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Protein Shake vs FOOD Source

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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    I wanna post a URL but its not letting me. This is a little bit of the article

    Answer: Real food is by far the most important component of a bodybuilding diet. There are so many nutrients that real food contains, many of which have not even been discovered yet, that you would be doing yourself a disservice by limiting the amount of real food that you are eating.

    In addition, real food has what is called a "thermic effect". A "thermic effect" is the impact that real food has in your metabolism. Because real food requires digestion, your body burns more calories in processing it; as opposed to shakes which are already pre-digested.

    Regardless of what the ads tell you, protein shakes do not offer any muscle building benefit, nor "secret muscle building ingredient", above and beyond what real food offers you. Yes, I have read the ads too with all sorts of speedy muscle building promises but I can assure you through experience that most of the ingredients advertised as miraculous have not been proven to work neither by science (even though most ads of this nature usually talk about research studies that usually do not exist) nor by actual results at the gym. These products however have been proven beyond the shadow of any scientific doubt to shrink the size of your wallet and bank account.
    Ok

    1. Protein powder has an equivalent thermic effect to whole food, since the thermic effect is 99% chemical.
    2. Correct, no muscle-building benefit from one whole protein source over another in the context of a high protein diet.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Ok

    1. Protein powder has an equivalent thermic effect to whole food, since the thermic effect is 99% chemical.
    2. Correct, no muscle-building benefit from one whole protein source over another in the context of a high protein diet.
    Alright I've voiced my opinion enough. To many people against me thinking protein powder is as good as real food so I'm done. Its common sence real food>protein powder. Not trying to start a fight but damn I can't believe some people think they can get by using powder as a permanent substitute for real food. Just do a little research guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    Alright I've voiced my opinion enough. To many people against me thinking protein powder is as good as real food so I'm done. Its common sence real food>protein powder. Not trying to start a fight but damn I can't believe some people think they can get by using powder as a permanent substitute for real food. Just do a little research guys.
    Who is saying to use protein powder as a permnant substitute for real food? I just re-read every post in this thread. Either you can't read or you can't comprehend the phrase "all things in moderation."
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post

    Alright I've voiced my opinion enough. To many people against me thinking protein powder is as good as real food so I'm done. Its common sence real food>protein powder. Not trying to start a fight but damn I can't believe some people think they can get by using powder as a permanent substitute for real food. Just do a little research guys.
    Strong reading comprehension.
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    Haha I'm cornered. Ok guys you win. Gang up on the new guy. Bottom line is if you drink more than 2 protein shakes a day your over doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    Haha I'm cornered. Ok guys you win. Gang up on the new guy. Bottom line is if you drink more than 2 protein shakes a day your over doing it.
    You should write for Flex magazine. They love opinions with no scientific backing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    You should write for Flex magazine. They love opinions with no scientific backing.
    This is a forum. A forum is
    A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    The above are my ideas and views. Just trying to share my knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post

    This is a forum. A forum is
    A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    The above are my ideas and views. Just trying to share my knowledge.
    And when your knowledge is shown to be incorrect by people with much more knowledge than you, you continue to pour out incorrect information without even considering the information presented to you.

    If you aren't here to learn why even sign in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    This is a forum. A forum is
    A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    The above are my ideas and views. Just trying to share my knowledge.
    Your "knowledge" is just repeating what everyone else here said (not to rely solely on protein shakes) and then insisting that we are all whey protein addicts and that we shouldn't be replacing food with shakes.

    Has anyone here disagreed with that point? No. Are you exhibiting symptoms of pre-clinical psychosis, i.e. thinking the world is against you and imagining that people are arguing with you when they are in fact in agreement with you? Yes.
    http://pescience.com/
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    And when your knowledge is shown to be incorrect by people with much more knowledge than you, you continue to pour out incorrect information without even considering the information presented to you.

    If you aren't here to learn why even sign in?
    Haha oh my god man the title of this thread is protein shakes vs food source. Food always wins. What did they do back when they didn't have protein powder. Show me some scientific evidence that powder is as good as food. C'mon I've been trying to prove my point try to prove yours. Educate me bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    You are correct. Nothing makes real food better outside of satiety. However, variety is key. Overdoing, say, chicken breast, leaves your amino acid pool quite skewed towards certain AAs. The same applies to relying heavily on whey protein. The real point is don't overdo any one source (protein or whole food), as you may be short changing yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Ok

    1. Protein powder has an equivalent thermic effect to whole food, since the thermic effect is 99% chemical.
    2. Correct, no muscle-building benefit from one whole protein source over another in the context of a high protein diet.
    Point proven.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post

    Most doctors aren't educated on nutrition, so they will spout ridiculous nonsense like that
    His kidneys had to be effed up in the first place. I am a year away from my BS in nutrition and will get my RD shortly thereafter as well as applying to med school. Most Doctors don't know diddly about nutrition. Neither do most CPTs or coaches. There's a reason nutritionists take 3 yrs of nutrition/chemistry/biology courses
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    So agmatine used at 1g seems to be the normal "full" dose for people for great pumps now my question is if your on cycle you can store more glycogen so if I drink more water and up my agmatine would that create a bigger pump since I'm on cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post

    Haha oh my god man the title of this thread is protein shakes vs food source. Food always wins. What did they do back when they didn't have protein powder. Show me some scientific evidence that powder is as good as food. C'mon I've been trying to prove my point try to prove yours. Educate me bro.
    Protein powder is useful for what it is designed for; giving protein.. Its not a meal replacement or substitute,its something extra to coincide with a diet.
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    Also I would like to point out that I agree that whole foods are better.

    But my main point of disagreement is you saying that protein shakes are damaging to the kidneys because they are somehow different than other forms of protein.

    Macronutrients are macronutrients, its the micronutrients that make the difference for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    You should write for Flex magazine. They love opinions with no scientific backing.
    Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by howwedo107 View Post
    So agmatine used at 1g seems to be the normal "full" dose for people for great pumps now my question is if your on cycle you can store more glycogen so if I drink more water and up my agmatine would that create a bigger pump since I'm on cycle?
    Let's find out
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    Point proven.
    Ok trying to learn not fight. So on # 2 your saying that the protein from real food like meat is just as good as the protein from powder?
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post

    Ok trying to learn not fight. So on # 2 your saying that the protein from real food like meat is just as good as the protein from powder?
    Its all digested and absorbed the same.

    The body doesn't discriminate because of it being liquid and it is all absorbed equally.

    Ultimately it is milk protein, if it were any different from beef or chicken then the same argument could be made for the protein you gain from milk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Protein powder is useful for what it is designed for; giving protein.. Its not a meal replacement or substitute,its something extra to coincide with a diet.
    boom!
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    Regardless of what the ads tell you, protein shakes do not offer any muscle building benefit, nor "secret muscle building ingredient", above and beyond what real food offers you. Yes, I have read the ads too with all sorts of speedy muscle building promises but I can assure you through experience that most of the ingredients advertised as miraculous have not been proven to work neither by science (even though most ads of this nature usually talk about research studies that usually do not exist) nor by actual results at the gym. These products however have been proven beyond the shadow of any scientific doubt to shrink the size of your wallet and bank account.

    So, all his point is, is that protein shakes-powder protein doesn't help you build muscle more than whole food based protein? Well, no sheet. No one here is claiming it does. You just went from arguing protein powder is bad for you, not as beneficial for you as whole foods, to finding some mindless bro science ramble as to why protein powder doesn't contain miracle muscle building qualities.
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    Re: Protein Shake vs FOOD Source


    So the take away here is to sprinkle protein powder on my steak and captain crunch

    Got it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench View Post
    Lmao.. you spill protein into urine after eating a large steak brah. So know steak must be deadly like powders if what your saying is correct.
    Sadly many doctors still tell you to stay away from red meat. It is depressing when you realize just how poor the guidance is from the authority figures that average people interface with on health topics.
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    Whole food is *always* better.

    That being said, 2 scoops protein + 1.5cups of oats is a staple for me most mornings and sometimes evenings if i'm bulking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutztenways View Post

    Sadly many doctors still tell you to stay away from red meat. It is depressing when you realize just how poor the guidance is from the authority figures that average people interface with on health topics.
    Ive never had this issue; in fact quite the opposite. What you must remember is that doctors,as educated as they are, are still human and their own personal feelings into something may end up as being advice whether its based on science or not. In this case if they say avoid red meat then ask why, and counter it if you disagree and try understand their perspective.
    It happens in any industry, not just the medical
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    For anyone who thinks food sources are superior to protein shakes......

    Perhaps they are but my body didn't notice the difference at all.

    I got sick of cooking meat and I am not a fan of convenient, canned or processed meats etc

    So, for about 3 montsh now, I have been using a mixed veggie-protein-powder source (made of pea protein, hemp, brown rice etc) in place of 3 of my 4 meals' meat sources (which for me was white fish)

    I have been doing this for 3+ months and I have not noticed ANY difference in body comp, weight etc

    Just sharing

    Before anyone asks, I continued to eat the other macros alongside the veggie-based protein shake (nuts, vegetables, etc)
    I agree I never noticed a difference when I exerimented a year ago.

    Te only difference was my hunger. I was more hungry and missed the chew factor and feeling like I'm eating
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    how did i miss this fun thread?

    i just gotsta get my pennies involved here lol

    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    All that liquid protein is bad for your kidneys.
    no
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Sorry man but there is very little evidence to suggest that excessive protein intakes will harm kidney function, especially at intakes considered normal by the bodybuilding population.
    actually, in the healthy functioning individual, there is none

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I should have added that excess protein may only harm your kidneys if you have a pre-existing condition.
    glad you semi-cleaned that up

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    1. Protein powder has an equivalent thermic effect to whole food, since the thermic effect is 99% chemical.
    2. Correct, no muscle-building benefit from one whole protein source over another in the context of a high protein diet.
    but the chew factor bro, the chew factor
    you are missing out on bodycomp friendly cal-burning in cuts by not chewing, which burns more calories than does swallowing a liquid!


    Quote Originally Posted by liftandeat View Post
    Bottom line is if you drink more than 2 protein shakes a day your over doing it.
    bottom line:
    still no


    all that said - i will say it is my preference to have real food
    i kinda enjoy that
    at the same time, 3 steaks + 3 shakes a day will get a mug swole
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    Nice input Snags
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    I'm surprised that no one has pointed out, that chewing your food releases digestive enzymes, which help digest and absorb your food.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronagis View Post
    I'm surprised that no one has pointed out, that chewing your food releases digestive enzymes, which help digest and absorb your food.
    Chew bubblegum
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronagis View Post
    I'm surprised that no one has pointed out, that chewing your food releases digestive enzymes, which help digest and absorb your food.
    Digestive enzymes will be released once the protein shakes hits your stomach anyway. You miss out on salivary amylase, which is essentially only there to clean up leftover starches in the mouth (hence why chewing sugar-free gum is considered good for your teeth, as it promotes such release).
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Digestive enzymes will be released once the protein shakes hits your stomach anyway. You miss out on salivary amylase, which is essentially only there to clean up leftover starches in the mouth (hence why chewing sugar-free gum is considered good for your teeth, as it promotes such release).
    The digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas are critical to proper digestion, especially for foods that contain protein. Through the stimulation of the vagus nerve, chewing can provoke the pancreas to release itís digestive enzymes. As such, thorough chewing will likely lead to an increase in digestive enzyme production and result in more complete digestion.

    Unfortunately, chewing on gum can also stimulate the pancreas, but because thereís no food to digest, this results in a release of digestive enzymes that arenít needed. If this happens on a regular basis, it could wear down the pancreas, result in a decline of digestive enzymes, and lead to chronically compromised digestion and health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronagis View Post
    The digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas are critical to proper digestion, especially for foods that contain protein. Through the stimulation of the vagus nerve, chewing can provoke the pancreas to release it’s digestive enzymes. As such, thorough chewing will likely lead to an increase in digestive enzyme production and result in more complete digestion.

    Unfortunately, chewing on gum can also stimulate the pancreas, but because there’s no food to digest, this results in a release of digestive enzymes that aren’t needed. If this happens on a regular basis, it could wear down the pancreas, result in a decline of digestive enzymes, and lead to chronically compromised digestion and health.
    I am well aware of how duodenal digestion is mediated (my post was about salivary amylase), and release can occur at numerous stages (smelling food, tasting food [<- note that chewing is not required!], and pepsin release).

    I find it hard to believe that one would deplete digestive enzymes via gum-chewing, but if you have a source for that claim, I'd be happy to read it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronagis View Post
    Unfortunately, chewing on gum can also stimulate the pancreas, but because there’s no food to digest, this results in a release of digestive enzymes that aren’t needed. If this happens on a regular basis, it could wear down the pancreas, result in a decline of digestive enzymes, and lead to chronically compromised digestion and health.
    so all those hundreds of thousands of smokers who quit by taking up gum-chewing ...
    are yet still compromising their health
    huh
    damned if you and damned if you don't


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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I am well aware of how duodenal digestion is mediated (my post was about salivary amylase), and release can occur at numerous stages (smelling food, tasting food [<- note that chewing is not required!], and pepsin release).

    I find it hard to believe that one would deplete digestive enzymes via gum-chewing, but if you have a source for that claim, I'd be happy to read it.
    i find it hard to believe that anyone would partake in an intellectual battle with mr cooper
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post

    i find it hard to believe that anyone would partake in an intellectual battle with mr cooper
    He's new here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    He's new here.
    or trollin
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post
    i find it hard to believe that anyone would partake in an intellectual battle with mr cooper
    while i respect the compliment paid to cy, this is double-edges sword my friend
    great source of info is he..
    always remember however, it is never a good practice, to never question a source of information
    no disrespect meant whatsoever (to either him or you), but what you infer here is actually quite a scary proposition

    if you never question what you are told, you will never have true growth
    in fact, may be quite misinformed on some things, at the end of the day

    always question your sources
    always
    FINAFLEX Product Educator
    visit our website at finaflex.com
    contact me at snagency@finaflex.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    while i respect the compliment paid to cy, this is double-edges sword my friend
    great source of info is he..
    always remember however, it is never a good practice, to never question a source of information
    no disrespect meant whatsoever (to either him or you), but what you infer here is actually quite a scary proposition

    if you never question what you are told, you will never have true growth
    in fact, may be quite misinformed on some things, at the end of the day

    always question your sources
    always
    i did not mean to be so definitive
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