it?

    I think its pretty clear he was calling you dumb. "It takes one to know one"


    - Valdez
    if you have even a slight food allergy, you may not have any outward symptoms, but it could cause stress and inflamation inside the body, leading to a host of other side effect you wont be able to see unless you get blood work done pretty regularly.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    horrible, horrible example tyga, but i appreciate you trying

    fruit sugar (fructose and the like) is comprised quite differently, and acts differently in the body as well
    hey, if you're saying what I think you're saying about sugar, specifically fructose, you're*** smarter than I thunk!

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    What's wrong with the fat content of whole milk? I see you issue regarding galactose and digestion, but not a single problem with the fats.
    give me the fat!!!!!!!!!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Please don't tell me you subscribe to the fat phobia prevalent within the RD field.
    those dirty vegitarians and their lipid hypothesis's!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Chill brotha! Everything is all good my man. I was joking with you nothing more. You have recently become very serious. Relax bro

    - Valdez
    maybe he's talking about me while thinking he's on another forum (cough bb cough .com cough cough) though, if he posted here long enough, he might be used to it, or adjusted to it. thats just how i roll.

  9. i dint get my workout in today


    bygones

  10. oh no worries, i dont hold it personally, i'll be the first one to tell you, im not a very friendly hug it out, no name calling kind of guy.
  11. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Re: Protein Shake vs FOOD Source


    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    oh no worries, i dont hold it personally, i'll be the first one to tell you, im not a very friendly hug it out, no name calling kind of guy.
    Don't worry I don't think anyone ever mistakes you for that kind of guy

    - Valdez
    Founder & Owner
    Aspire. Train. Perform. Nutrition
    "More than a supplement company."

  12. Protein shakes for the win!!
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift View Post
    Protein shakes for the win!!
    After reading this thread I think it's safe to conclude that we shouldn't get protein from shakes OR food sources since we can't come to a consensus.

    I'm starting my no protein diet today. I'll keep you guys updated, but I should be ripped in no time.
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    PM me with any questions!

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I'm starting my no protein diet today. I should be ripped in no time.
    uh

    can i question that?


  15. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce

    After reading this thread I think it's safe to conclude that we shouldn't get protein from shakes OR food sources since we can't come to a consensus.

    I'm starting my no protein diet today. I'll keep you guys updated, but I should be ripped in no time.
    Protein is whack, biceps aren't important, breakfast doesn't matter and you shouldn't cycle unless you get to 200lbs natural. Interesting week around here!
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    uh

    can i question that?

    no you may not
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    no you may not
    LOL k..jus checkin

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I would never advocate that you ignore your doctors advice or write him off as wrong from now on due to one incident. What I would suggest is you do your part and put the time in to research the claims made by him or anyone else for that matter. The "appeal to authority" fallacy plagues just about everyone. Dont beat yourself up too much over it.

    Think of this. You are able to admit publicly you were wrong.. this alone puts you way ahead of most. Its a learning process bud. You just have to remember to never assume what you hear is right. Learn to be skeptical and question everything. You will do just fine.

    Take care
    very nice

    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    if you have even a slight food allergy, you may not have any outward symptoms, but it could cause stress and inflamation inside the body, leading to a host of other side effect you wont be able to see unless you get blood work done pretty regularly.
    exactly

    on a srs tip - this lends to some srs direction and discussion
    it can be argued (no theorized, let's not argue) that, in the larger scope of context, inflammation is the leading and ultimate cause of death
    (essence = repeated/excessive inflammation leads to cellular mutation/dysfunction leads to death etc)

    we as bb'ers and health enthusiasts, do quite a few things that lead to and result in (ongoing) inflammation in the body
    (including our dietary discretion)
    ultimately leading to potential shortening of our lifespan
    (*but - we'll look good when we die eh?)

    i'm tying this in with milk here..inflammatory response etc
    hence, my stance from earlier

    just thought i'd throw out there, see if anyone has interest in pursuing such discussion

    (not tryin to derail all the fun)

  18. Re: Protein Shake vs FOOD Source


    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    LOL k..jus checkin


    very nice


    exactly

    on a srs tip - this lends to some srs direction and discussion
    it can be argued (no theorized, let's not argue) that, in the larger scope of context, inflammation is the leading and ultimate cause of death
    (essence = repeated/excessive inflammation leads to cellular mutation/dysfunction leads to death etc)



    we as bb'ers and health enthusiasts, do quite a few things that lead to and result in (ongoing) inflammation in the body
    (including our dietary discretion)
    ultimately leading to potential shortening of our lifespan
    (*but - we'll look good when we die eh?)
    Its important we differentiate between acute inflammation and systemic inflammation

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    i'm tying this in with milk here..inflammatory response etc
    hence, my stance from earlier

    just thought i'd throw out there, see if anyone has interest in pursuing such discussion

    (not tryin to derail all the fun)

    Dairy products consumption is associated with decreased levels of inflammatory markers related to cardiovascular disease in apparently healthy adults: the ATTICA study.

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVE:

    The aim of this work was to investigate the association between consumption of dairy products and levels of various inflammatory markers among adults with no evidence of cardiovascular or other chronic disease.

    METHODS:

    The ATTICA study is a cross-sectional survey that enrolled 1514 men (18-87 years old) and 1528 women (18-89 years old) from the Attica region in Greece. Fasting blood samples were collected and dietary habits (including consumption of dairy products [i.e., milk, cheese, and yogurt]) were evaluated using a validated food frequency questionnaire.
    RESULTS:

    We observed that C-reactive protein (CRP), interleukin-6 (IL-6), and tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-α) levels of individuals consuming between 11 and 14 servings of dairy products per week were almost 16%, 5%, and 12% lower, respectively, than in those consuming fewer than 8 servings (p < 0.05), while those consuming more than 14 servings per week had 29%, 9%, and 20% lower levels of CRP, IL-6, and TNF-α, respectively (p < 0.01), even after adjustments were made for age, gender, smoking, physical activity, body mass, dietary habits, and other potential confounders.

    CONCLUSION:

    We identified an inverse association between dairy products consumption and levels of various inflammatory markers among healthy adults. Additional clinical trials are needed to refute or confirm our findings.

    PMID: 21041810

    http://www.jacn.org/content/29/4/357.long


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  19. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Its important we differentiate between acute inflammation and systemic inflammation
    true

    Dairy products consumption is associated with decreased levels of inflammatory markers related to cardiovascular disease in apparently healthy adults: the ATTICA study.
    okay, what about bronchial response to allergens in general?
    also ---> and then that leads me to..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18219765
    questioning validity of markers used

    am i wrong in my understanding CRP may be faulty method in your study?

    studies..not the end-all/be-all for me
    certainly interesting, and a basis to form discussion

  20. Now now, let's keep the logical discussion at a minimum meaning, none
  21. Re: Protein Shake vs FOOD Source


    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post

    okay, what about bronchial response to allergens in general?
    also ---> and then that leads me to..
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18219765
    questioning validity of markers used

    studies..not the end-all/be-all for me
    certainly interesting, and a basis to form discussion
    While CRP is not reflective to BHR as your link points out, this still doesnt really say much.

    How about we make your claim clear. If I'm not mistaken your claim is that dairy consumption leads to systemic inflammation which leads to negative effects on health. Is that correct?

    Now as far as I know milk has no positive corelations with increased CRP (which unlike BHR is a marker of health) and intact there exist an inverse relationship between milk consumption and health. BHR is specific to those with asthma.

    However, there does exist a theory that for those with an existing milk allergy, the consumption of milk may lead to increased BHR (asthma) but the research isn't really too conclusive as it is limited.

    But we do have -

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20618346 - The researchers conclude that early exposure to cows milk was associated with less BHR

    But as a said earlier the research is limited here but it isn't much of a stretch to say that one with a milk allergy should avoid milk and there might be the potential of increases chances of developing asthma.

    That said, your previous statements implied a broad implication across all populations to avoid milk
    Or am I misreading?



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    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  22. as goofy as it sounds if you take it out of context and plant it somewhere:
    i will NEVER rely on science to shape and lead my direction
    srs
    and i don't peretend to understand what some of these studies delve into, or technical terms
    i don't care - i have seen far too many studies spewed, with glaring faulty parameters in which they were constructed from the beginning..
    with hidden agendas..
    questionable "backgrounds" of ppl performing or funding them..

    you could tailor practically any study to fit the conclusion you wish it to arrive at, if you are creative enuff

    and then - there's the always the application in which these things are applied, and the conflicting results one study will have versus another

    nah
    science is cool, nice reference but -
    the body is not a textbook!



    (waiting for the uproar on that stance lulz................)

  23. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    as goofy as it sounds if you take it out of context and plant it somewhere:
    i will NEVER rely on science to shape and lead my direction
    srs
    and i don't peretend to understand what some of these studies delve into, or technical terms
    i don't care - i have seen far too many studies spewed, with glaring faulty parameters in which they were constructed from the beginning..
    with hidden agendas..
    questionable "backgrounds" of ppl performing or funding them..

    you could tailor practically any study to fit the conclusion you wish it to arrive at, if you are creative enuff

    and then - there's the always the application in which these things are applied, and the conflicting results one study will have versus another

    nah
    science is cool, nice reference but -
    the body is not a textbook!

    (waiting for the uproar on that stance lulz................)
    So why offer the opportunity for discussion?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    While CRP is not reflective to BHR as your link points out, this still doesnt really say much.

    How about we make your claim clear. If I'm not mistaken your claim is that dairy consumption leads to systemic inflammation which leads to negative effects on health. Is that correct?
    correct, would of course be contributing factor to such

    Now as far as I know milk has no positive corelations with increased CRP (which unlike BHR is a marker of health) and intact there exist an inverse relationship between milk consumption and health. BHR is specific to those with asthma.
    yes i know

    However, there does exist a theory that for those with an existing milk allergy, the consumption of milk may lead to increased BHR (asthma) but the research isn't really too conclusive as it is limited.

    But we do have -

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20618346 - The researchers conclude that early exposure to cows milk was associated with less BHR

    But as a said earlier the research is limited here but it isn't much of a stretch to say that one with a milk allergy should avoid milk and there might be the potential of increases chances of developing asthma.
    okay i'm with ya so far..

    That said, your previous statements implied a broad implication across all populations to avoid milk
    Or am I misreading?
    nope, you got it - this is my opinion (but i am by no means alone with this .02)
    milk, soy..oh i could go on

    i feel there are a broad range of issues, that scientific study cannot prove (or there simply is no interest in proving specific applications)

    and that pretty much sums it up, yes
    good work JJ

  25. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    So why offer the opportunity for discussion?
    you again :kicktocurb:

    nah man, just because i have a stance, does not mean i am not op-en to discussion
    it also does not mean i am not open to discussing scientific data - but i need to qualify it, strain it, filter it (personally), to see if it makes sense to me

    i do not just say "oh look - there is study that supports my conclusion!" and be done with it

    no sir


    jim - this IS discussion!
  26. Re: Protein Shake vs FOOD Source


    So what do you expect to base the disccusion off of?

    You want to discuss the health implications of milk but at the same time only accept personal experience and discount clinical research?

    You want to make broad statements on how X will negatively effect everyone and it should be avoided and this statement isn't based on clinical research but just your personal beliefs. Its fine if you want to base your own health decisions off your own gut feelings, thoughts, opinions, etc but to make statements saying it is gonna effect everyone and is based solely on this is wrong.

    How's this for a personal anecdote, i drink milk have asthma and am allergic to casein, and I'm fine.



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  27. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    So what do you expect to base the disccusion off of?
    My thought exactly.....

  28. JJ - i am not dismissing you or your presentation man!
    i am simply discussing how i intellectually absorb things..
    to clarify: my stance does not exclude nor ignore established scientific study, and by no means am i saying i do not wish to view a study you bring up!
    sheesh
    in fact - if there ARE supporting (or non-supporting for that matter) studies that either prove or disprove the stance i make, please by all means - i WOULD like to view them!

    you are good with these studies, very versed..i like that about you in fact

    we on the same page now?

    i simply add - this is not MY PERSONAL sole platform with which to base my stance, and theories outside of 'proven studies' fascinate me too - if i can attach some validity to them, in my head

    ya dig?

  29. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    JJ - i am not dismissing you or your presentation man!
    i am simply discussing how i intellectually absorb things..
    to clarify: my stance does not exclude nor ignore established scientific study, and by no means am i saying i do not wish to view a study you bring up!
    sheesh
    in fact - if there ARE supporting (or non-supporting for that matter) studies that either prove or disprove the stance i make, please by all means - i WOULD like to view them!

    you are good with these studies, very versed..i like that about you in fact

    we on the same page now?
    Indeed he is.

    Lol I'm just in on this one to learn a little either way (about dairy and people)
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