Best current test-booster?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeC View Post
    The over active feeling you get " down there" from l-arginine and yohimbe is because both of these act as vasodilalators and open up your blood vessels allowing more blood flow to your member.
    Actually, neither will act as vasodilators.

    Arginine absorption and further metabolization to NO is too tightly regulated to overcome via oral administration.

    Yohimbine is a vasoconstrictor and improves the psychogenic, not organic, milieu necessary to get an erection: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...22534701639429
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    Would DAA, T-911, & Form-X be a good stack of overkill?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cainb96 View Post
    Would DAA, T-911, & Form-X be a good stack of overkill?
    FormulaX? That's a Daa product as well
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    Quote Originally Posted by cainb96 View Post
    Would DAA, T-911, & Form-X be a good stack of overkill?
    I'd stick to the Formx and T911 that'll still give you 3 grams of daa. You could add the daa to our new Formxt as it doesnt have Daa but rather calcium lactate. I've seen some studies where calcium lactate and daa work synergistically together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Actually, neither will act as vasodilators.

    Arginine absorption and further metabolization to NO is too tightly regulated to overcome via oral administration.

    Yohimbine is a vasoconstrictor and improves the psychogenic, not organic, milieu necessary to get an erection:
    I've used both arginine and yohimbe and have found them both two be useful in sexual performance. I still feel that arginine is an effective vasodilator and nitric oxide booster. And yohimbe is still good at helping one reach a better erection maybe not through vasodialtion, possibly through acting as an aphrodisiac? It does seems that some people may be non responders to yohimbe's effects, but I myself have found success with it in enhancing sexual performance.

    "L-arginine transport and nitric oxide synthesis in human endothelial progenitor cells."

    ABSTRACT:: Nitric oxide (NO) is an endogenous vasodilator molecule synthetized from L-arginine by a family of nitric oxide synthases. In differentiated human endothelial cells, it is well known that L-arginine uptake via cationic amino acid transporters (y/CAT) or system yL is required for the NO synthesis via endothelial nitric oxide synthase, but there are no reports in human endothelial progenitor cell (hEPC). Therefore, we isolated hEPCs from peripheral blood of healthy donors and cultured them for either 3 (hEPC-3d) or 14 days (hEPC-14d) to characterize the L-arginine transport and NO synthesis in those cells. L-arginine transport and NO synthesis were analyzed in the presence or absence of N-ethylmaleimide or L-nitroarginine methyl ester, as inhibitors of y/CAT system and nitric oxide synthases, respectively. The results showed that L-arginine uptake is higher in hEPC-14d than in hEPC-3d. Kinetic parameters for L-arginine transport showed the existence of at least 2 transporter systems in hEPC: a high affinity transporter system (Km= 4.8 1.1 μM for hEPC-3d and 6.1 2.4 μM for hEPC-14d) and a medium affinity transporter system (Km = 85.1 4.0 μM for hEPC-3d and 95.1 8 μM for hEPC-14d). Accordingly, hEPC expressed mRNA and protein for CAT-1 (ie, system y) and mRNA for 2 subunits of yL system, yLAT1, and 4F2hc. Higher L-citruline production and NO bioavailability (4-fold), and endothelial nitric oxide synthase expression (both mRNA and protein) were observed in hEPC-14d compared with hEPC-3d. Finally, the high L-citruline formation observed in hEPC-14d was blocked by N-ethylmaleimide. In conclusion, this study allowed to identity a functional L-arginine/NO pathway in two hEPC differentiation stages, which improves the understanding of the physiology of these precursor cells.


    Yohimbine treatment of organic erectile dysfunction in a dose-escalation trial.

    Abstract

    Yohimbine has had questionable effects in men with organic erectile dysfunction. We conducted this study to better define the population of men responsive to yohimbine, because tobacco was thought to affect a regimen of yohimbine more than other risk factors. We measured nocturnal penile tumescence with the RigiScan monitor, hormone profiles, answers to the Florida Sexual Health Questionnaire, and clinical responses at baseline and after two different doses of yohimbine in 18 nonsmoking men with erectile dysfunction. Of the 18 men, nine (50%) were successful in completing intercourse in more than 75% of attempts. The yohimbine responders were men with less severe erectile dysfunction as manifested by improved increased rigidity on RigiScan testing, higher Florida Sexual Health Questionnaire scores, and slightly higher levels of serum testosterone. Yohimbine is an effective therapy to treat organic erectile dysfunction in some men with erectile dysfunction.
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    The first study has been disproven by 10 times more studies in actual humans. not culture.

    The last study was a part of the meta-analysis I posted and is anomalous.


    Science isn't about posting a study here and there. It's about understanding mechanistic explanations, connecting the dots, and forming a global understanding of the ingredient in question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post
    I've run a lot of stuff in my time and every combination imaginable. I could blow away $100 worth of test boosters with a $15 bottle of clomid.
    /end thread
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    That first study was actually from Nov 2012 so fairly current. I don't just read a study here or there but actually speak from real life application. I've used both arginine and yomimbe with success and know many others that have as well.
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    As soon as I read "arginine and yohimbine work as vasodilators" I wondered who was going to be first to take centre stage lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeC View Post
    That first study was actually from Nov 2012 so fairly current. I don't just read a study here or there but actually speak from real life application. I've used both arginine and yomimbe with success and know many others that have as well.
    Did you not read my post? You have to look at the existing base of literature, not one study that just came out.

    You may have success with yohimbine, but you've got the reason wrong.

    And if you've had success with arginine, I'm sorry but that's placebo.
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    Depends on what I'm going for. I found different products to yield different results.

    DAA of any kind: I need 4-5g to see anything and I've never been real impressed.
    For a hard, vascular and more cut up work: Erase, Free Test, or AD3. I highly recommend NOT stacking these together, joints will be dry like a desert.
    For a more fuller, sized up look and strength gains: IGF2, TestoPro, Animal M-Stak (minus the red pill)

    Chaotic Labz makes Annihilation which, at the price of about $120, is the most complete all round natty test boost ive found and it is good stuff... but its also $120.

    FreeTest+IGF2 or TestoPro+IGF2 = win.

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    Annihilation is junk. If you look at the label, zinc is the 3rd ingredient, which should clock in at a little over 100mg MAXIMUM. So you're really only buying DAA and fadogia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Annihilation is junk. If you look at the label, zinc is the 3rd ingredient, which should clock in at a little over 100mg MAXIMUM. So you're really only buying DAA and fadogia.
    did someone say fadogia?

    my vote goes to bps-endosurge/formasurge!!! if you threw in some i-force fadogia, and sns inhibit-p, it's possible your penis could explode...hope that is clinical enough for ya coop, lol.


    trying out t-blast, but to early to comment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post

    DAA of any kind: I need 4-5g to see anything and I've never been real impressed.
    Funny because the wrath of the DAA fanboys was unleashed on me in another thread when I amounted to the same.

    But let's get back to Clomid for a second. Before recommending Testosterone Replacement Therapy, some doctors and/or endocrinologists (the well-informed, that is) prescribe Clomid in what's known as a "Clomid Challenge."
    As Clomid is a SERM, it's effects on E2, and particularly estradiol in men, can have a tremendous positive effect on testosterone. This is not bro science, but rather simple chemistry.
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    Re: Best current test-booster?


    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    Funny because the wrath of the DAA fanboys was unleashed on me in another thread when I amounted to the same.

    But let's get back to Clomid for a second. Before recommending Testosterone Replacement Therapy, some doctors and/or endocrinologists (the well-informed, that is) prescribe Clomid in what's known as a "Clomid Challenge."
    As Clomid is a SERM, it's effects on E2, and particularly estradiol in men, can have a tremendous positive effect on testosterone. This is not bro science, but rather simple chemistry.
    Come on bro you need to take it easy. There was no "wrath" of DAA fanboys that were unleashed upon you. I simply asked you not to say its trash. Then jiiggz asked about bloods.

    He asked you that not to call you out or say you're wrong, this isn't BB dot com. He was asking to try and get a full spectrum view on what was actually going on.

    Lets talk about Clomid for a second... First off, for most its illegal to use without an rx. Obtaining things like that from a research chem company is extremely tricky. It also comes with a whole host of side effects. One of my guys at the fire station was on it trying to reboot his T and ended up having to get off of it. He was sleeping all day, literally 16 hours a day, he was emotional and depressed.

    ^ this is a perfect example of what we're discussing right now. Clomid may work for some BUT in others it can cause emotional problems, lethargy, (just a minute example of the sides it has) and some times it doesn't even work. Sound familiar? DAA didn't work for you, Clomid doesn't work for some.

    No one is recommending DAA as a TRT option its a "natural" booster. You mentioned simple chemistry, well, if you're into science, search on pubmed for the research on DAA. The research is there, the results are there. Maybe not for you but such is life, some supps don't work for everyone.

    Again, relax a little bit man no one is attacking you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Come on bro you need to take it easy. There was no "wrath" of DAA fanboys that were unleashed upon you. I simply asked you not to say its trash. Then jiiggz asked about bloods.

    He asked you that not to call you out or say you're wrong, this isn't BB dot com. He was asking to try and get a full spectrum view on what was actually going on.

    Lets talk about Clomid for a second... First off, for most its illegal to use without an rx. Obtaining things like that from a research chem company is extremely tricky. It also comes with a whole host of side effects. One of my guys at the fire station was on it trying to reboot his T and ended up having to get off of it. He was sleeping all day, literally 16 hours a day, he was emotional and depressed.

    ^ this is a perfect example of what we're discussing right now. Clomid may work for some BUT in others it can cause emotional problems, lethargy, (just a minute example of the sides it has) and some times it doesn't even work. Sound familiar? DAA didn't work for you, Clomid doesn't work for some.

    No one is recommending DAA as a TRT option its a "natural" booster. You mentioned simple chemistry, well, if you're into science, search on pubmed for the research on DAA. The research is there, the results are there. Maybe not for you but such is life, some supps don't work for everyone.

    Again, relax a little bit man no one is attacking you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Lets talk about Clomid for a second... First off, for most its illegal to use without an rx. Obtaining things like that from a research chem company is extremely tricky.

    - Valdez
    Thanks for mentioning this and bringing it up.
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    it's all just one biiiig science experiment we perform upon ourselves, isn't it

    edit
    oh, and I suppose if someone was looking for a test booster, I inferred that they have a problem with their current test levels. In which case, I would recommend the counsel of a doctor, not an online board, hence my recommendation to investigate in Clomid. I did not mention any sources nor condone it's illegal use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    it's all just one biiiig science experiment we perform upon ourselves, isn't it

    edit
    oh, and I suppose if someone was looking for a test booster, I inferred that they have a problem with their current test levels. In which case, I would recommend the counsel of a doctor, not an online board, hence my recommendation to investigate in Clomid. I did not mention any sources nor condone it's illegal use.
    inferring is dangerously close to assuming, lol....but the clarification is a nice touch!!!
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    Test boosters havent done much for me either, but I have natural high test.

    HGW tho -

    Random boners through out day
    Pumps
    Veins

    Def one of my all time fav supps!
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    og phytoserms and daa was my favorite experience with test boosters, a lot of ppl love ***odia which the new phytoserms has added to it

    also had success with testopro
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelV View Post
    Test boosters havent done much for me either, but I have natural high test.

    HGW tho -

    Random boners through out day
    Pumps
    Veins

    Def one of my all time fav supps!
    And what supp is HGW? What's its full name?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kateean2 View Post
    Bioforge V3 all time favourite followed by Triazole.
    sub this 1000%. strength gains on these better than on ostarine!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenhulk View Post
    And what supp is HGW? What's its full name?
    Horny Goat Weed. The active is called Icariin however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uubiduu View Post
    sub this 1000%. strength gains on these better than on ostarine!!
    Ostarine seemed to help with my recomp but not for giving that added bit of extra in training.
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    I've been under a rock with test boosters as of late, but I'm giving D-Test a run right now and I'm liking it. It's been abouta week and I know it takes 10-12 days for DAA to really get into the system from the logs I've read, but I have noticed an increase in libido already that is pretty significant and the ol' libido has been high to begin with so something is working.

    After this 4 week run I'm going to use Paragon by PNI which is a DAA based test booster with some extra goodies. I have also recently read good things about Perform Erase and Endosurge, but know very little about them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain13 View Post
    Horny Goat Weed. The active is called Icariin however.
    Yup, simple and effective. Gets the job done.. or gives you the go ahead to get the job done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    SNS DAA + Erase
    Purus Dpol + Erase
    Epharm Testforce + Erase

    The selling point with these is that they are the form used in the actual study.

    DAA + Erase = a good time for most!

    Other test boosters
    SNS Bulbine - very versatile dosing options and the bottle (depending on weight) lasts around two months.

    SNS ZMA

    Athletix Formula X - DAA
    " " - Division 1
    And so on there are tons of options!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    did someone say fadogia?
    I respond well to fadogia so I gravitate that direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    Funny because the wrath of the DAA fanboys was unleashed on me in another thread when I amounted to the same.
    But let's get back to Clomid for a second. Before recommending Testosterone Replacement Therapy, some doctors and/or endocrinologists (the well-informed, that is) prescribe Clomid in what's known as a "Clomid Challenge."
    As Clomid is a SERM, it's effects on E2, and particularly estradiol in men, can have a tremendous positive effect on testosterone. This is not bro science, but rather simple chemistry.
    To each their own on finding the dosage. I'll stick with fadogia. lol
    That's more pharmacology if anything. True, it can be wonderous for total test levels shooting above 1,000 after a few weeks but monitoring E2 becomes pretty important to the effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dtrain13 View Post
    Horny Goat Weed. The active is called Icariin however.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    Yup, simple and effective. Gets the job done.. or gives you the go ahead to get the job done.
    I bought it in pure powder form once (standardized to 40% icariin) and tested it for a while. First, it tastes disgusting (I understand this won't be a problem when using caps), second, it gave me diarrhea and a bit of a headache.

    How do you dose it?
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    i never had bloods done while on daa[at least not that i remember]...but i logged formasurge/endosurge after my doc pulled the plug on my test cyp after 5 years...test at start was around 80, when i was tested after my run of formasurge/endosurge it was 177.

    that may not seem like a dramatic increase, but it had a huge impact on how i felt...libido/energy level/motivation/strength-ect, all went way up, saw major improvement in workouts....

    libido wise, when i 1st tried i-force fadogia in all honesty i wasn't expecting much...it really exceeded my expectations.

    inhibit-p...cheap, effective.

    one day i will run a stack of formasurge/endosurge/fadogia/inhibit-p...
    BPS REP-DERMACRINE/ENDOSURGE....COMBUSTION/DCP 2.0
  34. Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i never had bloods done while on daa[at least not that i remember]...but i logged formasurge/endosurge after my doc pulled the plug on my test cyp after 5 years...test at start was around 80, when i was tested after my run of formasurge/endosurge it was 177.

    that may not seem like a dramatic increase, but it had a huge impact on how i felt...libido/energy level/motivation/strength-ect, all went way up, saw major improvement in workouts....

    libido wise, when i 1st tried i-force fadogia in all honesty i wasn't expecting much...it really exceeded my expectations.

    inhibit-p...cheap, effective.

    one day i will run a stack of formasurge/endosurge/fadogia/inhibit-p...
    Good to see your levels slowly climbing back after all that time on. I have started the inhibit P and I am noting a slight rise in libido, but I am recovering my own natural T production as well so it is hard to gauge. For the price you definitely can't go wrong.

    Your stack looks like a win, similar to what I am about run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    one day i will run a stack of formasurge/endosurge/fadogia/inhibit-p...
    That sounds like nothing but goody good news waiting to happen. Let us know when you're on this. I'd like to see how you're doing. I just started Formasurge about a month ago. Noticing some positive recomping and that's that I haven't been as well on my diet as I should be. Still, I'm thinking about buying another bottle when I'm done with it. Starting to dry out. Look fuller, despite having lost about 4-5lbs....(guessing it was water?)

    SWEET!
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrganicShadow View Post
    I respond well to fadogia so I gravitate that direction.


    To each their own on finding the dosage. I'll stick with fadogia. lol
    That's more pharmacology if anything. True, it can be wonderous for total test levels shooting above 1,000 after a few weeks but monitoring E2 becomes pretty important to the effect.

    -OS-Team AppNut
    BCS has Dominate V3 out now with Fadogia, Prolensis (Bulbine) and some other stuff. Looks interesting.

    SServing Size: 6 Capsules
    Amount Per Serving %DV
    Zinc Aspartate 30mg 100%
    Testos...terone Enhancement Blend 2560mg*

    Fadogia Agrestis P.E., Grape Seed Extract (95% OPC), N-Acetyl Cysteine, ProLensis (Bulbine Natalensis), Mucuna Pruriens (98% L-Dopa), Piperineerving Size: 6 Capsules
    Amount Per Serving %DV
    Zinc Aspartate 30mg 100%
    Testos...terone Enhancement Blend 2560mg*
    Fadogia Agrestis P.E., Grape Seed Extract (95% OPC), N-Acetyl Cysteine, ProLensis (Bulbine Natalensis), Mucuna Pruriens (98% L-Dopa), Piperine

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    All this test talk makes me want to go home and bust open a bottle of endosurge....how long would/does it take for it to start raising free test...waiting to grab some bulbine to go with it but im interested in giving the ES a whirl for a week or so, just to see how it goes alone then kickin in the bulbine say 10days in
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i never had bloods done while on daa[at least not that i remember]...but i logged formasurge/endosurge after my doc pulled the plug on my test cyp after 5 years...test at start was around 80, when i was tested after my run of formasurge/endosurge it was 177.

    that may not seem like a dramatic increase, but it had a huge impact on how i felt...libido/energy level/motivation/strength-ect, all went way up, saw major improvement in workouts....

    libido wise, when i 1st tried i-force fadogia in all honesty i wasn't expecting much...it really exceeded my expectations.

    inhibit-p...cheap, effective.

    one day i will run a stack of formasurge/endosurge/fadogia/inhibit-p...
    Damn you make a solid stack recommendation.

    I tried so far endosurge/daa/erase, endosurge/licogenix and endosurge/tongkat ali and always nice libido boost.

    DAA gives me runs so I'm done with that but endosurge really kicks in nicely for me especially if adding some estrogen controlling substance.

    Fadogia never tried but tempted but then again looking as well that member's review for Dopadex/Forskolin-95 ahh so many good stack recommendations and not enough time to try them all.

    In summary: everything that raises dopamin levels increase my libido much more than just raising testosterone and endosurge works on raising both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valdez View Post
    Come on bro you need to take it easy. There was no "wrath" of DAA fanboys that were unleashed upon you. I simply asked you not to say its trash. Then jiiggz asked about bloods.

    No one is recommending DAA as a TRT option its a "natural" booster. You mentioned simple chemistry, well, if you're into science, search on pubmed for the research on DAA. The research is there, the results are there. Maybe not for you but such is life, some supps don't work for everyone.

    Again, relax a little bit man no one is attacking you.

    - Valdez


    Have YOU done a "search on pubmed for the research on DAA?" When I did, all I found was studies on DAA & testosterone where the subjects were frogs, ducks, pigs, lizards, mice, rats, birds, hamsters, and monkeys. When I did my own human study on myself, my bloodwork showed extremely low test levels after being on DAA.
    But I understand you're a rep/lobbyist for SNS, a manufacturer or supplier of DAA. So I can see why you've taken offense to my fact-based opinion on one of your products.

    and the
    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    belongs here
  40. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Re: Best current test-booster?


    Oh God here we go... You're one of those guys huh... I've been nothing but helpful in my posts to you and simply asked you not to discredit a supplement based on your poor personal results. Like I've said a couple of different times it's unfortunate it didn't work for you, sorry man, better luck next time.

    Here ya go...

    http://www.rbej.com/content/7/1/120

    Link to serum levels

    http://www.rbej.com/content/7/1/120/table/T1

    Pubmed version

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2774316/

    Saying that my opinion doesn't matter based on my rep status is absurd. Your opinion on discrediting a supplement is useless - due to lack of research...

    Ciao,
    Valdez
    ~Olympus Labs DemiGod And Rep ~

    AnabolicMinds.com Site Rep
  

  
 

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