What are your Top 3 must have supplements

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    -EPA/DHA
    -Magnesium creatine chelate
    -Creatinol-O-Phosphate
    Im actually about to pick up some creatinol op today. What dose are you takeing and when? How long before you felt results?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Lol at "good deed". I stay pretty in the loop with this lifestyle. If you have studies I havent seen then please enlighten me of them.

    If you don't, then dont act as if you do. Simple enough.

    In fact here's a good example of what you are doing:

    You are trying to prove that leprechauns exist and say you have proof that they do. Someone asks you to show them the proof and you reply with "I worked hard to get this evidence find some on your own."

    Very good way to prove a point.
    Just one out of hundreds. If you did any digging at all you would realize you are way off. I would link but you must have 150 post, so for now I am going to give this written out to hopefully open your mind a little.

    .ergo-log.com/shilajit--fertility-testosterone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills

    Just one out of hundreds. If you did any digging at all you would realize you are way off. I would link but you must have 150 post, so for now I am going to give this written out to hopefully open your mind a little.

    .ergo-log.com/shilajit--fertility-testosterone.
    "Infertile men ages 30-45"

    Also not sure what shilajit has to do with anything at all....

    It isn't in prime and I was under the impression you had some groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in prime.

    Also that is not a study. That is a website trying to sell product. As it turns out the full text could hold entirely different information than just the bits that are helpful to the seller.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jstrong20 View Post
    Im actually about to pick up some creatinol op today. What dose are you takeing and when? How long before you felt results?
    2g pre workout on workout days, felt it in the first week haha.
    >SNS-Glycophase<
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    "Infertile men ages 30-45"

    Also not sure what shilajit has to do with anything at all....

    It isn't in prime and I was under the impression you had some groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in prime.

    Also that is not a study. That is a website trying to sell product. As it turns out the full text could hold entirely different information than just the bits that are helpful to the seller.
    Just because a site uses a study to sell the product does not mean it is not a valid study. The full text coincides with the way it is being used in this instance

    Shilajit has proven to raise t level in multiple studies, and I used that simply as one example for you.

    As to Prime, I do not know why you would be under that impression. If I had groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in Prime I would not have disagreed with you about the lack of evidence supporting it, which in turn charged you into informing me that the only worth while supplements with studies on them are Creatine and DAA.

    I replied that this was not so and I stand by that.
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    For those of you that actually believe half of these hyped products actually work to raise test, why not do a before and after run with labs to see if it actually worked. My bet would be that 95% would see nothing or the most minimal gains.

    We know that time proven basics like creatine, citrulline, and beta alanine work, but all these test products? haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills

    Just because a site uses a study to sell the product does not mean it is not a valid study. The full text coincides with the way it is being used in this instance

    Shilajit has proven to raise t level in multiple studies, and I used that simply as one example for you.

    As to Prime, I do not know why you would be under that impression. If I had groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in Prime I would not have disagreed with you about the lack of evidence supporting it, which in turn charged you into informing me that the only worth while supplements with studies on them are Creatine and DAA.

    I replied that this was not so and I stand by that.
    I didn't say the study was no good because a sales site is using it. I pointed out that the link you provided was not to any study and that the full text could be very different.

    Also note my comments about studies in young, active males in relation to the goals of bodybuilding and your rebuttal was a study on "infertile men ages 30-45."

    How does that relate to bodybuilders or athletes for any sort of performance enhancement?

    Thus proving my point that the majority of studies on supplement ingredients is not necessarily applicable to the majority of people that buy them as dietary supplements on this forum.
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    Protein
    Bcaas
    Nitrus Oxide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrChocoLate View Post
    Protein
    Bcaas
    Nitrus Oxide.
    You're a big fan of laughing gas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by domore

    You're a big fan of laughing gas?
    Saw that. Was just gonna let it go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Saw that. Was just gonna let it go.
    I'm just in a joking mood I'm just pulling his chain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I didn't say the study was no good because a sales site is using it. I pointed out that the link you provided was not to any study and that the full text could be very different.

    Also note my comments about studies in young, active males in relation to the goals of bodybuilding and your rebuttal was a study on "infertile men ages 30-45."

    How does that relate to bodybuilders or athletes for any sort of performance enhancement?

    Thus proving my point that the majority of studies on supplement ingredients is not necessarily applicable to the majority of people that buy them as dietary supplements on this forum.
    Please don't but words in my mouth. You were trying to prove a point to me about the "majority of studies"? That was never under contention in our discussion, of course this is the case. There are however many studies that document effectiveness for natural compounds that can and do translate to help in athletic performance.
    Are they going to create a steroid like effect, no but that is not what I thought we were discussing.
    Sense you seem to be so focused on this one study I will dole out another to you.
    In a placebo-controlled study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, a statistically significant increase in strength and arm circumference was achieved with an extract of Eurycoma longifolia. A 2008 study concluded that Eurycoma longifolia is capable of suppressing estrogens which are potent inhibitors of testosterone production.
    Thus your thinking that Creatine and DAA are the only natural compounds that have studies behind them is very far from the truth.
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    I still don't get why you guys continue to slap fight over "studies" and the marketing page for the supplement. The best and only way to know if it actually works is to get real life numbers for yourself. Everyone knows that herbals affect everyone differently, so if 10 guys had success, it doesn't mean it is going to do jack for you.
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    1. I always run either a test booster i.e. t911/ Form-x or a prohormone like PH19/M1d Black. I gotta keep that test high if I wanna grow!

    2. Protein is the building block of muscle so I'm always using a protein supp and amino supp... lipotropic and Bc-EAA

    3.creatine. It is one of the most scientifically studied supplements for increasing athletic performance so I make sure to use it pre and post training. LG Sciences Epic and Postal offer plenty of creatine right during the times that its most beneficial.
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    Nothing I say constitutes medical advice. Please check with your medical professional before starting any diet or exercise program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    Most are in vivo or in vitro or for the treating of diseases. Very few are on the populations that would use them for athletic performance and even fewer are for the purposes they are sold for in an athletic population.
    Quote Originally Posted by thills

    Not true their are tons of studies of test boosting compounds, non-waisting "muscle sparing", energy/strength, the list goes on.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    In athletic populations in an age group of 18-28 (most likely to use) with an emphasis on athletic performance?

    Please link them. I'm always willing to learn more.
    Never under contention huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by thills

    Please don't but words in my mouth. You were trying to prove a point to me about the "majority of studies"? That was never under contention in our discussion, of course this is the case. There are however many studies that document effectiveness for natural compounds that can and do translate to help in athletic performance.
    Are they going to create a steroid like effect, no but that is not what I thought we were discussing.
    Sense you seem to be so focused on this one study I will dole out another to you.
    In a placebo-controlled study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, a statistically significant increase in strength and arm circumference was achieved with an extract of Eurycoma longifolia. A 2008 study concluded that Eurycoma longifolia is capable of suppressing estrogens which are potent inhibitors of testosterone production.
    Thus your thinking that Creatine and DAA are the only natural compounds that have studies behind them is very far from the truth.
    I think you should leave now, before you make yourself look stupider than you are.
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    No the statement was not true in the sense that there are indeed many studies that are APPLICABLE to athletes. This does not mean that they are designed specifically with athletes in mind. What you fail to see is that as an athlete or bodybuilder you may benefit form a wide range of compounds depending on your situation, the majority of which would help the non-athlete as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeC View Post
    1. I always run either a test booster i.e. t911/ Form-x or a prohormone like PH19/M1d Black. I gotta keep that test high if I wanna grow!

    2. Protein is the building block of muscle so I'm always using a protein supp and amino supp... lipotropic and Bc-EAA

    3.creatine. It is one of the most scientifically studied supplements for increasing athletic performance so I make sure to use it pre and post training. LG Sciences Epic and Postal offer plenty of creatine right during the times that its most beneficial.
    Still getting an insider LG Sciences deal? I want in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills
    No the statement was not true in the sense that their are indeed many studies that are APPLICABLE to athletes. This does not mean that they are designed specifically with athletes in mind. What you fail to see is that as an athlete or bodybuilder you may benefit form a wide range of compounds depending on your situation, the majority of which would help the non-athlete as well.
    A study on 40 year old, infertile, inactive males is not really applicable to most athletes.

    Many of these studies don't take into account the hormonal response to proper diet and exercise so the rise seen in the average, older man may not be present in a younger athlete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    man may not be present in a younger athlete.
    But then again they may in potent extract or high doeses. Shilajit which is in Bioforge by the way is a great natural supplement which I have also taken alone to great results, "and no I am neither 40 or inactive, & certainly not infertile." My original point to you about the Prime is that I could not find any studies that indicate any of the ingredients in it to be helpful in elderly or animals. I admit I did not spend more than ten minutes researching it, so I am not saying they are not there.
    When I buy a product I research each single ingredient first and 6 times out of 10 you will find at least some kind of study supporting, at least to some extent what the product claims to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills

    But then again they may in potent extract or high doeses. Shilajit which is in Bioforge by the way is a great natural supplement which I have also taken alone to great results. My original point to you about the Prime is that I could not find any studies that indicate any of the ingredients in it to be helpful in elderly or animals. I admit I did not spend more than ten minutes researching it, so I am not saying they are not there.
    When I buy a product I research each single ingredient first and 6 times out of 10 you will find at least some kind of study supporting, at least to some extent what the product claims to do.
    I am not arguing the fact that there are studies. I am arguing the belief that nothing without studies works.

    The main ingredient in Anabeta has been shown to increase testosterone, the study was done after the release of Anabeta. By your reasoning Anabeta would have been worthless and ineffective, even though anecdotal evidence showed otherwise, not until the study was published does the product work.
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    Wink


    P.n.i pro mass Triboll reloaded. Creatine
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    P.n.i lean shake. P.n.i creatine.tribol reloaded
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I am not arguing the fact that there are studies. I am arguing the belief that nothing without studies works.

    The main ingredient in Anabeta has been shown to increase testosterone, the study was done after the release of Anabeta. By your reasoning Anabeta would have been worthless and ineffective, even though anecdotal evidence showed otherwise, not until the study was published does the product work.
    No I understand your point, and the expense of doing a study is high hence the problem with prescription drugs. I happen to think however that the amount of hype surrounding products like Prime "the ultimate muscle pill" are ultimately not only detrimental to diligent young truth seekers like yourself but to the company.
    Read the reviews on some of these products. How many times do you think the consumer will be fooled by slick claims before they decide not to trust that particular company.
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    BCAA's
    Beta Alanine
    ALCAR-Arg

    But its awfully hard to pick just 3.
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    I didnt have good results with prime. However I do love some of their other stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by thills

    No I understand your point, and the expense of doing a study is high hence the problem with prescription drugs. I happen to think however that the amount of hype surrounding products like Prime "the ultimate muscle pill" are ultimately not only detrimental to diligent young truth seekers like yourself but to the company.
    I mean read the reviews on some of these over hyped products. How many times do you think the consumer will be fooled by slick claims before they decide not to trust that particular company.
    I've used the vast majority of USPlabs products and I know that everyone will react differently to different compounds but seeing as they still produce it I am going to go ahead and assume I am not the only one that has had success with it.

    Sounds like you hate advertisement in general.
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    One has to take everything that every supplement company says (involved in BBing or sports in general) with a rather large grain of salt. Its basically a function of an over-saturated market with each company hoping to make the next big thing. In order to survive, they all must compete for attention from a crowd of muscle head wannabe's with ADHD. I'm not forgiving the companies their sins per se, but once you learn to read past the gloss and get a sense of what a product really is doing based on anecdotal assessments from trusted peers, the bitter pill goes down a bit smoother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    One has to take everything that every supplement company says (involved in BBing or sports in general) with a rather large grain of salt. Its basically a function of an over-saturated market with each company hoping to make the next big thing. In order to survive, they all must compete for attention from a crowd of muscle head wannabe's with ADHD. I'm not forgiving the companies their sins per se, but once you learn to read past the gloss and get a sense of what a product really is doing based on anecdotal assessments from trusted peers, the bitter pill goes down a bit smoother.
    Good Post!
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    Quote Originally Posted by domore View Post
    You're a big fan of laughing gas?
    I am.Not you.I like rush stacker's 2.
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