pros & cons of "pumps"? hemavol?

[dsohei]

hey guys- so i have some questions about pumps, and the definitions that may differ between people

so, why are pumps desirable? what health/performance benefits, if any, do pumps give you?
why might they not be desirable?

if someone is mainly looking for athletic/functional performance, are pumps something they may want?

this was brought on by reading threads about hemavol being a great pre-workout for energy, and also giving insane pumps? im not sure i understand because i thought having too many pumps decreases function, in that the muscles are too swollen to perform correctly. but i like the idea of a non-stim pre-workout that gives a lot of energy.
how could i get this non-stim energy without the debilitating pumps?

 

[boogyman]

Lower back pumps suck when doing deadlifts and such. I stopped taking any "pump" product on deadlift day, it was so bad on time I had to lay on the gym floor for 10 minutes, I couldn't even walk.

A pro would be the fact that for me anyhow, a good pump helps with that mind muscle connection. I find I get more out of some movements when I am getting a good pump. Especially upper back and shoulder work.

 

[ThunderHumper]

pump = mental orgasm. very powerful placebo, but just that. there really isnt any benefit to it

 

[AaronJP1]

Curious as to the feedback & responses.

 

[baldwanus]

While ingredients like agmatine and cit-mal are great for producing that "pump" feeling.............they also have a lot of evidence backing them as performance enhancers. can help with endurance, recovery.....agmatine can even effect mood, and a few other things


http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/agmatine-sulfate/ <<<, good quick read on agmatine.....for more info you could try looking through mr.cooper's posts, most of what i know about agmatine, ive learned from him

theres plenty of studies on cit-mal on pubmed as well

 

[mr.cooper69]

pump = mental orgasm. very powerful placebo, but just that. there really isnt any benefit to it

This statement could not be more inaccurate. The main active pump product in Hemavol (citrulline malate) has been proven effective for performance enhancement in several human trials.

 

[Torobestia]

hey guys- so i have some questions about pumps, and the definitions that may differ between people

so, why are pumps desirable? what health/performance benefits, if any, do pumps give you?
why might they not be desirable?

if someone is mainly looking for athletic/functional performance, are pumps something they may want?

this was brought on by reading threads about hemavol being a great pre-workout for energy, and also giving insane pumps? im not sure i understand because i thought having too many pumps decreases function, in that the muscles are too swollen to perform correctly. but i like the idea of a non-stim pre-workout that gives a lot of energy.
how could i get this non-stim energy without the debilitating pumps?

Completely anectodal, but I remember one time I had a pump so absolutely massive in my upper pecs, lats, and triceps from incline benching that I still to this day believe that I managed to get a rep even after I was certain I hit failure purely because the pump was strong enough to force the weight up off of itself. All I took was caffeine, though, for this effect. No "pump" products.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Completely anectodal, but I remember one time I had a pump so absolutely massive in my upper pecs, lats, and triceps from incline benching that I still to this day believe that I managed to get a rep even after I was certain I hit failure purely because the pump was strong enough to force the weight up off of itself. All I took was caffeine, though, for this effect. No "pump" products.

Caffeine is a strong vasodilator in muscle tissue during exercise.

 

[Torobestia]

Caffeine is a strong vasodilator in muscle tissue during exercise.

Yup. Sorry, I just meant to distinguish it from the batch of products often marketed as pump products. It's strange, but Agmatine(sp) and caffeine are the only things that have ever given me appreciable pumps that I could feel (as opposed to something like Ragnorok that makes my veins really pop out, but I just dont feel my muscles swelling). Haven't tried Creatine/BCAA Nitrates (and don't plan to!)

 

[mr.cooper69]

Yup. Sorry, I just meant to distinguish it from the batch of products often marketed as pump products. It's strange, but Agmatine(sp) and caffeine are the only things that have ever given me appreciable pumps that I could feel (as opposed to something like Ragnorok that makes my veins really pop out, but I just dont feel my muscles swelling). Haven't tried Creatine/BCAA Nitrates (and don't plan to!)

Ragnorak doesn't really have any ingredients that are dosed adequately to produce a pump, so this comes as no surprise. The improved vascularity was likely just a result of pushing yourself at a faster pace due to the other ingredients in ragnorak.

 

[jbryand101b]

Ragnorak doesn't really have any ingredients that are dosed adequately to produce a pump, so this comes as no surprise. The improved vascularity was likely just a result of pushing yourself at a faster pace due to the other ingredients in ragnorak.

But it taste great!

 

[OrganicShadow]

I have a love hate relationship with them for reasons described. When my arms, chest, back gets too pumped its difficult for me to fully peak out a motion. Now in some cases like the big lifts of squats, barbell rows, shrugs, bench press, etc this has little negative as I'm going for power but when more concentrated motions and stretching motions it can become a burden.

Check out N.O. Uptake - I'm a big fan of Hemavol (especially stacked with RPM) but NO Uptake has a very unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel.

 

[criticalbench]

Caffeine is a strong vasodilator in muscle tissue during exercise.

I know the word vasodilator and caffeine in the same sentence is throwing him for a serious loop!

lol

 

[mr.cooper69]

Check out N.O. Uptake - I'm a big fan of Hemavol (especially stacked with RPM) but NO Uptake has a very unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel.

Could you elaborate on this? Not sure I follow

 

[Diesel0022]

Could you elaborate on this? Not sure I follow

Its simple really, just follow the general rule of flux capacitation and when you reach 88 reps per minute of your previous 1RM with 100%ROM you will be sent back 30 years into the past.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I have a love hate relationship with them for reasons described. When my arms, chest, back gets too pumped its difficult for me to fully peak out a motion. Now in some cases like the big lifts of squats, barbell rows, shrugs, bench press, etc this has little negative as I'm going for power but when more concentrated motions and stretching motions it can become a burden.

Check out N.O. Uptake - I'm a big fan of Hemavol (especially stacked with RPM) but NO Uptake has a very unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel.

LOL - OP asks about HemaVol...company rep instead offers his new product.

 

[vicesoldier]

LOL - OP asks about HemaVol...company rep instead offers his new product.

LOL HemaVol FTW!!!!

 

[allnatural923]

LOL HemaVol FTW!!!!

this, as far as pumps and endurance go it's tough to beat hemavol. i never train without it

 

[mr.cooper69]

I was actually being serious with my post since it makes no sense, biologically speaking.

 

[criticalbench]

I was actually being serious with my post since it makes no sense, biologically speaking.

Bump!

 

[Torobestia]

I was actually being serious with my post since it makes no sense, biologically speaking.

Normally it doesn't. I've been aware of theobromine, the metabolite of caffeine you're probably alluding to, for a while though. Ever since I was young, I always got "strange" effects from caffeine compared to others, and when I looked into it I found out the primary effects I get are related to theobromine. I guess I just metabolize caffeine faster, and much more so working out (don't know if the last statement is true or not, just a guess).

 

[d33zLBoy]

Proprietary Garbage

I have a few points of contention with vasodilation products.

Firstly, they are marketed primarily for aesthetic purposes. There are very few that actually utilize the full potential of vasodilation with the addition of nutrients (macro/micro) which take advantage of the increased perfusion that occurs between capillaries and adjacent cells.

People tend to associate stimulation with positive outcomes; a few popular products on the market have some level of vasodilation (usually in the form of AAKG) and caffeine (or previously DMAA). Respectively to provide you with an aesthetic pump and to stimulate your system.


Secondly, proprietary blends are a joke guys. The researcher/formulation expert who conducted the initial studies, that supplement companies utilize to formulate their products from also provide data as to the level of compound necessary in a product to elicit the appropriate systemic response. For example: research suggests that 3 Grams of AAKG is the minimum necessary to provide the user with the level of vasodilation that will yield a result or observable difference. Proprietary blends mention numerous amounts of product in their formulation without disclosing the exact dosage of each component. A friend of mine is a biochemist and has access to a gas spectrometer, he lab tested 3 popular vasodilation products, they contained between 1-1.6grams of AAKG. Far less than recommended by research to provide the user with the response they are hoping and paying for. Which may be the reason your not experiencing a real pump effect?

If your not feeling the intended effect of the product you payed hard earned money for, you may wish to try a product that provides you with the label of TRUTH. Steer clear of proprietary blends, they are for making profit. Not all are bad, use your judgement; does it claim to contain 50 compounds and cost 40$, probably not effective or grossly underdosed.

Sorry for such a lengthy rant but I've been in the fitness and medical industry for over 25 years in many facets.
It is VERY VERY profitable, do your research before spending your cash.

If your looking for a very good quality vasoproduct, there is a new boutique-type company producing a product called Tsunami Strike.
I think it's one of the best I have come across as far as results, the company is new and trying to make a mark in the industry. I have used over 10 poplar products, this IMO is the best and my favorite.

I am in no way trolling other products, merely explaining my perspective as others have done for me in the past. If I were a younger person starting out, I wish I had more advice earlier on in my career to guide me in the most productive direction.

 

[JD261985]

Just used 10 tablets of hemavol( 1 serving) with 1 scoop of jacked pre workout yesterday. Omg my muscles were engorged for hours..even an hour after my workout my muscles were filled..honestly it was cool but a little uncomfortable lol

 

[baldwanus]

Normally it doesn't. I've been aware of theobromine, the metabolite of caffeine you're probably alluding to, for a while though. Ever since I was young, I always got "strange" effects from caffeine compared to others, and when I looked into it I found out the primary effects I get are related to theobromine. I guess I just metabolize caffeine faster, and much more so working out (don't know if the last statement is true or not, just a guess).

im pretty sure coop was talking about "unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel." that

 

[Torobestia]

im pretty sure coop was talking about "unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel." that

Oh! I missed that post. Hahaha! It sounds like a troll post. I can't make any sense out of it.

 

[baldwanus]

Oh! I missed that post. Hahaha! It sounds like a troll post. I can't make any sense out of it.

well it wouldnt make much sense for a company rep to troll his own product

 

[Torobestia]

well it wouldnt make much sense for a company rep to troll his own product

The explanation he gave just sounds absurd.

Reminds me of a guy from another forum asking whether using a pinky rotation counterclockwise to the hypotenuse of the horizon was the most optimal for performing reverse-grip one handed cable tricep kickbacks.

 

[VaughnTrue]

The explanation he gave just sounds absurd.

Reminds me of a guy from another forum asking whether using a pinky rotation counterclockwise to the hypotenuse of the horizon was the most optimal for performing reverse-grip one handed cable tricep kickbacks.

can you find me a square muffler bearing?

 

[willib]

loved hemavol from the first time i tried it

 

[criticalbench]

loved hemavol from the first time i tried it

Dont we all

 

[d33zLBoy]

Never tried Hemavol, like I stated earlier.. If you like it use it. My message was of beneficence, seems as though you lost focus of all the other words in my post and targeted with a false assumption because I'm new. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[d33zLBoy]

Not my fault your lack of understanding what I posted is misconstrued as absurd. Considering the pms I received otherwise...
"Hemavol good, you bad" As copy and pasted from my pm...bwahahaha

 

[zv3]

Nothing works as good as Hemavol to me for pumps, nothing has even came close. I put Hemavol in the elite class of supps that work, and the label transparency really helps. This is the first sup that induces pumps so fierce that it seems to limit range of motion at times.

I love this stuff so much that I actually try to "save" it so that I don't use it all up!

 

[rhino67jg]

Agreed!

 

[d33zLBoy]

Totally understand bro. Maybe I'll give it a try watermelon sounds enticing thanks for the feedback. Curious why the reviews are not favorable though?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Totally understand bro. Maybe I'll give it a try watermelon sounds enticing thanks for the feedback. Curious why the reviews are not favorable though?

what? HemaVol reviews are 9/10-10/10 on almost every forum.

I wonder what company you work for

 

[Diesel0022]

I'd just like to clarify even though our names share a similarity, it is not me.

Just needed to make sure you knew that VT

 

[OrganicShadow]

what? HemaVol reviews are 9/10-10/10 on almost every forum.

I wonder what company you work for

Never heard a bad review.

 

[bdcc]

I have a love hate relationship with them for reasons described. When my arms, chest, back gets too pumped its difficult for me to fully peak out a motion. Now in some cases like the big lifts of squats, barbell rows, shrugs, bench press, etc this has little negative as I'm going for power but when more concentrated motions and stretching motions it can become a burden.

Check out N.O. Uptake - I'm a big fan of Hemavol (especially stacked with RPM) but NO Uptake has a very unique pump to it that localizes to muscle tissue excluding the extracellular matrix that causes that overbearing "swollen" feel.

Bump to the question clarifying this. I do not understand it.

 

[baldwanus]

what? HemaVol reviews are 9/10-10/10 on almost every forum.

I wonder what company you work for

my guess would be Pipeline Nutrition

 

[Riskyb]

Tried Hemavol, got minimal pump. Tried Anabeta and Glycobol combined for a few days and those pumps were painful. Muscles felt very full

 

[bdcc]

I didn't get as much from Hemavol as I expected. I preferred MV2 on the whole and pumps were not drastically less than they were from Hemavol.

I told this to Vaughn and he got grumpy with me.

 

[VaughnTrue]

did you both take them on a completely empty stomach(no food for 2+ hours) with 20oz+ water?

 

[bdcc]

Honestly, it was so long ago I am not sure. I would have taken Hemavol with a lot of water due to the GMS. Not sure about timings though, it is more likely to be 90 minutes post food than 120 minutes.

MV2 was strong. My stimulant tolerance is really high but it gets me going, I bought a tub recently which is on it's way.

I was going to tell Dusty at BodyPower that you said he would hook me up but I thought he wouldn't believe me and if he asked you probably wouldn't remember saying it lol.

 

[criticalbench]

Honestly, it was so long ago I am not sure. I would have taken Hemavol with a lot of water due to the GMS. Not sure about timings though, it is more likely to be 90 minutes post food than 120 minutes.

MV2 was strong. My stimulant tolerance is really high but it gets me going, I bought a tub recently which is on it's way.

I was going to tell Dusty at BodyPower that you said he would hook me up but I thought he wouldn't believe me and if he asked you probably wouldn't remember saying it lol.

lmao.. try it!

 

[rockme]

did you both take them on a completely empty stomach(no food for 2+ hours) with 20oz+ water?

Is it better to take it this way? I've been getting the best pumps ever in my life by dosing as follows: 60 min preworkout 1/2 plain bagel, 1/2 cup raspberries, 1scoop whey iso; 45 min preworkout 5 g creating mono; 30 min preworkout hemavol, 20 min preworkout 1 g beta alanine, 100 mg caffeine. You got me thinking about trying on empty stomach...

 

[criticalbench]

Is it better to take it this way? I've been getting the best pumps ever in my life by dosing as follows: 60 min preworkout 1/2 plain bagel, 1/2 cup raspberries, 1scoop whey iso; 45 min preworkout 5 g creating mono; 30 min preworkout hemavol, 20 min preworkout 1 g beta alanine, 100 mg caffeine. You got me thinking about trying on empty stomach...

Everyone is diff. Some people can have food some cant. Im with you. Ive tried every protocol of hemavol out there. It works amazing with and without food. One of my friends says its 100x better on an empty stomach. You can try it for a day.. it wont kill ya!

Mike

 

[zv3]

Who takes pwo's with food? I don't even know of a pre that instructs you to take with food, 95% of them say "take on empty stomach".
Taken on an empty stomach, the ingredients go straight to work. Most say take 15-30 mins prior to exercise.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Honestly, it was so long ago I am not sure. I would have taken Hemavol with a lot of water due to the GMS. Not sure about timings though, it is more likely to be 90 minutes post food than 120 minutes.

MV2 was strong. My stimulant tolerance is really high but it gets me going, I bought a tub recently which is on it's way.

I was going to tell Dusty at BodyPower that you said he would hook me up but I thought he wouldn't believe me and if he asked you probably wouldn't remember saying it lol.

next time you see him, tell him I said it, and he'll do it. He's a great guy, and he'll double check with me if he's unsure, but i don't tell many to go up to him and specifically ask for something...so he'll know its legit

 

[criticalbench]

Who takes pwo's with food? I don't even know of a pre that instructs you to take with food, 95% of them say "take on empty stomach".
Taken on an empty stomach, the ingredients go straight to work. Most say take 15-30 mins prior to exercise.

Very true, but rarely do I have an empty stomach. I wake, drink my 1 scoop hemavol, eat 30 mins later, take another scoop 30-40 mins later, go to the gym.

Mike