Supplement Advice: Too much or not enough?
- 07-25-2012, 07:50 PM
Supplement Advice: Too much or not enough?
Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.
I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian
What I am taking:
Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw - 750mg x 2
- 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until itís gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
- 250mg x 2
- 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
- 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day
Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.
Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.
My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.
- 07-25-2012, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Orion17
The best advice as far as supplementing at this stage (assuming diet is in check) is to keep it simple. Protein, creatine, maybe preworkouts. You can use the DAA just be sure to cycle it and the OEP is a good product. But most of that is unnecessary dollars spent!
07-25-2012, 10:53 PM
07-25-2012, 11:05 PM
Dang boy!Originally Posted by Orion17
Finish what u got and then go to basics. Protein, oat meal, multi, fish oil.
I like the daa, erase, toco8
But those are not staples.
Good luck. Inner city NY?
07-25-2012, 11:26 PM
I hear you on cycling the DAA, my understanding is that I should only go up to 8 weeks? I am loving the OEP... It's insanely good.
Which preworkouts would you recommend?
07-25-2012, 11:28 PM
07-25-2012, 11:33 PM
No I am not in NY, although I loved living there, I am teaching on the other coast, in Oakland.
07-26-2012, 12:09 AM
Thats what i mean by preferred choice take it with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions lol
07-26-2012, 02:10 AM
The number one thing I would get rid of above all else is that godamn poison they call propecia. It is by far the worst drug I have ever taken, even if some of the other things you are taking possibly counteract the sides. I advise any one I hear taking it to get off unless absolutely needed as in your doctor will shoot you if you come off. It can cause gyno, impotence, hinder your gains( dht is needed for both fat loss and muscle building, and just generally wreak havoc on your hormone profile. I took it for a month and hated it. Aside from that nothing your taking is dangerous, even the bupropion is safe in comparison to the propecia. Just my 2 cents
07-26-2012, 02:23 AM
I have concerns about ephedra... I realize that DMAA has issues too, but I just stocked up on OEP. And, I am looking into your other recommendations too. As for Fish Oil, I am looking for a vegetarian equivalent. Have you heard of anything that might be a good vegetarian substitute? I am looking at the "Total EFA by Health from the Sun."
07-26-2012, 02:33 AM
07-26-2012, 02:53 AM
i feel you though I wouldnt want to lose my hair either so i could see why one would take propecia even if it turns you into a woman lol
07-26-2012, 04:23 AM
Hair thing is totally understandable man, I just loathe that drug. Don't despair however, there are methods to stem hair loss, albeit a bit more complicated. My regimen consists of toco-8 which is actually effective believe it or not, topical spiro shampoo and nizoral shampoo, as well as rogaine. Is it an annoying ritual, yes very much so, but it has been effective in stemming pretty rapid shedding at some points. Thing is with or without propecia or rogaine, those prone to it will eventually lose their hair, no question, these drugs simply delay what is sadly inevitable. My suggestion, coming from a guy fighting the same battle is to drop the propecia, continue the test boosting supps, get blood work to determine the effects of the propecia, try my regimen and look at other alternatives of course and save up for a transplant. Transplant is actually the best bet pit of all these things although the most expensiveOriginally Posted by Orion17
07-26-2012, 11:02 AM
07-26-2012, 12:10 PM
100% correct....propecia is poison and spiro /azelaic acid/rogaine/nizoral is the way to go despite the PITA of topical application .....for prevention at least, which is where i am at...Originally Posted by bigbb123
07-26-2012, 10:50 PM
Hey, I have heard good things about TOCO-8; but the study that showed a decrease in shedding was based on a different form of Tocomin. I just started with the TOCO-8; I'll keep you posted on any changes - good or bad.Originally Posted by murk01
07-27-2012, 03:20 AM
Hey, thanks for the advice. I have ordered 10% azelaic acid. Should I have gone for the 20%? Also I ordered Regenepure instead of Nizoral. I have the minoxidil, but I have heard mixed reviews on spiro. Have you noticed it makes/made a difference?Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6
07-27-2012, 11:00 AM
07-27-2012, 01:07 PM
Blue should stay
Blue BOLD are staples and you only these for about a month of 2 and then add back in the rest of the blue ONE AT A TIME so you can gauge each their effects and compare them.
Get your diet and training in order and after 1-3 months of proper diet and training, you add erase and OEP etc back in.
Things you should consider:
-A multi vit
-DCP/Slin Sane V1/V2(these 2 are in the same class as the blue above and should be added in 1 at a time after a few months of good diet and training to see their effects).
I removed the hairloss products just because hairloss is going to happen no point fighting it
07-27-2012, 01:10 PM
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
07-27-2012, 01:42 PM
is unless you use all-the-above supplements from a same and reputable company that's been FDA tested for purity(which hardly happens), etc. I wouldn't believe the labels... and in my mind, I think like this now "I'm better off taking just the basics... daily Whey protein and perhaps Creatine Mono., BCAA, 1000mg of EPA/DHA, etc.... because all the other goodies look great on paper.. but are more likely under-dosed, not as described(pure) as you would think, could actually do you more harm..containing traces of bacteria, etc.." I dropped most all my supplements
I used to take and found a online calorie counter, e.g. crono-meter, and bought a weigh scale to weigh out my foods. Over-time I figured out a good healthy diet thru trial and error for weight-loss and muscle gains. I used to have endless bottles of supplements....over 200 bottles of junk that all seemed to address my needs...but later I figured it was just an addiction. MAYBE some worked ..but you never know WHATS working or helping your needs when your taking on so much stuff.. Only things I take besides an almost perfect diet now is a good Whey powder, BCAA, Glutamine, Creatine, EPA/DHA, ALA, ALCAR, Carnosine, CoQ10(ubiquinol), Acai, Trans-Reverstrol, Royal-Jelly(forget why I use this), Vit-E, Selenium, Red Panax Ginseng, Beta-Alanine, Citrulline Malate and once in a while Agmatine(sometimes it gives me a headache) .. but I just keep it simple now.. and focus more on diet, its the most crucial and you'll drop to 9-11% fat overtime and gain some good muscle.
DAA is fun to cycle. MACA and (Z)MA are supposedly good for keeping estrogen lower..ymmv.. For some reason reason when I take 5g MACA
it does seem to balance out hormones(in a good way) ... and lots the other stuff ur taking looks good too.. but keep in mind..if there all from
different companies, chances are they could contain some nasty bacteria and do more harm then good.. so I try to just take "what I think is necessary--in my head" yeah I'm nuts ..hahha lol .. Oh Tribulus I stopped.. found it gives me gyno.... but Erase Pro is great for combating that..
Crap, my reply post is all messed up ... lol..but one last thing.. "everything *seems* to work, until it doesn't" .. I think this is where
cycling off/on certain supplements becomes a great idea..body loves to up/down regulate back to homeostasis so I think even then.. its best sometimes to Not even take supplements...but I do haha .. Good luck
07-27-2012, 07:18 PM
Hey thanks for the advice! The Super Nutrition energy packs are my multivitamin; they are amazing. But, just so I am clear... You recommend removing everything but the basics (bolded blue) now and then add in one thing at a time? But, won't the OEP, DAA, and Erase Pro help/enhance results now?Originally Posted by ToNNNNyT
07-27-2012, 07:25 PM
Hey, I've been a non-judgemental-vegetarian since 1996. I feel better physically and my take is... "If I can live my life without harming an animal, then... Why not?" I still consume eggs and semi-solid dairy (After being vegan for a while, liquid dairy tastes horrible, but I was born in Wisconsin, so cheese is definitely a part of my life.)Originally Posted by JudoJosh
Anyway, to each their own. Everyone around me eats meat, more for them. Right?
07-27-2012, 07:32 PM
Hey, thanks for your thoughts on and experience with supplements. I am planning on cycling the majority of what I have begun taking.Originally Posted by aLinux
I am wondering which BCAAs you would recommend - brand name, amount?
07-27-2012, 08:01 PM
07-27-2012, 08:20 PM
07-27-2012, 08:32 PM
07-27-2012, 09:10 PM
maybe supplements are great for some people (i would assume so after reading reviews around here), but personally i have never gotten REAL results that i felt were 'worth the money' from any supplement at all. like many others have said, just stick to the basics. for me, the basics is just whey to supplement for those extra grams of protein i cant get through diet, as ive never responded in any noticeable or significant way to anything whether its creatine, agmatine, arginine, beta-alanine, etc (and by that i mean ive gone months with no supplements at all and others with nice stacks, and recorded about the same amount of weight/reps/weight gain, etc during the same time frame)... but hey, everyones different, so maybe you'll have luck.
but just so this post is completely pointless, are you taking the astaxanthin 12mg because your pills are 12mg? based on what ive read, i really wouldnt go above 4mg, but make sure that its all natural astaxanthin. people have reported somewhat serious side effects when taking certain types, and although they say you can take up to 12mg, ive heard nutritionists recommend not going past 4, as it's still somewhat of a new supplement. ive got a bottle of 4mg caps, but after reading some of the reviews ive decided to hold of for a little while until a little more is known on it, haha. but anyway, just look into it sometime and decide for yourself.
07-27-2012, 09:37 PM
That was my point,if your taking ABCD supps ontop of your staples how are you going to know who is doing what.Its never a good idea to run aload of stuff though it is tempting too in order to get faster results but you gotta get the basics down first then build from there
07-28-2012, 02:07 AM
Not at all... I am totally cool with your question. I'm asking about supplements and diet is a huge part of reaching my goals. So, no worries, no offense assumed or taken.Originally Posted by JudoJosh
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