BCAA ratio

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Seems like a lot of people are reading the Modern BCAA write up.
    They're not the only ones who made the hype about mTOR and leucine effect on it.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I honestly think this idea of leucine only or higher leucine blends is overrated and full of hype.
    I know you feel that way after reading your back and forth with dinoiii back in the day. I personally think BCAAs/leucine/etc are mostly hype and premature extrapolations are being made from rat models with respect to actual body composition. But if I had to pick something, it would be leucine, pre-training, fasted
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  3. Alot of science behind the 8 to 1 ratio
    T2

  4. Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Alot of science behind the 8 to 1 ratio
    No, not really. But leucine, yes.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Alot of science behind the 8 to 1 ratio
    Where?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by bolt10 View Post
    Not sure how much it matters besides getting 0.045g-0.06g per kg of body weight of Leucine to maximize muscle protein synthesis. A lot of studies on BCAAs seem pretty dodgy to me unfortunately and personal experience seems to determine what people suggest.
    good to se ya, boltster.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I personally think BCAAs/leucine/etc are mostly hype and premature extrapolations are being made from rat models with respect to actual body composition. But if I had to pick something, it would be leucine, pre-training, fasted
    nice as always my friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    ZERO science behind the 8 to 1 ratio
    fixed for you.
    and the crowd that says 2:1:1 is the only ratio with tried and true studies behind it, is stretching the thin lines of truth as well.
    just because there are "studies" that have been done w/ 2:1:1 thru the yrs, does not make it the proven "best" or "optimal" route to go..

    experiment, and see if you can tell a difference yourself. (bet you cannot)
    then - go with your own preference.
    but: don't proclaim it to be the "be all/end all" of ratios please................

  7. If you eat a high protein diet there really is no need to supplement with extra leucine. It is the most abundant amino acid found in food.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    good to se ya, boltster.


    nice as always my friend.


    fixed for you.
    and the crowd that says 2:1:1 is the only ratio with tried and true studies behind it, is stretching the thin lines of truth as well.
    just because there are "studies" that have been done w/ 2:1:1 thru the yrs, does not make it the proven "best" or "optimal" route to go..

    experiment, and see if you can tell a difference yourself. (bet you cannot)
    then - go with your own preference.
    but: don't proclaim it to be the "be all/end all" of ratios please................
    yes, personally ive been on either monster amino or moden bcaas for the last 4 months and, both have a 8 to 1 ratio, i can guarantee positive results, to each their own...
    T2

  9. Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    yes, personally ive been on either monster amino or moden bcaas for the last 4 months and, both have a 8 to 1 ratio, i can guarantee positive results, to each their own...
    This is the exact opposite of science: anecdote.

    The key, as I'm sure Usp labs agrees, is leucine. I would only be concerned about isl/val plasma depletion if my diet was low in protein (which it never should be) or if megadosing BCAAs.

  10. Ummm, was that a point? ?
    T2

  11. Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Ummm, was that a point? ?
    You mentioned something about a lot of science and we're waiting
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Ummm, was that a point? ?
    Yes, that was what us AMers call "a point." Care to say where I misspoke?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone
    If you eat a high protein diet there really is no need to supplement with extra leucine. It is the most abundant amino acid found in food.
    I don't know if I necessarily agree with that.

    Leucine has been shown in numerous studies to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

    Even while I'm on a full all out bulk where my protein is at 300g+ per day, I personally still see a vast improvement in performance and recovery with the use of BCAAs. Its hard to train without out them.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    Ummm, was that a point? ?
    scientifically speaking, yes.
    if you look up the defintion of "scientific analysis", and then look up the definiton of "anecdotal hypothesis", you may see the exact point that cooper is making re. your following statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    yes, personally ive been on either monster amino or moden bcaas for the last 4 months and, both have a 8 to 1 ratio, i can guarantee positive results, to each their own...
    let's move on.



    Quote Originally Posted by Evan666 View Post
    Leucine has been shown in numerous studies to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

    Even while I'm on a full all out bulk where my protein is at 300g+ per day, I personally still see a vast improvement in performance and recovery with the use of BCAAs.
    totally agree with the point you make here. (even if your screen name is scary)
    to all the ppl who think a protein-rich diet is all that is needed, ponder:
    it is hard to train on a full stomach, no? and the act of digestion is not only a time consuming process for the body to break down and glean those bcaas, but also creates other issues (directing bloodflow to gut for digestive purposes, rather than muscle tissue..etc)..
    so - is there not obvious value to leucine/bcaas in free form, when you want to utilize them (without other nutrients clouding the mix), immediately?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    scientifically speaking, yes.
    if you look up the defintion of "scientific analysis", and then look up the definiton of "anecdotal hypothesis", you may see the exact point that cooper is making re. your following statement:


    let's move on.




    totally agree with the point you make here.
    to all the ppl who think a protein-rich diet is all that is needed, ponder:
    it is hard to train on a full stomach, no? and the act of digestion is not only a time consuming process for the body to break down and glean those bcaas, but also creates other issues (directing bloodflow to gut rather than muscle tissue, etc)..
    so - is there not obvious value to leucine/bcaas in free form, when you want to utilize them (without other nutrients clouding the mix), immediately?
    I see someone is no longer Confined to PP Logs . I like your train of thought !
    >SNS-Glycophase<
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  16. 8:1:1 for me....not because of any type of theory or hypothesis...but because I have been using BCAAs for 7 years straight and I can tell a noticeable difference on 8:1:1.

    For me, 8:1:1 is anabolic, whereas 2:1:1 and 4:1:1 is anti-catabolic

    Just because lower ratios have more research does not make them better...
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster
    8:1:1 for me....not because of any type of theory or hypothesis...but because I have been using BCAAs for 7 years straight and I can tell a noticeable difference on 8:1:1.

    For me, 8:1:1 is anabolic, whereas 2:1:1 and 4:1:1 is anti-catabolic

    Just because lower ratios have more research does not make them better...
    Interesting!
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by nattydisaster View Post
    8:1:1 for me....not because of any type of theory or hypothesis...but because I have been using BCAAs for 7 years straight and I can tell a noticeable difference on 8:1:1.

    For me, 8:1:1 is anabolic, whereas 2:1:1 and 4:1:1 is anti-catabolic

    Just because lower ratios have more research does not make them better...
    That is certainly possible, given that higher leucine content obviously promotes anabolism, whereas isoleucine and particularly valine are prone to gluconeogenesis, especially in the context of a high protein diet. This would have a protein-sparing, anti-catabolic effect.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    That is certainly possible, given that higher leucine content obviously promotes anabolism, whereas isoleucine and particularly valine are prone to gluconeogenesis, especially in the context of a high protein diet. This would have a protein-sparing, anti-catabolic effect.
    Wow... I had no idea isoleucine and valine turned to glucose.

    I need to give 8:1:1 ratio a shot.

  20. Agree with a lot of what's been posted here. 2:1:1 is the studied version and as a rule I generally like that. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the higher ratio Leucine wasn't partially because of the fact it was super cheap for a while and easily marketed as such, but who knows. I've seen absolutely zero difference in any ratio used or even really a difference from company to company on product.

    And part of me leans towards T-bone's thinking even though I still use BCAA's frequently. Whey protein and the typical BB diet is going to get a ton of them in. Personally, I would use a bunch of other supplements before them if money is an issue, but I know a lot of people who feel the exact opposite on this.

    Good discussion though and never something people can come to a consensus on.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Agree with a lot of what's been posted here. 2:1:1 is the studied version and as a rule I generally like that. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the higher ratio Leucine wasn't partially because of the fact it was super cheap for a while and easily marketed as such, but who knows. I've seen absolutely zero difference in any ratio used or even really a difference from company to company on product.

    And part of me leans towards T-bone's thinking even though I still use BCAA's frequently. Whey protein and the typical BB diet is going to get a ton of them in. Personally, I would use a bunch of other supplements before them if money is an issue, but I know a lot of people who feel the exact opposite on this.

    Good discussion though and never something people can come to a consensus on.
    What research on 2:1:1?

    At 2:1:1, if you "MEGA dose" as most do to increase the leucine content, your valine and isoleucine content increases dramatically.

    Our goal is supplying Leucine the star Amino without depleting the 2 other amino acids and contributing to glucose conversion while training.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    No need for extra leucine or to supplement with it. It is abundant in food already.
    Bolus Free form administration is much different than leucine from the protien digestion process.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    That is certainly possible, given that higher leucine content obviously promotes anabolism, whereas isoleucine and particularly valine are prone to gluconeogenesis, especially in the context of a high protein diet. This would have a protein-sparing, anti-catabolic effect.
    use during training and in between meal or if you are a vegetarian, never with a high protein meal.

  24. After throwing up a few preworkout protein shakes(thanks to leg day), i consider bcaa's(regardless of ratios) a staple for pre......no one likes the fool vomiting in the corner

  25. [QUOTE=nattydisaster;3535209]8:1:1 for me....not because of any type of theory or hypothesis...but because I have been using BCAAs for 7 years straight and I can tell a noticeable difference on 8:1:1.

    For me, 8:1:1 is anabolic, whereas 2:1:1 and 4:1:1 is anti-catabolic

    Just because lower ratios have more research does not make them better...[/QUOTE

    the leucine research trumps any 2:1:1 for our goals in the gym.

    You are correct. Research is there for us to begin formulating a strategy, never is it absolute, but with time and experience, you find what is best for you.
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