Best current test-booster?

[mr.cooper69]

The over active feeling you get " down there" from l-arginine and yohimbe is because both of these act as vasodilalators and open up your blood vessels allowing more blood flow to your member.

Actually, neither will act as vasodilators.

Arginine absorption and further metabolization to NO is too tightly regulated to overcome via oral administration.

Yohimbine is a vasoconstrictor and improves the psychogenic, not organic, milieu necessary to get an erection: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...22534701639429

[cainb96]

Would DAA, T-911, & Form-X be a good stack of overkill?

[Airborne42]

Would DAA, T-911, & Form-X be a good stack of overkill?

FormulaX? That's a Daa product as well

[BigMikeC]

Would DAA, T-911, & Form-X be a good stack of overkill?

I'd stick to the Formx and T911 that'll still give you 3 grams of daa. You could add the daa to our new Formxt as it doesnt have Daa but rather calcium lactate. I've seen some studies where calcium lactate and daa work synergistically together.

[BigMikeC]

Actually, neither will act as vasodilators.

Arginine absorption and further metabolization to NO is too tightly regulated to overcome via oral administration.

Yohimbine is a vasoconstrictor and improves the psychogenic, not organic, milieu necessary to get an erection:

I've used both arginine and yohimbe and have found them both two be useful in sexual performance. I still feel that arginine is an effective vasodilator and nitric oxide booster. And yohimbe is still good at helping one reach a better erection maybe not through vasodialtion, possibly through acting as an aphrodisiac? It does seems that some people may be non responders to yohimbe's effects, but I myself have found success with it in enhancing sexual performance.

"L-arginine transport and nitric oxide synthesis in human endothelial progenitor cells."

ABSTRACT:: Nitric oxide (NO) is an endogenous vasodilator molecule synthetized from L-arginine by a family of nitric oxide synthases. In differentiated human endothelial cells, it is well known that L-arginine uptake via cationic amino acid transporters (y/CAT) or system yL is required for the NO synthesis via endothelial nitric oxide synthase, but there are no reports in human endothelial progenitor cell (hEPC). Therefore, we isolated hEPCs from peripheral blood of healthy donors and cultured them for either 3 (hEPC-3d) or 14 days (hEPC-14d) to characterize the L-arginine transport and NO synthesis in those cells. L-arginine transport and NO synthesis were analyzed in the presence or absence of N-ethylmaleimide or L-nitroarginine methyl ester, as inhibitors of y/CAT system and nitric oxide synthases, respectively. The results showed that L-arginine uptake is higher in hEPC-14d than in hEPC-3d. Kinetic parameters for L-arginine transport showed the existence of at least 2 transporter systems in hEPC: a high affinity transporter system (Km= 4.8 ± 1.1 μM for hEPC-3d and 6.1 ± 2.4 μM for hEPC-14d) and a medium affinity transporter system (Km = 85.1 ± 4.0 μM for hEPC-3d and 95.1 ± 8 μM for hEPC-14d). Accordingly, hEPC expressed mRNA and protein for CAT-1 (ie, system y) and mRNA for 2 subunits of yL system, yLAT1, and 4F2hc. Higher L-citruline production and NO bioavailability (4-fold), and endothelial nitric oxide synthase expression (both mRNA and protein) were observed in hEPC-14d compared with hEPC-3d. Finally, the high L-citruline formation observed in hEPC-14d was blocked by N-ethylmaleimide. In conclusion, this study allowed to identity a functional L-arginine/NO pathway in two hEPC differentiation stages, which improves the understanding of the physiology of these precursor cells.


Yohimbine treatment of organic erectile dysfunction in a dose-escalation trial.

Abstract

Yohimbine has had questionable effects in men with organic erectile dysfunction. We conducted this study to better define the population of men responsive to yohimbine, because tobacco was thought to affect a regimen of yohimbine more than other risk factors. We measured nocturnal penile tumescence with the RigiScan monitor, hormone profiles, answers to the Florida Sexual Health Questionnaire, and clinical responses at baseline and after two different doses of yohimbine in 18 nonsmoking men with erectile dysfunction. Of the 18 men, nine (50%) were successful in completing intercourse in more than 75% of attempts. The yohimbine responders were men with less severe erectile dysfunction as manifested by improved increased rigidity on RigiScan testing, higher Florida Sexual Health Questionnaire scores, and slightly higher levels of serum testosterone. Yohimbine is an effective therapy to treat organic erectile dysfunction in some men with erectile dysfunction.

[mr.cooper69]

The first study has been disproven by 10 times more studies in actual humans. not culture.

The last study was a part of the meta-analysis I posted and is anomalous.


Science isn't about posting a study here and there. It's about understanding mechanistic explanations, connecting the dots, and forming a global understanding of the ingredient in question.

[threeFs]

I've run a lot of stuff in my time and every combination imaginable. I could blow away $100 worth of test boosters with a $15 bottle of clomid.

/end thread

[BigMikeC]

That first study was actually from Nov 2012 so fairly current. I don't just read a study here or there but actually speak from real life application. I've used both arginine and yomimbe with success and know many others that have as well.

[bdcc]

As soon as I read "arginine and yohimbine work as vasodilators" I wondered who was going to be first to take centre stage lol.

[mr.cooper69]

That first study was actually from Nov 2012 so fairly current. I don't just read a study here or there but actually speak from real life application. I've used both arginine and yomimbe with success and know many others that have as well.

Did you not read my post? You have to look at the existing base of literature, not one study that just came out.

You may have success with yohimbine, but you've got the reason wrong.

And if you've had success with arginine, I'm sorry but that's placebo.

[schroedes]

Reboot, basically its erase, daa, and cort control in one

[OrganicShadow]

Depends on what I'm going for. I found different products to yield different results.

DAA of any kind: I need 4-5g to see anything and I've never been real impressed.
For a hard, vascular and more cut up work: Erase, Free Test, or AD3. I highly recommend NOT stacking these together, joints will be dry like a desert.
For a more fuller, sized up look and strength gains: IGF2, TestoPro, Animal M-Stak (minus the red pill)

Chaotic Labz makes Annihilation which, at the price of about $120, is the most complete all round natty test boost ive found and it is good stuff... but its also $120.

FreeTest+IGF2 or TestoPro+IGF2 = win.

-OS-Team AppNut

[mr.cooper69]

Annihilation is junk. If you look at the label, zinc is the 3rd ingredient, which should clock in at a little over 100mg MAXIMUM. So you're really only buying DAA and fadogia.

[thebigt]

Annihilation is junk. If you look at the label, zinc is the 3rd ingredient, which should clock in at a little over 100mg MAXIMUM. So you're really only buying DAA and fadogia.

did someone say fadogia?

my vote goes to bps-endosurge/formasurge!!! if you threw in some i-force fadogia, and sns inhibit-p, it's possible your penis could explode...hope that is clinical enough for ya coop, lol.


trying out t-blast, but to early to comment.

[kateean2]

Bioforge V3 all time favourite followed by Triazole.

[threeFs]

DAA of any kind: I need 4-5g to see anything and I've never been real impressed.

Funny because the wrath of the DAA fanboys was unleashed on me in another thread when I amounted to the same.

But let's get back to Clomid for a second. Before recommending Testosterone Replacement Therapy, some doctors and/or endocrinologists (the well-informed, that is) prescribe Clomid in what's known as a "Clomid Challenge."
As Clomid is a SERM, it's effects on E2, and particularly estradiol in men, can have a tremendous positive effect on testosterone. This is not bro science, but rather simple chemistry.

[Spaniard]

Funny because the wrath of the DAA fanboys was unleashed on me in another thread when I amounted to the same.

But let's get back to Clomid for a second. Before recommending Testosterone Replacement Therapy, some doctors and/or endocrinologists (the well-informed, that is) prescribe Clomid in what's known as a "Clomid Challenge."
As Clomid is a SERM, it's effects on E2, and particularly estradiol in men, can have a tremendous positive effect on testosterone. This is not bro science, but rather simple chemistry.

Come on bro you need to take it easy. There was no "wrath" of DAA fanboys that were unleashed upon you. I simply asked you not to say its trash. Then jiiggz asked about bloods.

He asked you that not to call you out or say you're wrong, this isn't BB dot com. He was asking to try and get a full spectrum view on what was actually going on.

Lets talk about Clomid for a second... First off, for most its illegal to use without an rx. Obtaining things like that from a research chem company is extremely tricky. It also comes with a whole host of side effects. One of my guys at the fire station was on it trying to reboot his T and ended up having to get off of it. He was sleeping all day, literally 16 hours a day, he was emotional and depressed.

^ this is a perfect example of what we're discussing right now. Clomid may work for some BUT in others it can cause emotional problems, lethargy, (just a minute example of the sides it has) and some times it doesn't even work. Sound familiar? DAA didn't work for you, Clomid doesn't work for some.

No one is recommending DAA as a TRT option its a "natural" booster. You mentioned simple chemistry, well, if you're into science, search on pubmed for the research on DAA. The research is there, the results are there. Maybe not for you but such is life, some supps don't work for everyone.

Again, relax a little bit man no one is attacking you.

- Valdez

[thebigt]

Come on bro you need to take it easy. There was no "wrath" of DAA fanboys that were unleashed upon you. I simply asked you not to say its trash. Then jiiggz asked about bloods.

He asked you that not to call you out or say you're wrong, this isn't BB dot com. He was asking to try and get a full spectrum view on what was actually going on.

Lets talk about Clomid for a second... First off, for most its illegal to use without an rx. Obtaining things like that from a research chem company is extremely tricky. It also comes with a whole host of side effects. One of my guys at the fire station was on it trying to reboot his T and ended up having to get off of it. He was sleeping all day, literally 16 hours a day, he was emotional and depressed.

^ this is a perfect example of what we're discussing right now. Clomid may work for some BUT in others it can cause emotional problems, lethargy, (just a minute example of the sides it has) and some times it doesn't even work. Sound familiar? DAA didn't work for you, Clomid doesn't work for some.

No one is recommending DAA as a TRT option its a "natural" booster. You mentioned simple chemistry, well, if you're into science, search on pubmed for the research on DAA. The research is there, the results are there. Maybe not for you but such is life, some supps don't work for everyone.

Again, relax a little bit man no one is attacking you.

- Valdez

[ricroc]

Lets talk about Clomid for a second... First off, for most its illegal to use without an rx. Obtaining things like that from a research chem company is extremely tricky.

- Valdez

Thanks for mentioning this and bringing it up.

[threeFs]

it's all just one biiiig science experiment we perform upon ourselves, isn't it

edit
oh, and I suppose if someone was looking for a test booster, I inferred that they have a problem with their current test levels. In which case, I would recommend the counsel of a doctor, not an online board, hence my recommendation to investigate in Clomid. I did not mention any sources nor condone it's illegal use.