Using Mucuna pruiens for a long time - AnabolicMinds.com

Using Mucuna pruiens for a long time

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    Using Mucuna pruiens for a long time


    I have been taking hghpro for a year or so nonstop and one of the ingredients is Mucuna pruiens, according to Ai sports , 99% levodopa. how many mgs l-dopa is in hghpro?,well we dont now its a proprietary blend, I am guessing a medium dose, and will never know

    I have done research on this before and cycled it before untill I asked Chris Aceto if its safe to do this about a year or so ago and he said it is perfectly fine to do this. I just went along with his word because he is knowledgeable in just about everything bodybuilding so I assumed he was correct on this-I recently asked him again and am waiting his answer

    Recently a guy who appears to be a very knowledgeable member in supplementation, Mr Cooper, mentioned that taking l-dopa for too long can mess up the brain.

    lets start off with my subjective experience. I feel perfectly fine

    lets get the facts stright. I have seen studies where it says l-dopa depletes dopamine causing certain side effects. I have read mucuna pruiens are not the same thing as levodopa. I have taken read the eGcg in hghpro balances l-dopa. (as does 5-htp which I did take[for fatloss])

    well to those who are interested or know what is your opinion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton
    I have been taking hghpro for a year or so nonstop and one of the ingredients is Mucuna pruiens, according to Ai sports , 99% levodopa. how many mgs l-dopa is in hghpro?,well we dont now its a proprietary blend, I am guessing a medium dose, and will never know

    I have done research on this before and cycled it before untill I asked Chris Aceto if its safe to do this about a year or so ago and he said it is perfectly fine to do this. I just went along with his word because he is knowledgeable in just about everything bodybuilding so I assumed he was correct on this-I recently asked him again and am waiting his answer

    Recently a guy who appears to be a very knowledgeable member in supplementation, Mr Cooper, mentioned that taking l-dopa for too long can mess up the brain.

    lets start off with my subjective experience. I feel perfectly fine

    lets get the facts stright. I have seen studies where it says l-dopa depletes dopamine causing certain side effects. I have read mucuna pruiens are not the same thing as levodopa. I have taken read the eGcg in hghpro balances l-dopa. (as does 5-htp which I did take[for fatloss])

    well to those who are interested or know what is your opinion?
    Great topic. I use ingredients mucuna pruiens occasionally to combat prolactin sides. I also cycle Active Xtreme from time-to-time. Wish I could add more, but what I have read is similar to what you've already stated. Higher doses of l-dopa are used to treat Parkinson's Disease. If you don't get much response here, you may want to post the question in Patrick Arnold's forum.
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    I just talked with Patrick about this and he mention he doesnt know. he mentioned the movie awakenings with Robert de niro and Robin Williams, that hopefully ill get a chance to watch tonight.

    I am going to er on the side of caution and stop taking it because I am not sure if it is harmful, even though I noticed zero sides. I might use the stuff on cycle and pct and take a couple months off the stuff cycling it. Thanks Mr Cooper for saying something
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    I just talked with Patrick about this and he mention he doesnt know. he mentioned the movie awakenings with Robert de niro and Robin Williams, that hopefully ill get a chance to watch tonight.

    I am going to er on the side of caution and stop taking it because I am not sure if it is harmful, even though I noticed zero sides. I might use the stuff on cycle and pct and take a couple months off the stuff cycling it. Thanks Mr Cooper for saying something
    You're going to the er without having side effects?? What are you nervous about??

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    Quote Originally Posted by vidapreta View Post
    You're going to the er without having side effects?? What are you nervous about??

    Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
    LOL er=air like airing on the side of caution and stopping to take it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    LOL er=air like airing on the side of caution and stopping to take it.
    Lmao...Ok I was thinking maybe you were a hypochondriac..lol

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    You have unquestionably depleted brain serotonin at this stage. Stop using HGHPro for at least 2 months and get on some 5HTP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You have unquestionably depleted brain serotonin at this stage. Stop using HGHPro for at least 2 months and get on some 5HTP.
    Will do.
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    er is supposed to be err with 2 r's
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    er is supposed to be err with 2 r's
    Let it go...to ERR is human
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    Will do.
    Also, eliminate any supplemental tyrosine if you haven't already
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Let it go...to ERR is human
    lol yeah wasn't trying to be a dick....just for "future reference", so people don't think he is being rushed the the ER
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    I'm just wondering why you would stop the supplemental tyrosine?
    im the sh!t, even your girlfriend can smell it
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    Quote Originally Posted by amateurfreak View Post
    I'm just wondering why you would stop the supplemental tyrosine?
    its a precursor to dopamine , just like l-dopa is

    there are two debates on both sides which I dont feel like writing out. I have been reading a lot on it. While my personal thoughts side effects/benefits are dose dependent. I am thinking hghpro has a lower dosage, like between 100-400mgs, maybe somewhere in between

    Look at the doses in the parkinsons study , which went up quite high and look at the doses in the rat studies, the rat studies are done on about 29 grams for a human. Some humans are taking upwards to ten grams and seem to be fine. just to be 100% not changing my brain chemistry for the worse; im cycling the l-dopa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amateurfreak View Post
    I'm just wondering why you would stop the supplemental tyrosine?
    mucuna pruiens and l-tyrosine or both dopamine precursors
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    Are there any side effects that appears That tell u you have taken l dopa for a little too long ?
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    I knew I was missing something right in front of me. Thanks for clarifying guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    its a precursor to dopamine , just like l-dopa is

    there are two debates on both sides which I dont feel like writing out. I have been reading a lot on it. While my personal thoughts side effects/benefits are dose dependent. I am thinking hghpro has a lower dosage, like between 100-400mgs, maybe somewhere in between

    Look at the doses in the parkinsons study , which went up quite high and look at the doses in the rat studies, the rat studies are done on about 29 grams for a human. Some humans are taking upwards to ten grams and seem to be fine. just to be 100% not changing my brain chemistry for the worse; im cycling the l-dopa.
    You cannot compare PD patients, who suffer from LOSS of presynaptic dopaminergic neurons, to someone who is healthy and is now producing an excess of dopamine from a normal cell count. Also, the effects are not only dose dependent but also TIME-dependent, hence why cycling of l-dopa is necessary
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    Great topic here guys.
    I always use Mucuna/L-Dopa right before bed at a maximum of 8weeks and I mostly use it of that deep sleep it gives me.
    If I take it in the morning I walk around like a zombie

    So what kind of cycles / dosing protocol do you recommend coop?
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    Cooper & Warbird:

    Whats the proper dosage if you were to add L Dopa individually to a 4-8 week natty run?

    or as part of a pct after lets say a 4 -8 week run of a PH?

    I would assume higher doses would he needed after an anabolic run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteConny View Post
    Great topic here guys.
    I always use Mucuna/L-Dopa right before bed at a maximum of 8weeks and I mostly use it of that deep sleep it gives me.
    If I take it in the morning I walk around like a zombie

    So what kind of cycles / dosing protocol do you recommend coop?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay888999 View Post
    Cooper & Warbird:

    Whats the proper dosage if you were to add L Dopa individually to a 4-8 week natty run?

    or as part of a pct after lets say a 4 -8 week run of a PH?

    I would assume higher doses would he needed after an anabolic run.
    2 months on, 1 month off is a good starting point. The effects on prolactin are pretty much immediate, so you can use it right at the start of PCT. If you co-supplement with 5HTP, you can probably go up to 3 months on l-dopa if the dose is low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    2 months on, 1 month off is a good starting point. The effects on prolactin are pretty much immediate, so you can use it right at the start of PCT. If you co-supplement with 5HTP, you can probably go up to 3 months on l-dopa if the dose is low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    LOL er=air like airing on the side of caution and stopping to take it.
    it's "err," short for "error." just to be clear.
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    If you're using the HGHpro to help stimulate growth hormone, you may want to try a some GABA and arginine right before bed. You could cycle this stack when you're off the other product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysiii
    If you're using the HGHpro to help stimulate growth hormone, you may want to try a some GABA and arginine right before bed. You could cycle this stack when you're off the other product.
    Why arginine and how many Mgs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrysiii View Post
    If you're using the HGHpro to help stimulate growth hormone, you may want to try a some GABA and arginine right before bed. You could cycle this stack when you're off the other product.
    Increasing GH release really isn't worth pursuing for body composition purposes, and you would need an absurd (20+g) dose of arginine to elicit such a response...a dose which is more likely to send you to the toilet than positively affect body composition. GABA is pretty sweet though and aids quite a bit in relaxation and sleep quality.
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    This applies to bulk 1-carboxy as well?

    I cycle this eod, could you do this indeffinitely?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    This applies to bulk 1-carboxy as well?

    I cycle this eod, could you do this indeffinitely?
    If I'm not mistaking 1-carboxy = L-Dopa
    So if I'm not totally in the woods the same dosing protocol as suggested in post #21 applies

    Edit: Have a look at this: Whats the difference between L-Dopa and 1-carboxy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You cannot compare PD patients, who suffer from LOSS of presynaptic dopaminergic neurons, to someone who is healthy and is now producing an excess of dopamine from a normal cell count. Also, the effects are not only dose dependent but also TIME-dependent, hence why cycling of l-dopa is necessary
    Let me first start by saying UUUGHHHH!!!! This is why I hate that mucuna is referred to as L-DOPA.

    OP, yes you should cycle off, but should be completely fine.

    Mucuna pruriens is NOT the same thing as somebody who is taking Levodopa and studies on one are not interchangeable with the other. Why and how are they different? Nobody seems to know and if you can find articles that says different, please point me in their direction. In the early 2000's there seemed to be some interest in Mucuna for Parkinson's, but nobody is really even looking at it anymore. I really do wish we could come up with a different term for it before somebody on the boards finds grandpa's medicine and starts using it with horrible results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Let me first start by saying UUUGHHHH!!!! This is why I hate that mucuna is referred to as L-DOPA.

    OP, yes you should cycle off, but should be completely fine.

    Mucuna pruriens is NOT the same thing as somebody who is taking Levodopa and studies on one are not interchangeable with the other. Why and how are they different? Nobody seems to know and if you can find articles that says different, please point me in their direction. In the early 2000's there seemed to be some interest in Mucuna for Parkinson's, but nobody is really even looking at it anymore. I really do wish we could come up with a different term for it before somebody on the boards finds grandpa's medicine and starts using it with horrible results.
    I believe this is due to the presence of mu opioids and other constituents of the plant. However, this specific extract (99%) is 99% levodopa. If we were talking about one of the more common, lower % extracts, it would be a different story entirely (hence why Inhibit-P is considered safe for longterm use). Why would researchers continue pursuing mucuna pruriens when levodopa can be readily synthesized from a pharmaceutical company? That's where the money, and the guaranteed quality, is at, after all.

    Here is a free text on a clinical trial finding mucuna pruriens as effective as L-dopa for PD symptom treatment: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1738871/. In fact, it was more effective. But what's the important message? It was standardized for 4.86% L-dopa. When you're essentially taking the pure compound as in the case of AI HGHPro (who knows if it's even a plant extract at a whopping 99% purity anyway), it is more than likely going to behave exactly as pure l-dopa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I believe this is due to the presence of mu opioids and other constituents of the plant. However, this specific extract (99%) is 99% levodopa. If we were talking about one of the more common, lower % extracts, it would be a different story entirely (hence why Inhibit-P is considered safe for longterm use). Why would researchers continue pursuing mucuna pruriens when levodopa can be readily synthesized from a pharmaceutical company? That's where the money, and the guaranteed quality, is at, after all.

    Here is a free text on a clinical trial finding mucuna pruriens as effective as L-dopa for PD treatment: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1738871/
    There is money in it because nobody else has come up with anything better, but the side effects completely suck. They give Carbidopa to help, but it doesn't do much. We give L-DOPA/Carbidopa to the rats and they still get horrible dyskinesias. L-DOPA is the key still, but we still need something better to give along side with it and they were hoping that was in mucuna at one point. The money would be figuring out exactly what is was That trial looked promising, but was 2004. I don't think I've even seen a poster in the last 2 years let alone an article.

    I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just honestly have a fear that one day somebody is going to post that they took Levodopa!
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    I usually take 2 of the NOW L-dopa (800mg mucuna/velvet bean) which equates to 120mg L-dopa, since its a standardized extract. I also usually take 800mg of 1-carboxy as well. That might be overkill though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    There is money in it because nobody else has come up with anything better, but the side effects completely suck. They give Carbidopa to help, but it doesn't do much. We give L-DOPA/Carbidopa to the rats and they still get horrible dyskinesias. L-DOPA is the key still, but we still need something better to give along side with it and they were hoping that was in mucuna at one point. The money would be figuring out exactly what is was That trial looked promising, but was 2004. I don't think I've even seen a poster in the last 2 years let alone an article.

    I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just honestly have a fear that one day somebody is going to post that they took Levodopa!
    Not hijacking at all, great post. So why do you think pursuit of mucuna was stopped? And I agree, it's all about combating:

    1. Loss of efficacy over time during the honeymoon period
    2. Minimizing side effects
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    I'm sorry............but I'm going to have to insist that you feller's take this conversation over to the supplement science section
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    I often wonder if higher doses of 1-carboxy and mucuna/l-dopa (plus green tea extract and maybe P-5-P) would work just as well for AAS cycles incorporating tren or deca, instead of having to use caber or prami.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Not hijacking at all, great post. So why do you think pursuit of mucuna was stopped? And I agree, it's all about combating:

    1. Loss of efficacy over time during the honeymoon period
    2. Minimizing side effects
    If I had to guess I would say that somebody higher up the ladder told them that they need to figure out why this plant was doing what it was doing before clinicals were going to go any further. The researchers make crap money (yay me lol), but they have to be funded and a company is going to want to fund something that they can make, not something that people can grow. I am very pro-pharm companies having seen behind the curtain and how much money they put into research, but at the end of the day, they are a business. Sometimes these projects just hit a dead end because the people in charge of funding (either private or government) see something shiny and want to do that instead.

    Pfizer and some brilliant, young, extremely handsome scientist (who doesn't get paid Pfizer-level money) should have a paper out by the end of the year...depending on reviewers.
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    It turns me on when Coop talks in scientific terms
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast
    It turns me on when Coop talks in scientific terms
    Aleksandar gets me off scientifically ....i guess its like women....everybody has a different type
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    great topic. The reason I decided not to take the drug Welbutrin was I was afraid of permanent dopamine shutdown. I just started Now brand mucuna as part of a libido stack and will be cycling it but not sure how. I can't seem to find doasges that work for people for libido? I'm taking 2 caps 3xday on empty stomach for a total of 360mg L-Dopa. I read somewhere that 1500mg is an upper limit for safety. Been on for three days along with longjack,maca,goji and tribulus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    2 months on, 1 month off is a good starting point. The effects on prolactin are pretty much immediate, so you can use it right at the start of PCT. If you co-supplement with 5HTP, you can probably go up to 3 months on l-dopa if the dose is low.
    If the effects on prolactin is immediate can u just take l dopa after intercourse and not everyday just to prevent the rise of prolactin right after sex
  

  
 

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