PQQ~ The heavy-hitter in my stack!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post

    100% placebo
    Sort of like versa1 ? Lololol


  2. Glad to see Coop did drop by, it was only a matter of time ! And Thanks for that IronFist!
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Ok, I'm sold. Already on 200 mg Ubiquinol.


    Kinda sounds a little like the effects of idebenone, which I have used. I liked the noot effect and the energy, unfortunately after a week or sustained use it seemed to build up in my system an not let me sleep at all. Any sleep issues with PQQ? Admittedly, I seem to be super sensitive to this particular side. Many racetams and carnitines disrupt my sleep as well.
    My sleep has actually improved since taking PQQ. I've always suffered from a bit of insomnia and within 30 minutes of dosing, I notice that I'm not anymore sedated but much more calm and clear headed which allows for an easier time to get to sleep; lack of a billion thoughts racing through my mind like I normally experience when trying to fall asleep.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    100% placebo
    I'm going with the notion that you've never taken it or haven't at effective doses ranging from 20-40mg. There is absolutely no placebo effect whatsoever. Having been on Adderall for almost 3 years, I've spent a lot of time and money educating myself on supplements/substances to provide neuroprotection, cardio protection and to enhance cognitive abilities which after some time Adderall can certainly take a toll on. Upon starting PQQ, my typing speed doubled, sleep requirements dropped, word recall, memory and focus all increased quite a bit. I'll admit that for a perfectly healthy individual, the effects may be more subtle. I, however, will admit that over the last 5 years I've put my brain and body through absolute hell. Suffered a huge loss a few years ago, dabbled into Extacy quite a few times along with some other substances to "cope" and excape. Needless to say I fell out of my true passion, bodybuilding. I've spent the last year of my life picking up the pieces of my life and finding my motivation for life again. Even this forum was at one time such a huge part of my life which I forgot about for a long time. Just being on here the last few weeks has done more for me than I can explain; actually establishing goals to get back into the sport again is huge to me. The memory enhancing effects of PQQ truly don't go unnoticed and in some cases, like mine, it's that very thing that can be the difference between one loosing all hope for life and remembering what brought pleasure, joy and motivation for life without just turning toward a substance.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    I'm going with the notion that you've never taken it or haven't at effective doses ranging from 20-40mg. There is absolutely no placebo effect whatsoever. Having been on Adderall for almost 3 years, I've spent a lot of time and money educating myself on supplements/substances to provide neuroprotection, cardio protection and to enhance cognitive abilities which after some time Adderall can certainly take a toll on. Upon starting PQQ, my typing speed doubled, sleep requirements dropped, word recall, memory and focus all increased quite a bit. I'll admit that for a perfectly healthy individual, the effects may be more subtle. I, however, will admit that over the last 5 years I've put my brain and body through absolute hell. Suffered a huge loss a few years ago, dabbled into Extacy quite a few times along with some other substances to "cope" and excape. Needless to say I fell out of my true passion, bodybuilding. I've spent the last year of my life picking up the pieces of my life and finding my motivation for life again. Even this forum was at one time such a huge part of my life which I forgot about for a long time. Just being on here the last few weeks has done more for me than I can explain; actually establishing goals to get back into the sport again is huge to me. The memory enhancing effects of PQQ truly don't go unnoticed and in some cases, like mine, it's that very thing that can be the difference between one loosing all hope for life and remembering what brought pleasure, joy and motivation for life without just turning toward a substance.
    I've taken mega-doses of PQQ, as has many other people on longecity/imminst, and no one has ever reported these "symptoms."

    Placebo strikes again.
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  6. Any links to this stuff? Keen on reading more.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    Any links to this stuff? Keen on reading more.
    Pyrroloquinoline quinone: a novel vitamin?http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9810806

    Potential physiological importance of pyrroloquinoline quinone.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19803551
    Pyrroloquinoline Quinone (PQQ) Prevents Cognitive Deficit Caused by Oxidative Stress in Rats.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18231627
    Effect of pyrroloquinoline quinone on neuropathic pain following chronic constriction injury of the sciatic nerve in rats.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23063836
    Pyrroloquinoline quinone enhances regeneration of transected sciatic nerve in rats.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16042869




    Stimulation of nerve growth factor synthesis/secretion in mouse astroglial cells by coenzymes.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8401318

  8. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    I've taken mega-doses of PQQ, as has many other people on longecity/imminst, and no one has ever reported these "symptoms."

    Placebo strikes again.
    Quite the read, but I'm clearly not the only one

    PQQ supplementation also improved sleep, leading to reduced negative
    mental states, relief of fatigue and rise of positive mood
    http://www.douglaslabs.com/pdf/trial...nd%20Sleep.pdf

  9. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Ok, things are getting a bit pseudo-sciency here. D-Ribose and NADH are worthless as supplements btw
    I wouldn't go as far as saying they're useless. Apart from NADH stimulating tyrosine hydroxylase which is beneficial to me having been on Adderall for 3 years; many of my personal training clients who suffer from chronic fatigue syndrome have seen drastic improvement after supplementing with both NADH and D-Ribose.

    Therapeutic effects of oral NADH on the symptoms of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10071523
    D-Ribose Supplementation in CFS
    http://www.seekinghealth.com/media/U...bromyalgia.pdf

    Amphetamine-induced changes in dopamine receptors in early postnatal rat brain.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19145071

  10. Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    Quite the read, but I'm clearly not the only one

    PQQ supplementation also improved sleep, leading to reduced negative
    mental states, relief of fatigue and rise of positive mood
    douglaslabs. com/pdf/trials/H%202012%20-%20Effects%20of%20Oral%20Suppl ementation%20with%20PQQ%20on%2 0Stress,%20Fatigue,%20and%20Sl eep.pdf
    lol. This study did not even have a control group. Placebo much?

  11. And does Longecity have a control group? Just sayin'. Seems like a little anecdote a anecdote action.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    And does Longecity have a control group? Just sayin'. Seems like a little anecdote a anecdote action.
    You don't need a control group for complete lack of effect. If I had said PQQ made me ill, then I could be suffering from negative placebo, or nocebo, and then I would require a control group. On the other hand, one would have to be exceptionally naive to believe that PQQ could produce the constellation of effects listed by the OP.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    You don't need a control group for complete lack of effect. If I had said PQQ made me ill, then I could be suffering from negative placebo, or nocebo, and then I would require a control group. On the other hand, one would have to be exceptionally naive to believe that PQQ could produce the constellation of effects listed by the OP.
    Just going off what I have experienced with this supplement brotha. I've spent more time and money than I dare to calculate on supplements and regimens in an attempt to repair the damage that I inflicted on my brain and body the last 4-5 years. Nothing has come close to having an overall effect as PQQ.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    Just going off what I have experienced with this supplement brotha. I've spent more time and money than I dare to calculate on supplements and regimens in an attempt to repair the damage that I inflicted on my brain and body the last 4-5 years. Nothing has come close to having an overall effect as PQQ.
    I actually agree with you. You spent and unimaginable amount of money until you finally found the placebo that works best for your wallet, keep enjoying it bro. The point of all this is being happy and enjoying the lifestyle right?
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    I actually agree with you. You spent and unimaginable amount of money until you finally found the placebo that works best for your wallet, keep enjoying it bro. The point of all this is being happy and enjoying the lifestyle right?
    I guess I don't understand the view point of it being 100% placebo when there's countless studies which back up it's various effects.

    http://www.humanclinicals.org/PQQ.html
    http://www.luckyvitamin.com/skins%5C...E_PQQ_Caps.pdf

    I just haven't came across one article, study or comparison that placebo outperformed PQQ on any measures of cognition or memory. I think everyone would agree that serious nerve pain is difficult to cure with placebo. Having suffered a fractured back and concussion from a skydiving accident, I've had pretty bad lower back and nerve pain ever since. Since starting PQQ the pain has gone from a daily 7-8 to a 1-2 out of 10. It's well documented that it stimulates NGF & I've noticed it's effects in that area big time. Hell, I don't want to start an argument with anyone, just wanted to share my experiences with anyone who may be in a similar situation who could benefit from it.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    I guess I don't understand the view point of it being 100% placebo when there's countless studies which back up it's various effects.

    link 1
    link 2

    I just haven't came across one article, study or comparison that placebo outperformed PQQ on any measures of cognition or memory. I think everyone would agree that serious nerve pain is difficult to cure with placebo. Having suffered a fractured back and concussion from a skydiving accident, I've had pretty bad lower back and nerve pain ever since. Since starting PQQ the pain has gone from a daily 7-8 to a 1-2 out of 10. It's well documented that it stimulates NGF & I've noticed it's effects in that area big time. Hell, I don't want to start an argument with anyone, just wanted to share my experiences with anyone who may be in a similar situation who could benefit from it.
    The first "study" you posted was published in the "journal" Food Style

    Impact factor = 0

    The second link is an advertisement.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    The first "study" you posted was published in the "journal" Food Style

    Impact factor = 0

    The second link is an advertisement.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8401318
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15915445
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9810806

    If anyone does any of their own research on PQQ, they'll find more and more claims backing up what I've stated. Really not understanding the negativity. It's a supplement with benefits that have been proven over and over again. If you don't need it or find it's effects aren't what you're after, then great don't use it. I simply have no reason to lie about it, I don't sell it or have a biased opinion. I feel the effects I stated more than likely due to the damage I caused myself over the last few years; someone with an optimal neurological function going into may not feel a thing; but it's not the case with me.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by freqfly View Post
    link 1
    link 2
    link 3

    If anyone does any of their own research on PQQ, they'll find more and more claims backing up what I've stated. Really not understanding the negativity. It's a supplement with benefits that have been proven over and over again. If you don't need it or find it's effects aren't what you're after, then great don't use it. I simply have no reason to lie about it, I don't sell it or have a biased opinion. I feel the effects I stated more than likely due to the damage I caused myself over the last few years; someone with an optimal neurological function going into may not feel a thing; but it's not the case with me.
    The first two links were performed in a test tube, and the third link is a review. PQQ is a very interesting compound and may be beneficial for people with mitochondrial insufficiencies, although it still cannot produce the effects you described in your original post. If anything, its effects would be gradual and subtle, not striking - and certainly not resembling anything you previously wrote.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    The first two links were performed in a test tube, and the third link is a review. PQQ is a very interesting compound and may be beneficial for people with mitochondrial insufficiencies, although it still cannot produce the effects you described in your original post. If anything, its effects would be gradual and subtle, not striking - and certainly not resembling anything you previously wrote.
    I simply said it helps me with cognition, anxiety, mental clarity/energy; effects I've noticed since starting it. For me with major issues in those areas after a two year benzo addiction, the effects were quite striking. Though for someon else they may be more subtle.

  20. As with many compounds, sometimes there's only one real way to find out and that's to try it yourself. I'm giving it a whirl next week and will report on my experiences. I already take 200 mg Ubiquinol/day as a staple and notice the effects in terms of energy when I run out. If PQQ boosts this effect in a noticeable way, then I might add it to my staples. Cost being significant, the cost/benefit ratio needs to be significant in order to make the cut.

    This may be more of a supp for those with mitochondrial issues or advanced age, but the literature is interesting.

  21. freqfly, thanks for enduring the barrage. I am going to try it, I have energy issues, I'll report if it does anything.

  22. On my second day of 20mg/day. Noticing some subtle increases in energy coupled with an almost eery sense of relaxation. Slept well last night. When not doing anything, I feel extra relaxed and zoned out but can snap back to attention quickly, read, write, process, and communicate well.

    Cardio performance today had no real differences. Was distracted halfway through by "that guy" who bathes in cologne before coming to the gym, so I had to switch treadmills. Couldn't tune that out, but then I am normally in the zone yet testy at the gym (ie hate distractions).

    Interesting and time will tell if its worth it. Might have to cycle on and off a few times to really pin it down as it is subtle.

  23. PQQ is amazing for mitochondrial health. I'm a big fan and use Cogni-Q from AOR - Advanced Orthomolecular Research. 20mg PQQ combined with 200mg CoQ10 just as shown in recent study to aid cognitive function in young adults.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Pet(e) View Post
    PQQ is amazing for mitochondrial health. I'm a big fan and use Cogni-Q from AOR - Advanced Orthomolecular Research. 20mg PQQ combined with 200mg CoQ10 just as shown in recent study to aid cognitive function in young adults.
    Im going to try that!

  25. I already use 200 mg Ubiquinol, which I like a lot for energy/stamina/cardio health but so far it feels like the PQQ is giving it a little boost. I woke up this morning a lot faster than normal and my brain seems to be peppy already which is unusual as I am not a morning person.
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