GDA, Insulin mim and repartitioner
- 10-16-2012, 08:51 AM
GDA, Insulin mim and repartitioner
I tried Slin Sane and I'm really happy. I'm very low on BF and it helps to add CARBO without gain fat.
I'm using Recompadrol (that I used in the past) and I like it also..
I want to try Need 2 slin and AP , but first I'd like to try Need2Slin.
what I need to understand is WHY Need 2 slin advertises an UNIQUE Glucose disposal action .
this is what I found from an old post:
" Another thing to keep in mind though, is that Need 2 Slin can potentially last a very long time, and it is truly unique in that it also stimulated glucose disposal through the cAMP pathway, which no other GDA or mimetic does. For this reason, I won't stray from Need 2 Slin....... "
so WHY "..NO other GDA or mimetic does.." ??
WHich is the ingredient that put "apart" Need2Slin to others? which cAMP patways if the ingredients are common on others GDA products?
Need to build Muscle says: " Need2 Slin commands insulin to do exactly what you want, pushing aand driving nutrients into muscle and away from fat!"
From another old post I read the same question I'd like to be answered:
" I have yet to see any convincing studies indicating the preferential shuttling and alleged disposal into muscle cells (glycogen) via increased glycogen storage capacity or otherwise verses simply cramming these carbs into adipocytes and out of the blood stream."
so Why need2Slin can say that the target of GLUT4 will be in Muscles and NOT on fat cells?
Sorry for so many question..
- 10-16-2012, 10:12 AM
The ingredient that they're referring to that increases cAMP is the forskolin.
To the second point... We've learned, in researching for Slin-Sane V2, that there is no selectivity in where nutrients are guided. There is some evidence that suggests that banaba can accomplish this action to a degree, but until we're convinced of that fact by clinical support, we should consider this a marketing falsity.HYBRID Performance Nutrition
Mike ~ R/D
- 10-16-2012, 10:32 AM
I tried many Gda/repartitioner and at now slinsane V1 is my preferred.
In Europe I can buy only V1 and I want to try the V2.
But before to to try it I'd do a full STOCK of at least 10 boxes of SlinSAne v1. . .
Now I see there is a good post in "supplements! covering many good questions and answers.
10-16-2012, 10:35 AM
Need2 makes all kinds of wild claims. They don't test their raws, something the owner has no problem admitting. I would think twice before you buy Need2Slin.
Have you tried SlinTensity? I'm half way through my first bottle and loving it.
10-16-2012, 10:45 AM
So some of the nutrient partitioners shuttle the nutrients out of the blood stream but we are not sure where they go. These types increase insulin sensitivity. Others force insulin spikes and insulin shuttles the nutrients into muscle but they decrease insulin sensitivity. I got this right?
10-16-2012, 10:50 AM
None force nutrients specifically into the muscle.
The primary purpose of these products is to activate a pancreatic (insulin) response to glucose in the blood stream (elevated due to nutrient intake) and to dispose of it (serum glucose is toxic).
In this action, nutrients are non-selectively shuttled to both fat and muscle (think of GLUT4)... This process itself, and not specific to one GDA over another, will serve to increase insulin sensitivity.
HYBRID Performance Nutrition
Mike ~ R/D
10-17-2012, 04:44 AM
so how does ala different? I love this topic. Doesn't ala blunt the release of insulin? If these shuttle to both muscle and fat, isn't this an endo like myself, worst nightmare?
IMO, igf is the best selective NP if one is willing to do a basic shot.
10-17-2012, 07:42 AM
As far as body type and how these impact you, there's no cause for immediate alarm unless you eat sh't (which you don't). Put it this way, when muscle trauma is induced, nutrients are predominantly shuttled to where they're needed; we can surmise that the majority are directed toward muscle to aid in repair, but the excess would have to settle elsewhere. Because GLUT4 originates in both adipose and muscle tissue, you can see what I mean by non-selectivity.
So, for however indiscreetly these products serve to aid in muscle growth, you're looking at the same impact on fat as well. Simply put, if you can get swole from GDA utilization, you may be able to get fatter, too.
HYBRID Performance Nutrition
Mike ~ R/D
10-26-2012, 10:27 AM
I re-UP this thread.
I'm not an expert but I like to know what I take and why. ..AND WHY the pill I take is good or not and what to expect.
So I read and read (many threads here in "supplements" too). I ask sorry for my bad english and i'll be LONG so probably I'll cut the what I want to say (and ask) in many different messages.
I have to say I'm always in good food and diet and always training and that I have enviable sub 10% BF (even less) ALL year around, because I like to stay shredded and ripped all year long. I'm 43 and in good health.
Nothing can be generalizated if we don't know the situation of the guy that is taking a GDA. A fatter, near diabete man is different than a healtly man.
I'll assume that we do considerations for healtly man with medium insulin sensitivity and that has wheight training 2 or three times per week.
We'd need to consider also the BF from he is starting and the goal (going better BF , cut, or bulk or recomp) AND the level of CHO's is usually using.
Ezplaining in big SIMPLE words:
1) The first and MAIN thing I'd like to manage is the strange things that ALL WE KNOW that there is NO evidence and study that prove that glucose (with use of GDA's) will go to muscle and not in fat cells. The Gda (glucose DISPOSAL agent) should help "clear" the sugar level on blood AND transport it to where we hope (muscles) or where we do not like (fat cells) .
It will clear the blood (like insulin does) and we can HOPE it direct to muscles.
BUT I repeat ALL WE (intelligent people) KNOW that there is NO GUARANTEE that the glucose removed from blood WILL go MORE in the muscle THAN in the fat cell only because the use of the GDA's.
2)BUT, there is also evidence that these kind of products (I like Slin-Sane and Recompadrol) helps many peoples to retatin muscles, lower body fat and that they ALLOW more carboydrates to eat without excess of damege to BF.
I am one of these. With the use of Recompadrol or Slin Sane (before meals with CHO's) I can literally eat 50-80g MORE(daily) than usual IN ADDITION TO THE DIET (so more carbs and about up to 300 kcal/day more than usual and ALL coming from CARBO).
With the use of the GDA's I feel even more ripped and shredded every morning and I never have that "bloated /water feeling" after a big carb/cheat meal.
Without GDA's I "pay" even 2,5kg of more weight (and watery skin) after a cheat week end.
With a GDA I never exceded the +0,5 kg that return back the next day and I feel harder, full and strong and better looking after a big carb/cheat meal, even with less water under skin.
SO 1) and 2) are real ineluctable truth, but 1) and 2) are one against each other.
1) = GDA can't works
2) = GDA works (and damn good for many).
SO the first answer to have and search and explain is from the question: "WHY they works if 1) is true?"
"Why GDA's works (for many) IF 1) is DAMN true? "
AS I said I read and re read in internet and in books (from my cousin -he's a doctor with many books UNREAD LOL-), about insulin and all related to hypoglycemia and related things.
So the next step on which I have no good answers is to define 3 way to call the GDA's:
-Glucose Disposal Agent
( Repartitioning Agent). This is between rounds because is more a marketing definition.
So we left with GDA and IM.
GDA: the GDA will clear the blood from excess of sugar level.
There is evidence that they works (we are always speaking of OTC products...) on lowering bloood sugar level, LIKE the INSULIN does.
IM: it acts like insulin.
And insulin (after a meal that raises glucose levels on it) is produced from pankreas to go in blood stream, and it lower sugar levels moving them to cells (gut, muscle, fat...) activating the glucose transporters (mainly we care about GLUT4). It's the Insulin that ACTIVATE the glucose transporters and it DOES when sugar levels are high and they (sugar levels) needs to be lowered and feed the cells.
Insuline is also for sure ANABOLIC. Anabolic in a double way (both fat and muscle). Insuline acts to direct "nutrient" where are needed and it will do in an anabolic way and never in a catabolic way. (not always is like this... but we can assume this as truth)
So we can say that GDA's can be a big way to say IM, because in general GDA means only that are good to "clear the blood from excess of sugar level".
SO we can concetrate on IM..... So HOW different and HOW similar are GDA(IM) to Insulin?
Is a GDA(IM) good to do the same work of the insulin (regardless the efficacy and the power of action), or it is only able to mimick its action lowering the glucose level on blood? Can the Gda(IM) activate the glucose trasporters?
At the end... can a GDA(IM) mimick (always regardless the efficacy and the power of action) 100% the insulin job?
I'll continue next time because one of my theory is related to the TIME on WHEN GDA(IM) or Insulin are Released.
The timo of release is one of the way 1) can survive with 2).
...to be continued.... but if you have som answer I'd like to read ...
10-26-2012, 10:54 AM
This is very true. However you can reduce the amount of certain nuclear receptors and body processes that increase fat mass. For exampleOriginally Posted by Smitty77
So less fat will e produced in theory.
10-26-2012, 10:56 AM
It increases AMPk which has a host of different effects in muscle and fat tissue.Originally Posted by criticalbench
Igf1 I will not talk about openly.
10-26-2012, 11:09 AM
Insulin mimicker: works via the pi3k pathway (insulin pathway) which activates glut 4 in muscle and fat tissue for the uptake of glucose. Pure mimetics IMO are best suites post workout. (agmAtine in high dose and very few select others vs ect)
GDA : these dispose of glucose via alpha amylase or a- glucosidase. Or carbohydrate blockers
The reason why these are used interchangeable is due to the effect GDA are often stimulating pi3k and ppar a. There fore they also stimulate uptake into cells. Just less. These are best taken any meals. ( I still like it post workout as most GDA don't block uptake of monosaccharides but block disaccharides or polysaccharides)
Hope this potentially helps people
10-26-2012, 01:31 PM
10-26-2012, 01:35 PM
I don't do post workout hakes. I do pre workout meals. More effective for me. Or I add a shake to my meal. But bcaas pre during and post sonim not worried bout quick protein uptakeOriginally Posted by domore
Not really a waste IMO. Eat more. May create an even more favorable environment due to surplus of calories adding to an anabolic environment
10-26-2012, 01:42 PM
10-26-2012, 01:50 PM
I take 4 caps recompadrol hen eat about 2000 cals in chicken and rice and maye a little corn beats and coconut oil
10-26-2012, 01:56 PM
10-26-2012, 03:02 PM
I personally don't use it but science says it may be greatOriginally Posted by domore
10-26-2012, 03:18 PM
10-27-2012, 06:57 AM
Slin Sane 2 is a fantastic GDA. Really allows you to get great sustaining energy from your carbs and great vascularity and dryness as well.
PES ALPHAMINE Log
10-27-2012, 08:21 AM
I agree. Trying out a few samples of v2 now.Originally Posted by Clemenza
10-27-2012, 03:34 PM
To any reps paying attention id love to sample any one of these type products never used one..hate that bloat feelin li had last night after my post workout meal at the local Mexican rest. Chips and a fajita salad still feelin it
10-27-2012, 03:59 PM
Looking to try a product of this type. I was going to go with Anabolic Pump. Anyone have a recomendation and why?
10-27-2012, 04:12 PM
Ill be interested in the responses too..this thread has.gotten my wanting.to try something out with my next purchase after im finsihed with alphamine lookin at adding a lil beef and keep the fat gains downOriginally Posted by boogyman
10-27-2012, 04:52 PM
Love AP. Can't go wrong with either of these twoOriginally Posted by boogyman
PES ALPHAMINE Log
10-27-2012, 05:33 PM
Which do you prefer, the new or OG formula?Originally Posted by Clemenza
10-27-2012, 08:53 PM
10-27-2012, 09:02 PM
You referring to AP?Originally Posted by boogyman
Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
10-27-2012, 09:06 PM
Nutraplanet's very own Na-R-ALA + SNS Agmatine 100g powder is IMO the most effective combo out there, and a great deal money-wise once you pay the upfront cost for the bulk powders.
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
10-27-2012, 09:21 PM
What dosage of each before carb meals would you recommend? Or how would you dose it?Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
10-27-2012, 09:34 PM
10-27-2012, 09:43 PM
10-27-2012, 09:44 PM
10-27-2012, 09:53 PM
10-27-2012, 10:09 PM
10-27-2012, 10:29 PM
10-27-2012, 10:49 PM
You the man, manOriginally Posted by mr.cooper69
10-27-2012, 11:10 PM
10-27-2012, 11:28 PM
10-28-2012, 08:06 AM
Always been slightly intrigued by pterostilbene but never really researched enough about dosage, timing, etc. When you guys talk about it which is the best product to look at? Biotivia's PteroMax?
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