New Protein Bar From Next Nutrition: Another Label Claims Disaster?

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    New Protein Bar From Next Nutrition: Another Label Claims Disaster?


    http://www.uturnbar.com/

    They claim this one tastes like a milky way. I took the survey, and when I get my free bar I'll let you guys know. I wonder how poorly this one will do on lab assays....

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    ooo i want one!
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    This is the same company that makes the new Detour bars, which taste like a Snickers bar. 1 fast 400 did a test (see his website for the analysis) and nutritional claims were mostly confirmed (a little higher sugar and carb content than claimed but not outrageously so). So, this gives me a comfort level about this new bar.
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    Sheesh, thanks for the link. I sent in for a freebie.
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    Originally posted by GuyinLA
    This is the same company that makes the new Detour bars, which taste like a Snickers bar.
    Thus my Topic...
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    eh, **** all them little bars... getcha WD's ****, make em how you like, don't worry about label claims, and have yoself a simple, tasty delight tailored to exactly what you need
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    where is WD's ****?

    im looking for a container of 60 something bars for dirt cheap. until then, I will keep eating.
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    Originally posted by Biggin
    eh, **** all them little bars... getcha WD's ****, make em how you like, don't worry about label claims, and have yoself a simple, tasty delight tailored to exactly what you need
    Well said.
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    Originally posted by GuyinLA
    This is the same company that makes the new Detour bars, which taste like a Snickers bar. 1 fast 400 did a test (see his website for the analysis) and nutritional claims were mostly confirmed (a little higher sugar and carb content than claimed but not outrageously so). So, this gives me a comfort level about this new bar.
    1fast was not the only one that did tests on them... Nature's Best and Met-Rx did as well, and those came in way off label claims. Yeah, you could argue that those are competitor tests, but I still don't find them hard to believe. Here's why:

    When they first came out I decided to try one. Then they ran out. Then the second batch came in, so I tried another one. For one, the second batch didn't taste as good IMO. And, I noticed that the second batch had far less caramel and nuts than the first batch. The first batch had caramel and nuts going down at least 1/3 of the way down the bar. If you try one of the current ones you'll see that there is barely any caramel any more.

    All that said, I still prefer WD's recipe.
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    Originally posted by Supa Freek 420


    1fast was not the only one that did tests on them... Nature's Best and Met-Rx did as well, and those came in way off label claims. Yeah, you could argue that those are competitor tests, but I still don't find them hard to believe. Here's why:

    When they first came out I decided to try one. Then they ran out. Then the second batch came in, so I tried another one. For one, the second batch didn't taste as good IMO. And, I noticed that the second batch had far less caramel and nuts than the first batch. The first batch had caramel and nuts going down at least 1/3 of the way down the bar. If you try one of the current ones you'll see that there is barely any caramel any more.

    All that said, I still prefer WD's recipe.
    Your point is acknowledged. For me, I only consume protein bars as a snack mid-morning at work when I get hungry and a shake or food is inconvenient. I figure, eating a protein bar is way better than eating a candy bar or doughnut and if choosing wisely, a protein bar is actually relatively healthy. Detour bars to me are considerably tastier than any other bar I've tried. That said, I'm only concerned that the nutritional claims aren't way off. Since Next Proteins is a reputable company and 1 fast's test was favorable, I'm left with the impression that the label claims are reasonably accurate at this point. Perhaps the first batch might have been off, which can happen with a new product, but I don't think an established, ongoing company would continue to produce a product that didn't match nutirtional claims.
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    Originally posted by dez/null
    where is WD's ****?

    im looking for a container of 60 something bars for dirt cheap. until then, I will keep eating.
    You haven't seen that recipe yet dez??

    Orginally Posted by Wardog

    16 ounces Natural peanut butter
    8 tablespoons honey
    six scoops of Optimum Chocolate whey protein powder
    1 cup of uncooked oatmeal

    Mix the pb and honey in a bowl, microwave on full for 80 secs. Add the rest and mix together. Can add raisins/nuts etc to taste. Smooth into 13x9 tray and leave for 20 mins. Cut into 10 to 12 equal bars and wrap and store in fridge.

    This is a great tasting recipe that I modified from one I found on 'bolex

    Now here is the breakdown on a batch of the goodies:

    Protein: 254 grams
    Carbohydrates: 282 grams
    Fats: 236 grams
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    That bomb of carbs (a lot of fructose too) and fat.....can't be good.
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    Originally posted by bachovas
    That bomb of carbs (a lot of fructose too) and fat.....can't be good.
    You'd be surprised.
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    I made ones similar to this in the past, but with vanilla whey. I found I got sick of them quickly. But overall they were ok. Maybe I'll have to try them again with chocolate this time.
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    Originally posted by Sheesh
    You'd be surprised.
    I'm sure it tastes pretty good, I meant that carb-fat combination.
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    Originally posted by bachovas
    That bomb of carbs (a lot of fructose too) and fat.....can't be good.
    That was my impression too. Honey is as bad as table sugar. Far too many carbs too.
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    all you skeptics of the whey/pb/honey/oat bars, I don't much understand the problem... you don't sit and eat the whole ****ing mess at once... so what's the deal? divide them up however you like, add less honey (which by the way is not as 'bad' as table sugar, but either way what do you think they put in the majority of mrp bars? yeah that's right, a bunch of processed ****), more whey, less oatmeal, different flavors or spices to taste... I mean come on now, if you're going to pay two dollars per ****ty bar I guess that's your business... I'll do it myself, save money and have a better idea of exactly what I'm eating (ow)
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    A brief overview on why you shouldn't mix carbs and fat:
    From Timbo at the bb.com forums.
    Carbs stimulate insulin, which will cause the body to preferentially oxidize glucose for fuel. At the same time, insulin is a potent inhibitor of fatty acid oxidation and a potent stimulator of lipogenesis (i.e. fat storage).
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    always eat either carbs/protein, or fat/protein, but never together. that what you're saying?
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    Originally posted by bachovas
    A brief overview on why you shouldn't mix carbs and fat:
    Insulin is also a very anabolic hormone. As long as you're bulking or trying to gain weight, and your taxing your body in terms of physical demands, these would make a fine addition to your diet.
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    Consuming simple carbs (e.g. table sugar, honey, refined foods) causes a spike in insulin. The time you actually want a spike in insulin is right after a workout when you want to get insulin right to your muscles fast. That's why many advocate adding dextrose (a simple carb sugar) to your a post-workout whey protein shake (other sugars would do but for some reason dextrose is considered the best). In a sedentary state, insulin spikes are not desirable since this can ultimately lead to fat gain (and a host of other undesirable health consequences). Complex carbohydrates (e.g. fruits and vegetables) do not cause an insulin spike and are thus are the carbs of choice for all other times. Just read Barry Sears and you'll know all you need to know about carbs and the glycemic index.
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    Originally posted by GuyinLA
    Consuming simple carbs (e.g. table sugar, honey, refined foods) causes a spike in insulin. The time you actually want a spike in insulin is right after a workout when you want to get insulin right to your muscles fast. That's why many advocate adding dextrose (a simple carb sugar) to your a post-workout whey protein shake (other sugars would do but for some reason dextrose is considered the best). In a sedentary state, insulin spikes are not desirable since this can ultimately lead to fat gain (and a host of other undesirable health consequences). Complex carbohydrates (e.g. fruits and vegetables) do not cause an insulin spike and are thus are the carbs of choice for all other times. Just read Barry Sears and you'll know all you need to know about carbs and the glycemic index.
    Most of that is common knowledge, but good post nonetheless. The fructose in honey has a moderate to low GI, so an insulin spike really isn't an issue, plus you've got fat in those bars which will reduce the effects more....
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    You might one to check this out www.johnberardi.com. You'll find some great articles in there, he's a really knowledgeable guy. He also writes for T-Mag.

    Massive Eating Part 2 by JB

    ...One of the goals of eating to grow should be to maximize the muscle gain to fat gain ratio. Basically you want to pack on the most muscle with the least amount of fat gain. To do this you need to understand which meal combos to pursue and which to avoid. The foundations of my recommendations in this area are based on the avoidance of a nasty scenario. The worst case scenario for someone trying to pack on muscle while minimizing fat gain is to have high blood levels of carbs, fat, and insulin at the same time. This is nasty because chronic elevation of insulin can increase the rate of transport of fats and carbs into fat cells. Although initially insulin shuttles nutrients into muscle cells, chronic insulin elevation will cause the muscles to become insulin resistant and refuse to take up nutrients. The adipose tissues, however, are greedy little pieces of cellular machinery and continue to take up nutrients at a rapid rate. So if you always have high levels of blood fats and carbs in the presence of insulin (the kind your body makes, not the kind that comes in a syringe), your muscles will slow their uptake of nutrients and all that fat and carbs will feed the fat cells. Can you say Shamu?

    Before you make a rash decision and try to eliminate insulin, I've got to let you know that insulin is very anabolic. It's responsible for carb and amino acid delivery to the muscles for recovery and growth. So you need insulin, but you need to control it. And when you eat to promote insulin surges, you've got to be sure that you have the ideal profile of macronutrients in your blood to ensure that this insulin surge leads to muscle gain and not fat gain. This is where meal combinations come into play.

    Let's start with some meal combinations to avoid.

    <B>Avoid meals containing fats and carbs</B>

    Unfortunately, this is the typical meal of the Western diet. As a result, it's no wonder that obesity is an epidemic. Meals with a high carbohydrate content in combination with high-fat meals can actually promote a synergistic insulin release when compared to the two alone. High fat with high-carb meals represent the worst possible case scenario.

    Now, some people have argued that fat lowers the glycemic index of foods and should therefore be included in carb meals. But remember, the glycemic index only gives a measure of glucose response to a meal, not insulin response. And sometimes the glucose responses to a meal and the insulin responses to a meal aren't well correlated. So although you might be slowing the rate of glucose absorption into the blood by adding fat to your meals, you'll promote high blood levels of fats, carbs, and insulin. And that's a no-no!

    <B>Avoid meals high in carbs alone</B>

    Ironically, since the liver converts excess carbohydrates into fats, a very high carbohydrate meal can actually lead to a blood profile that looks like you just ate a high carb and high-fat meal! That's why high-carb diets don't work any better than ones rich in fats and carbs. High carb meals easily promote high blood levels of fats, carbs, and insulin, too.

    Okay, so now that we know which meal combinations are evil. Let's be proactive and talk about what meal combinations to concentrate on.

    <B>Eat meals containing protein and carbs (with minimal fat)</B>

    It's well known in the research world that eating carbs and protein together also creates a synergistic insulin release (much like the fat and carb meals above). But in this scenario, that insulin release is just what we want. By having a few meals per day that cause high blood levels of insulin, carbs, and amino acids (as long you don't have chronic high blood levels of insulin all day long), the body tends to become very anabolic, taking up all those carbs and amino acids into the muscle cells for protein and glycogen synthesis. And since there's no excess fat for the fat cells, fat gain is minimized.

    Obviously this combination is beneficial during the post-workout period, but in addition you might want one or two additional insulin spikes per day to promote anabolism during a mass phase. Again, as long as you aren't elevating insulin all day long, you won't become insulin resistant.

    At this point some may argue that although this scenario might not promote fat gain, those high insulin levels will prevent fat breakdown (lipolysis). And they're completely correct! But you have to understand that most meals (unless they contain only certain types of protein) will elevate insulin levels to the point that lipolysis is prevented. So you can't escape that unless you eat a ketogenic diet with only specific types of low insulin releasing proteins. But since ketogenic diets don't put on muscle mass and there are all sorts of problems associated with them, I think they should be avoided. Since muscle gain is the goal, two or three meals per day of anabolism are necessary to get bigger and that means protein plus carbs with minimal to no fat.

    <B>Eat meals containing protein and fat (with minimal carbs)</B>

    Although it's desirable to eat some meals each day that release lots of insulin, upregulate protein synthesis, and fill up carb stores, it's advisable to avoid too many such meals. I discussed the reasons for this above (reduced insulin sensitivity and prevention of fat burning), but also, since we all know that essential fatty acids are so important to health and favorable body composition, eating protein and carb meals all day will prevent the ingestion of healthy fats. And that's no good.

    In an attempt to balance out your two or three carb plus protein (minimal fat) meals each day, you should be eating an additional two to three meals consisting of protein and fat with minimal carbs. Taking in 30% of each major class of fatty acids (polyunsaturates, monounsaturates, saturates) is a good mass building tip when thinking about which fats to consume.

    Taking a step back, the purpose of protein plus fat meals is to provide energy and amino acids without causing large, lipolysis-preventing insulin spikes. In addition, after fatty meals that contain no carbs, the body oxidizes less carbs (more carbs are stored and retained in the muscle as glycogen) and burns more fat for energy. So basically you'll be burning fat for energy and storing carbs in the muscle after such meals.

    I hope that it's clear now that by properly combining meals, you can use the acute effects of food to your advantage. Eat protein plus fat during some meals and you may be burning fat during certain portions of the day. Eat protein plus carbs for some meals and you may be growing during other portions of the day. Although I know some will think this is blasphemy, this type of eating may actually help you get bigger while reducing your body fat during the same training phase.
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    Interesting Berardi article. Pretty much dovetails with my understanding of things. The only issue the article doesn't seem to address is the difference between simple and complex carbs. Simple carbs will cause a much greater insulin spike than complex carbs, which is what makes simple carbs desirable in the post work-out protein shake.
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    Read them both.

    Lean Eatin' - Part I
    Lean Eatin' - Part II

    An extract of Part II
    <B>A Carbohydrate Is Not A Carbohydrate</B>

    In this section, I'd like to demonstrate that not all carbohydrates were created equal. Specifically, I'll briefly discuss:

    1. The insulin index vs. the glycemic index
    2. The superiority of low-GI and II diets
    3. The difference between liquid carbohydrates

    While older carbohydrate classification schemes were centered on the notion of simple vs. complex carbohydrates (a structural classification), newer schemes focus more appropriately on the absorption profiles (glycemic index) and physiological effects (insulin index) of these carbohydrates (a functional classification).

    The Glycemic Index (GI) is a classification scheme based on the blood glucose rise after consuming a carbohydrate food. This measure is based on the absorption profile of the food and was originally considered an indirect, but adequate measure of the insulin response to food. The assumption was that the insulin rise would be proportional to the glucose rise. However, recent research has demonstrated a dissociation of the glycemic response and the insulin response to the food. Therefore the insulin index was created.

    The Insulin Index (II) is an index of the magnitude of insulin secretion as a result of food ingestion. Of course, this is the direct measure that the glycemic index could only approximate. Since insulin is a tricky hormone to manage, it's best to know exactly what's happening with this guy, especially if you have poor insulin sensitivity or poor carbohydrate tolerance.

    Studies by Holt et al (1996) and Ostman et al (2001) highlighted some of these differences between glycemia and insulinemia. Interestingly, while the glycemic and insulin indices of many foods were similar, some foods caused unpredicted responses. As shown in the following graph, foods like yogurt and milk had relatively low-glycemic indices, but very high insulin indices. White and brown rice, on the other hand, had high-glycemic indices, but low insulin indices. The point here is that if you want to effectively manage body composition, you should choose your carbohydrates based on both the glycemic and insulin indices.

    Unfortunately, there are only limited insulin data out there, leading us to continue to rely in some cases only on the glycemic index.

    More complete glycemic and insulin indices can be easily located by doing an Internet search on these two terms.

    So the next appropriate question would be, "What does the literature say about low GI and II diets vs. higher GI diets?" Well, here's a summary:
    Ludwig et al (2000) described the following list of benefits for eating a low GI diet:

    • Better nutrition (better micronutrient profile and more fiber)
    • Increased satiety
    • Decreased hunger
    • Lower subsequent energy intake (second meal effect)
    • Fat loss
    • Better fasted insulin and glucose


    In a study by Agus et al (2000), it was demonstrated that during a short, 6 day, low-calorie diet, a low-GI carb intake preserved metabolism and enhanced fat loss vs. a high-GI diet. The low GI group saw a 5% decline in metabolic rate and a 7.7lb weight loss while the high-GI group saw an 11% decline in metabolic rate and a 6.6lb weight loss. In these subjects, fasted glucose and insulin values were lower in the low-GI group, indicating better glucose and insulin sensitivity.

    Spieth et al (2000) and Ludwig et al (2000) showed that 4 months of low-GI eating was superior to 4 months of high-GI eating in overweight teens. The low-GI group lost 1.5 points on the BMI scale and 2.2 lbs while the high-GI group gained 2.88lbs and increased their BMI. In addition, these studies showed that a low GI meal reduced food intake during subsequent meals while the high GI meal lead to overeating.

    Finally, Pawlak et al (2001) showed that in rats, a low-GI diet led to decreased fasting insulin and glucose values, decreased fat mass, and decreased insulin and glucose values during a glucose tolerance test. Therefore, body comp as well as glucose and insulin sensitivity improved.
    The bottom line here is that when all else is equal, a diet containing mostly low-GI carbohydrates is superior to a high-GI diet for losing fat, preserving metabolic rate, and maintaining healthy insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance.

    Next, I'd like to illustrate the differences between popular liquid carbohydrates including maltodextrin, dextrose, fructose, and sucrose.
    Maltodextrin is a glucose polymer (a string of glucose units put together, similar to the protein peptide). It is therefore, by definition, a complex carbohydrate. However it's more complex nature does NOT slow digestion. Therefore, the GI and II remain high. Maltodextrin is the absolute best carbohydrate to consume during exercise for rapidly delivering blood glucose and for muscle glycogen recovery. It's also best for fluid uptake.

    Dextrose (glucose) is a simple carbohydrate unit (similar to the amino acid). While it's good for exercise situations (malto is better), you're probably better off adding some dextrose to your maltodextrin formula. A little bit of dextrose may enhance the already excellent fluid uptake that occurs with maltodextrin during exercise.

    Fructose is a simple carbohydrate unit, but it's structurally different from glucose. Due to its structure, it can possibly cause GI problems and/or decrease fluid uptake with exercise. Fructose, unlike other simple carbs, has to be "treated" in the liver and it reaches the muscle slowly.

    Finally, sucrose consists of glucose and fructose units bonded together. Therefore, upon digestion, you get glucose and fructose in the GI (and the benefits and consequences of each).

    Based on the three studies I reviewed (Blom et al 1987, ven Den Burgh et al 1996, Piehl et al 2000), it appears that dextrose is 72% faster than fructose for muscle glycogen resynthesis . As a result, at the end of 8 hours, muscle glycogen was 30% higher with dextrose ingestion. However, in another study, at the end of 4 hours, muscle glycogen was 15% higher with maltodextrin ingestion vs. dextrose. So dextrose kicks fructose's butt although malto beats up on dextrose.
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    All I have to say is stop fooling yourselves. Most easy to get bars are filled with cheap ingredients, and low quality proteins and other assorted nonos. I will never say the bars I make are good for cutting, but for bulking they cannot be beat.

    I have mine in the morning. I found NO difference in going with P/F and P/C meals versus tossing them all in together..in terms of fat versus muscle gain. Berardis stuff has been out about 2 years now. If it REALLY was the perfect diet..I think every BBer would be using it by now. However, as much as it has been all over the boards, it never really seemed to catch on anywhere except T-mag perhaps. Most who follow it..find it is just a hassle, and it makes very little difference.

    All the recipie I propose is..is caloric dense, high protein food supplementation. We all have enough calories to eat in the course of a day..why not make them tasty and easy to consume? As well as assuring yourself..that you have met your own lable claims..lol!
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    there is such a thing as overthinking..ie berardi..he def has his moments but i think hes too caught up in too many details
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    Fat, no matter how many carbs you intake, takes about 24 hours for your body to store and use, also in all the reference material I have it says that adipose tissue is insulin resistant, hence why many people with high BF percentages become typeII diabetic.

    Not denying Bernardi doesnt know his stuff but I just have some contradicting data.

    Oh yeah, I love WD's recipe - good stuff.
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    Ok, I'm looking at a Detour bar and this is the nutrient breakdown: 32 grams of protein, 21 grams of carbs, 9 grams of fat. The WD recipe above is 254 grams of protein, 282 grams of carbs and 236 grams of fat. Looking at it on a ratio basis, if one is attempting to follow a high protein/low carb diet, to me the Detour bar wins hands down. The WD recipe just doesn't seem to me to be consistent with a high protein/low carb/moderate fat diet while Detour bars are. This isn't intended as a flame. I would really appreciate if someone could explain how my reasoning is faulty.
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    cuz in wardog's recipe or any homemade, you know exactly what you putting in. detour bars have been under scrutiny (sp) about reaching label claims and even if so its accurate, the quality of the protein and carb source doesnt even come close to the oatmeal, natural pb, protein powder, raw honey (what i use) that you have in the homemade mix. AND CHEAPER> Sage
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    I never said it was moderate fat and low carb. You can use the detour bars all you want..and if their label is as off as has been stated in that one lab result..such is life.

    All this is is a high calorie supplement that is cheaper than any bars you can buy, and you know whats in it. As was stated, you dont eat the whole batch at once. It is up to you to modify it to fit your nutritional needs.
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    Berardi writing articles are great, but where are the references? You can say anything you want, but I've never research anywhere saying that the fat-carb combo is as evil as these people make it out to be....
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    Originally posted by GuyinLA
    Ok, I'm looking at a Detour bar and this is the nutrient breakdown: 32 grams of protein, 21 grams of carbs, 9 grams of fat. The WD recipe above is 254 grams of protein, 282 grams of carbs and 236 grams of fat. Looking at it on a ratio basis, if one is attempting to follow a high protein/low carb diet, to me the Detour bar wins hands down. The WD recipe just doesn't seem to me to be consistent with a high protein/low carb/moderate fat diet while Detour bars are. This isn't intended as a flame. I would really appreciate if someone could explain how my reasoning is faulty.
    ok genius the detour bar has both glycerine(crappy carbs) and gelatin(useless protein..friggin horse hooves) so feel free to eat it..i'll take wd recipe anyday
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    Originally posted by wojo


    ok genius the detour bar has both glycerine(crappy carbs) and gelatin(useless protein..friggin horse hooves) so feel free to eat it..i'll take wd recipe anyday
    It is clear to see why you chose the picture that you did. I have a very salient response, but not to a message like that.
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    hey my point is..did u even read the ingredients? the pic is a avatar..its a joke..after reading the detour bars ingredients im curious as to why u would even defend such a product in anyway shape or form
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    Originally posted by wojo
    hey my point is..did u even read the ingredients? the pic is a avatar..its a joke..after reading the detour bars ingredients im curious as to why u would even defend such a product in anyway shape or form
    I'm not really defending Detour bars. As I wrote in my earlier posts, protein bars are no substitute for shakes or food. But they are convenient, and for that reason I think they have their place. There are a good many bad protein bars on the market, which I define as having junk protein like collagen and way too much sugar (usually fructose). I think Detour is reasonably healthy.

    As to your earlier comment, I agree that the glycerine carbs are not healthy ones but the bar is fairly low in overall carbs relative to protein content, which is what I am looking for on a high protein/low carb diet. As for the gelatin, that is listed way down in the order of ingredients. As you know, by law the ingredients are listed in order of prevelance in the product. The first three ingredients are whey protein concentrate, hydrolyzed whey protein and PDUF whey protein. I'm no expert, but I think these are good protein sources. I suspect the gelatin may be present for texture purposes, but I don't know for sure. I also think it is good that part of the sweetening comes from Splenda. There is no fructose, though there is some sugar in the chocolate coating.

    As to the labeling claims, I earlier wrote that I happen to trust 1 fast, and the test he had done on Detour was favorable. I also wrote that even if Next Proteins had a problem with the first batch, that this is no fly-by-night company and wouldn't continue to produce a product that didn't live up to label claims. Now reasonable people can differ. That is just my analysis. I can't say for sure that the label claims are accurate but for now I have some comfort level. For that matter, is anyone certain of Optimum's whey protein label claims? (Actually, I consider Optimum very reputable and don't doubt the label claims, but I can't be sure. I think you have to buy from reputable companies and both Next Proteins and Optimum are in my opinion.)

    The one thing I will concur with is that WD's recipe is undoubtedly cheaper than Detour. But it still seams to me to be inconsistent with a high protein/low carb diet. And a lot of those carbs are coming from honey, which is a simple carbohydrate, which I try to avoid. In addition, there is an awful lot of fat, though mostly unsaturated. I suppose if you are bulking it might be fine. And certainly better than eating candy or other junk food.
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    ok well the easiest thing to do about wd recipe is eliminate the carbs ie remove them from the recipe or add less..well on second thought the gelatin could actually be present in the choc coating that had not occured to me at all..i personally dont see next being that reputable as they have always sold whey concentrate ,it mixes horribley has a bad taste..but thats my opinion..i didnt mean to come off as a ahole and i apologize..wardogs r perfect for thoses looking for a little more cals in there weekly intake imo also
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    Just about to make my first batch of the WD bars. To break down the percentage according to the information in this post at 254 grams of protein, 282 grams of carbs and 236 grams of fat it would be roughly 25/25/50 -p/c/f.
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    Just a random thought: the two culprits that cause me to have concern with WD's recipe are peanut butter and honey (obviously the oatmeal has good carbs and Optimum is excellent whey protein). If those ingredients could be reduced the ratio would come out better. I love natural peanut butter (I eat it right out of the jar as a treat, but not too much). However, it is extremely high in fat, so reducing the amount would help. Perhaps more whey protein could be added to replace the protein lost with less peanut butter. However, the biggest thing that concerns me is the honey. If Splenda (which you can use in baking) could replace at least part of the honey (if not all) that would do a lot for reducing the simple carb content. Of course, I realize the honey and peanut butter might have something to do with the texture of the bars, as well as the taste, so experimentation on the ingredient amounts would be necessary. Just a suggestion for those who make the bars.
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    well damn i didnt think they would send me my u-turn bar or it would come in 3 months from now, but i did this survey about 2 weeks ago and it came in today 3-21-03. it comes in a little cylinder that says U-Turn on it and a paper saying thanks for the survey. I was impressed that they gave me a whole protein bar and it came quite fast. The taste is great for a bar, not to dry, and taste very good. I like Mikly Ways, but this bar's taste did get old 2/3 into it. It tasted similar to a milky way but nothing great in comparison of taste between the&nbsp;two (not the&nbsp;way they make it out). The comparison of the 2 wasn't that great, but that taste still was. Just thought i'd share&nbsp;this&nbsp;with you guys real quick.&nbsp;
  

  
 

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