GDA, Insulin mim and repartitioner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    You referring to AP?


    Yes. I did not even realize there where 2 versions until I went browsing on Nutraplanet. The formulas are completely different, and the new one is a few bucks cheaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by criticalbench

    On my list to try, i've been on an r-ala kick lately. Previously used recompadrol until i couldn't find it anymore, and anabolic pump.

    Mike
    Recompadrol is at the planet
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    They would theoretically work best ​together
    Quote Originally Posted by bolt10 View Post
    Always been slightly intrigued by pterostilbene but never really researched enough about dosage, timing, etc. When you guys talk about it which is the best product to look at? Biotivia's PteroMax?
    PteroMax is a nice combination product.

    How do you think Pterostilbene works transdermally? It would be neat to buy some in bulk from BAC and mix it with PA's R spray. (If the dosing worked correctly)
    Last edited by domore; 10-28-2012 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Caveat
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman

    Yes. I did not even realize there where 2 versions until I went browsing on Nutraplanet. The formulas are completely different, and the new one is a few bucks cheaper.

    "New" 60cap
    [B]Phellodendron[B] (Bark), Crape Mertle ([B]Lagerstroemia Speciosia[B])(Stem) (Extract)

    750 mg **

    "Old" 90cap
    P-Insulin Engineered Extract from

    [B]Phellodendron[B]

    Tannins Complex Engineered Extract from
    My phones messing up....edit
    [B]Lagerstroemia Speciosa[B]

    700 mg

    Active extracts in bold, notice anything

    EDIT: phones messing up, it's all bold. :-(
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    "New" 60cap
    [B]Phellodendron[B] (Bark), Crape Mertle ([B]Lagerstroemia Speciosia[B])(Stem) (Extract)

    750 mg **

    "Old" 90cap
    P-Insulin Engineered Extract from

    [B]Phellodendron[B]

    Tannins Complex Engineered Extract from
    My phones messing up....edit
    [B]Lagerstroemia Speciosa[B]

    700 mg

    Active extracts in bold, notice anything

    EDIT: phones messing up, it's all bold. :-(

    Ahh so the same, the new just has a little more active. The description I looked at did not have everything labeled that way and it looked like a completely different product. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    To clarify

    Insulin mimicker: works via the pi3k pathway (insulin pathway) which activates glut 4 in muscle and fat tissue for the uptake of glucose. Pure mimetics IMO are best suites post workout. (agmAtine in high dose and very few select others vs ect)

    GDA : these dispose of glucose via alpha amylase or a- glucosidase. Or carbohydrate blockers

    The reason why these are used interchangeable is due to the effect GDA are often stimulating pi3k and ppar a. There fore they also stimulate uptake into cells. Just less. These are best taken any meals. ( I still like it post workout as most GDA don't block uptake of monosaccharides but block disaccharides or polysaccharides)

    Hope this potentially helps people
    Thanks ...it helps, it make me think that I have to study more, this help but add at the same time CONFUSION .. LOL
    So in the Recompadrol (that I like so much), which compounds can be more related to be a GDA and wich one the IM?
    and the Agmatine (not in the complex) can be considered a IM?

    -Garcinia Cambogia (50% HCA)
    , Berberine HCI (98%),
    Salacia Reticulata Extract,
    Gymnema Sylvestre (75% Gymnemic Acids),
    Banaba Leaf (20% Corosolic Acid),
    Vanadyl Sulfate,
    Aminoguanidine
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    I have ingredients that act as both. Vs and salacia act as mimetic and GDA.
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    So ... why I can't see any GDA/insulin Mim/repartitioners (as Recompadrol,Slinsane, AP, P-slim ecc..) WITH White Bean extract??.
    This can be added if one of the mechanism of the GDA's is the partial Inhibition of alpha mailase... I'm wrong ? In addition it seems that ONLY the complex carbohydrates are affected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pectus View Post
    So ... why I can't see any GDA/insulin Mim/repartitioners (as Recompadrol,Slinsane, AP, P-slim ecc..) WITH White Bean extract??.
    This can be added if one of the mechanism of the GDA's is the partial Inhibition of alpha mailase... I'm wrong ? In addition it seems that ONLY the complex carbohydrates are affected.
    A. How can something dispose of blood glucose if its modality is endogenous enzyme inhibition?
    B. Numerous ingredients found in GDAs inhibit digestive enzymes. Virtually every popular GDA on the market has such an ingredient, or multiple.
    C. Of course only complex carbs are affected. Simple carbs are already in a digested form (no enzymes necessary) and ready for absorption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    A. How can something dispose of blood glucose if its modality is endogenous enzyme inhibition?
    B. Numerous ingredients found in GDAs inhibit digestive enzymes. Virtually every popular GDA on the market has such an ingredient, or multiple.
    C. Of course only complex carbs are affected. Simple carbs are already in a digested form (no enzymes necessary) and ready for absorption.
    I'm confused on what you say in A) and B). it seems you are saying (with A) that Is stupid to inhibit enzyme (I think you are referring to Alpha amilase) and with B) you are saying that many (if not all) GDA's HAS such kind of ingredients..
    Im confused on what you wanted to say. (i'm happy YOU are in this thread)

    Probably is only a language problem and I can't understand what you are saying (Im Italian)


    C ) OK .

    Then I add and I try to be concise (not my main quality LOL).
    Basically Id like to know WHY these Gda's products works so good on me,
    me that I'm mainly also a NON-responder on supplements.

    SO I ask again: WHY, IF there is NO scientific reason to say that they forces or prefer the muscle to feed,
    they works so well? and what is the insulin (like) action?.

    With these GDA's (fed or fasting in hypocaloric or Ipercaloric, trained or not trained with more carbs or less)
    I feel always FULL, ripped, dry, shredded and full of glycogen, with energy and without fat accumulation EVEN if I eat 50,60, 80 g
    of carbs more than usual and I'm over 200-300 Kcal more per day!

    This action is LIKE ALL nutrients goes REALLY ONLY to muscles!

    I do not understand if they act as synergic, agonist, antagonis to insulin. If they lower or raise the REAL insulin action, if
    they acts as substitute/complementary of insulin and if it desiderabele to have more or less (real insuline) AND WHEN.

    So if they acts like insulin (in a way), why NOT using straight INSULIN or wait that the endogenous one will appears after a rich glucidic meal?
    This question made me think that probably the key (or one of the keys) is that we USE GDA's BEFORE meal and that
    endogenous insuline appears ONLY when the meal is finished.

    It's like using an "insuline like thing" BEFORE meal make happens ONLY good things, AND having
    insulin AFTER the meal leads either to good things (expecailly if post training where we need insulin and glut4 are well
    positioned and traslocated from the inner muscle cell to outer membrane muscle cell) and bad things (expecially if at rest and
    in a caloric surplus where all glycogen stores are full yet).

    You can say: " Are you satisfied with the results you have with GDA's? Are you achieving the desired effect? GOOD, SHoot-UP and use it!"
    But I need to know the mechanism of cause-effect to full enjoy a supplement.
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    Sorry, I can't read that post lol. Titrate it down to a few key points and/or questions
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Sorry, I can't read that post lol. Titrate it down to a few key points and/or questions
    Yea. That was a bit crazy. Cliff notes.

    But by inhibiting glucose similar to acarbose. The way I see it put simply is... Creating poo
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    Sorry, I can't read that post lol. Titrate it down to a few key points and/or questions

    OK Mr Coopersixtynine... I split question...


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    A. How can something dispose of blood glucose if its modality is endogenous enzyme inhibition?
    B. Numerous ingredients found in GDAs inhibit digestive enzymes. Virtually every popular GDA on the market has such an ingredient, or multiple.
    C. Of course only complex carbs are affected. Simple carbs are already in a digested form (no enzymes necessary) and ready for absorption.
    I'm confused on what you say in A) and B). it seems you are saying (with A) that Is stupid to inhibit enzyme (I think you are referring to Alpha amilase) and with B) you are saying that many (if not all) GDA's HAS such kind of ingredients..
    Im confused on what you wanted to say. (i'm happy YOU are in this thread)

    Probably is only a language problem and I can't understand what you are saying (Im Italian)

    C ) OK .
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    Quote Originally Posted by pectus View Post
    OK Mr Coopersixtynine... I split question...




    I'm confused on what you say in A) and B). it seems you are saying (with A) that Is stupid to inhibit enzyme (I think you are referring to Alpha amilase) and with B) you are saying that many (if not all) GDA's HAS such kind of ingredients..
    Im confused on what you wanted to say. (i'm happy YOU are in this thread)

    Probably is only a language problem and I can't understand what you are saying (Im Italian)

    C ) OK .
    No, I do not mean that in a negative sense.

    You need to remember that most "GDAs" are plants with a variety of constituents. A great example is Banaba. Some constituents block enzymatic release; others do indeed reduce blood glucose. What I'm trying to show you is that "GDAs" have mixed activity because no single plant is composed of just one compound. So when you buy a GDA, you're usually buying more than just glucose disposal; you're also buying agents that reduce or delay (reduce in more extreme cases; merely delay at reasonable doses) glucose absorption. Either way, BOTH of these effects serve to allow for the true purpose of GDAs: reduction of insulin release for a given meal.

    Does that make sense? Thanks for your patience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    No, I do not mean that in a negative sense.

    You need to remember that most "GDAs" are plants with a variety of constituents. A great example is Banaba. Some constituents block enzymatic release; others do indeed reduce blood glucose. What I'm trying to show you is that "GDAs" have mixed activity because no single plant is composed of just one compound. So when you buy a GDA, you're usually buying more than just glucose disposal; you're also buying agents that reduce or delay (reduce in more extreme cases; merely delay at reasonable doses) glucose absorption. Either way, BOTH of these effects serve to allow for the true purpose of GDAs: reduction of insulin release for a given meal.

    Does that make sense? Thanks for your patience.
    Thanks to YOU to YOUR patience.
    I'll try to re-formulate the next questions i have posted in the big long post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water

    "New" 60cap
    Phellodendron (Bark), Crape Mertle (Lagerstroemia Speciosia)(Stem) (Extract)

    750 mg **

    "Old" 90cap
    P-Insulin Engineered Extract from

    Phellodendron

    Tannins Complex Engineered Extract from
    My phones messing up....edit
    Lagerstroemia Speciosa

    700 mg

    Active extracts in bold, notice anything

    EDIT: phones messing up, it's all bold. :-(
    Yeah... So what changed between the old and new bottle?
    Thought it was just count/size.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    Yeah... So what changed between the old and new bottle?
    Thought it was just count/size.
    More extract in the new one, per serving. Same product though.
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    OK , next question:
    " I do not understand if they act as synergic, agonist, antagonist to INSULIN. If they lower or raise the REAL insulin action.

    if they acts as substitute/complementary of insulin and if it desiderabele to have more or less (real insuline) AND WHEN.

    So if they acts like insulin (in a way), why NOT using straight INSULIN or wait that the endogenous one will appears after a rich glucidic meal?

    This question made me think that probably the key (or one of the keys) is that we USE GDA's BEFORE meal and that
    endogenous insuline appears ONLY when the meal is finished.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pectus View Post
    OK , next question:" I do not understand if they act as synergic, agonist, antagonist to INSULIN. If they lower or raise the REAL insulin action. if they acts as substitute/complementary of insulin and if it desiderabele to have more or less (real insuline) AND WHEN.So if they acts like insulin (in a way), why NOT using straight INSULIN or wait that the endogenous one will appears after a rich glucidic meal?This question made me think that probably the key (or one of the keys) is that we USE GDA's BEFORE meal and thatendogenous insuline appears ONLY when the meal is finished.
    None of the above, biochemically. They reduce insulin output because:a. they dispose of blood glucose in an insulin-independent fashion (GENERALLY, with few exceptions)b. they block carbs so less insulin is requiredYou use GDAs for health reasons, not body composition reasons. Excessive insulin output is associated with a TON of pathologies; conversely, low insulin levels seem to promote a healthy hormonal atmosphere and longevity. Insulin is a highly anabolic hormone though, so we don't want to kill it, but rather reduce spikes (similar to cortisol). And endogenous insulin is present during the meal as with the GDA-effects of the ingredients.
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    Hey guys,

    sorry for digging up this old thread but im still super confused about this whole GDA thing.

    So GDAs are supposed to shuttle carbs/glucose into the glycogen stores of our muscles and at the same time keep them away from the fat cells. Well thats at least what it says on the description of my bottle of AP...

    But then again i read that nutrients are non-selectively shuttled to both fat and muscle:

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
    Because GLUT4 originates in both adipose and muscle tissue, you can see what I mean by non-selectivity.

    So, for however indiscreetly these products serve to aid in muscle growth, you're looking at the same impact on fat as well. Simply put, if you can get swole from GDA utilization, you may be able to get fatter, too.
    (quote is from page 1 of this thread)

    Doesnt this mean GDAs are completely useless if youre cutting? Even counter-productive, since it will be easier for nutrients/carbs to go into fat cells...

    This is so confusing, since so u can find so many positive reviews of people who are using GDAs for cutting...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramount View Post
    Hey guys,

    sorry for digging up this old thread but im still super confused about this whole GDA thing.

    So GDAs are supposed to shuttle carbs/glucose into the glycogen stores of our muscles and at the same time keep them away from the fat cells. Well thats at least what it says on the description of my bottle of AP...

    But then again i read that nutrients are non-selectively shuttled to both fat and muscle:



    (quote is from page 1 of this thread)

    Doesnt this mean GDAs are completely useless if youre cutting? Even counter-productive, since it will be easier for nutrients/carbs to go into fat cells...

    This is so confusing, since so u can find so many positive reviews of people who are using GDAs for cutting...
    Please read, quite literally, the post above yours...
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    I did read it again now, but it leaves me as wise as before to be honest.

    This whole thing isnt easy if english isnt your first language

    So lets see if i got things right:

    1. GDAs are for health reasons only
    2. They cant be used for body recomp at all, especially not to block carbs from fat cells but shuttle them into muscles
    3. All the people who claim to gain lean mass with GDAs like AP or even claim to gain mass and lose fat at the same time are liars (or its placebo effect...)

    Please correct me if im wrong in any of these...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramount View Post
    I did read it again now, but it leaves me as wise as before to be honest.

    This whole thing isnt easy if english isnt your first language

    So lets see if i got things right:

    1. GDAs are for health reasons only
    2. They cant be used for body recomp at all, especially not to block carbs from fat cells but shuttle them into muscles
    3. All the people who claim to gain lean mass with GDAs like AP or even claim to gain mass and lose fat at the same time are liars (or its placebo effect...)

    Please correct me if im wrong in any of these...
    1. Incorrect. Insulin has a variety of feedback mechanisms in the body, such as blockade of HSL, that prevents fat loss. Reducing insulin will create a more lipolytic environment, even if the carbs are "shuttled" to all tissues.
    2. See above
    3. See above
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    Ok, i think i got it now, thank you

    Any GDA you would highly recommend if my main goal is cutting without worrying about carbs? (assuming my diet is on spot)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramount View Post
    Ok, i think i got it now, thank you

    Any GDA you would highly recommend if my main goal is cutting without worrying about carbs? (assuming my diet is on spot)
    Right here!! Glycophase for $23 and you also get a free 600g tub of Creatine mono, a free pill box and Agmatine samples
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramount View Post
    Ok, i think i got it now, thank you

    Any GDA you would highly recommend if my main goal is cutting without worrying about carbs? (assuming my diet is on spot)
    You could look into NForce by MAN sports. Definitely underated
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramount View Post
    Ok, i think i got it now, thank you

    Any GDA you would highly recommend if my main goal is cutting without worrying about carbs? (assuming my diet is on spot)
    Burn 24, recompadrol, glycophase, or AP
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    coming soon iForce GDA
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    Ok, i think ill try all of these and see which one works best for me.

    Thanks to everyone, especially to mr.cooper69!
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    Recompadrol.
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    It does the job of the insulin for you so your insulin will be more sensitive. That's about the only benefit I've seen.
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    I vote for Burn24. I'm not 100% on how GDAs work but just anecdotal-ly, I feel like Burn24 has helped me with better optimization of nutrients usage.
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    Coop do you think certain ingredients like corosolic acid can actually shuttle carbs to muscle instead of fat by translocating glut 4 in skeletal muscle?
    PES ALPHAMINE Log
    h ttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213082-pes-alphamine-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
    Coop do you think certain ingredients like corosolic acid can actually shuttle carbs to muscle instead of fat by translocating glut 4 in skeletal muscle?
    Nope. Typically, when you see only muscle mentioned, it's because they simply didn't analyze fat tissue
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    You could look into NForce by MAN sports. Definitely underated
    Definitely a ****ty product
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Nope. Typically, when you see only muscle mentioned, it's because they simply didn't analyze fat tissue
    So if youre looking to lose fat the only reasonable times to take GDAs are when the glycogen stores of your muscles are empty, right? i.e. in the morning and after your workout. Taking GDAs at other times will inevitable result in gaining some fat...?

    (Sorry if i still didnt get it but this is a very complex topic imo)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramount View Post
    So if youre looking to lose fat the only reasonable times to take GDAs are when the glycogen stores of your muscles are empty, right? i.e. in the morning and after your workout. Taking GDAs at other times will inevitable result in gaining some fat...?

    (Sorry if i still didnt get it but this is a very complex topic imo)
    Calories in calories out man. You will burn fat in the absence of sufficient caloric intake.
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    No. GDAs are reasonable at any time you ingest carbs
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    Right here!! Glycophase for $23 and you also get a free 600g tub of Creatine mono, a free pill box and Agmatine samples
    Serious Nutrition Solutions The Glycophase Bundle Stack (LIMITED TIME): Discount The Glycophase Bundle Stack Supplements
    Woah. This is a steal!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels: Arachidonic Acid made affordable
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    Yes. I did not even realize there where 2 versions until I went browsing on Nutraplanet. The formulas are completely different, and the new one is a few bucks cheaper.

    No they aren't, they are completely the same. The only difference is the bottle and amount of caps.
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