Supplement Advice: Too much or not enough?

[Orion17]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

 

[Jim2542]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

Holy Jesus! You made of money bro??

The best advice as far as supplementing at this stage (assuming diet is in check) is to keep it simple. Protein, creatine, maybe preworkouts. You can use the DAA just be sure to cycle it and the OEP is a good product. But most of that is unnecessary dollars spent!

 

[ericool007]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

not exactly my prefered choice in supplements but everyones different so i say if you can afford it then go for it, but i see a lot of things in there that look like test/libido enhancers which you would definitely want to cycle off of. and then aakg, okg, and carnosine just seem kind of useless, try maybe citrulline or agmatine instead.

 

[murk01]

Hey, I have been checking out the forums for some time now. I have been impressed with all the knowledge here and I am hoping that a few people might be able to look at my supplement regimen and tell me if there is something I am missing or something that I should take out.

I realize that a solid diet, training regimen, and adequate rest are key for body recomposition... But, I am looking to see if I might help things along a bit with supplements without doing any harm... (Fair warning - I am taking the 'kitchen sink' approach)

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Background: I was a "husky" kid and got to over 225lbs. at the age of 18 - weak and fat. Lost a ton of weight via diet and cardio and got down to 177 in my early twenties. In my mid twenties I did Triathlon and Half-Marathon - way too skinny and still weak - then I began lifting - after a year of doing the Men's Health Book of Muscle workouts I was asked who my plastic surgeon was... That was ~8 years ago. I went back to school, finished my degree, and now I am an incredibly busy public school teacher in the inner-city - this last year was stress-filled and I gained at least 20lbs of fat and lost a lot of muscle.

Today, I have been working out again for the past 2 months following the Book of Muscle beginner program: Monday, Wednesday, & Friday weight training for ~1 hour; I am also adding Tuesday & Thursday 30 minutes of interval training - outdoor stairs.

My apologies for the long post. Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated.

Dang boy!
Finish what u got and then go to basics. Protein, oat meal, multi, fish oil.
I like the daa, erase, toco8
But those are not staples.
Good luck. Inner city NY?

 

[Orion17]

Holy Jesus! You made of money bro??

The best advice as far as supplementing at this stage (assuming diet is in check) is to keep it simple. Protein, creatine, maybe preworkouts. You can use the DAA just be sure to cycle it and the OEP is a good product. But most of that is unnecessary dollars spent!

Made of money? Ha! No, I am a public school teacher, but I am frugal so that I can spend money when/where I need to. But, I thought I might be overdoing it...

I hear you on cycling the DAA, my understanding is that I should only go up to 8 weeks? I am loving the OEP... It's insanely good.

Which preworkouts would you recommend?

 

[Orion17]

not exactly my prefered choice in supplements but everyones different so i say if you can afford it then go for it, but i see a lot of things in there that look like test/libido enhancers which you would definitely want to cycle off of. and then aakg, okg, and carnosine just seem kind of useless, try maybe citrulline or agmatine instead.

Hey, Thanks for the heads up on Agmatine... Once I am finished with all my AAKG & Carnosine, I will definitely try it out. As for the "preferred choice of supplements" - is there something that you might recommend in lieu of that which I am taking?

 

[Orion17]

Dang boy!
Finish what u got and then go to basics. Protein, oat meal, multi, fish oil.
I like the daa, erase, toco8
But those are not staples.
Good luck. Inner city NY?

Hey, Thanks for the advice. I thought I should consult the experts. Your plan is much cheaper. However, until this is all gone... As far as you can see, there isn't anything that might interfere with anything else?

No I am not in NY, although I loved living there, I am teaching on the other coast, in Oakland.

 

[ericool007]

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day
FISH OIL

I would get rid of all the red things, cycle the underlined stuff, double or triple up the dosage of RK if its intended for weight loss, use 95% extract forskolin(c-bolic). I would probably use ephedrine/caffine istead of OEP. and if i was a little husky I would also add something Like abliderate advanced, TTA, and some form of carnitine preferably PLC or LCLT.

Thats what i mean by preferred choice take it with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions lol

 

[bigbb123]

The number one thing I would get rid of above all else is that godamn poison they call propecia. It is by far the worst drug I have ever taken, even if some of the other things you are taking possibly counteract the sides. I advise any one I hear taking it to get off unless absolutely needed as in your doctor will shoot you if you come off. It can cause gyno, impotence, hinder your gains( dht is needed for both fat loss and muscle building, and just generally wreak havoc on your hormone profile. I took it for a month and hated it. Aside from that nothing your taking is dangerous, even the bupropion is safe in comparison to the propecia. Just my 2 cents

 

[Orion17]

I would get rid of all the red things, cycle the underlined stuff, double or triple up the dosage of RK if its intended for weight loss, use 95% extract forskolin(c-bolic). I would probably use ephedrine/caffine istead of OEP. and if i was a little husky I would also add something Like abliderate advanced, TTA, and some for of carnitine preferably PLC or LCLT.

Thats what i mean by preferred choice take it with a grain of salt as everyone has different opinions lol

Hey, Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out - this was incredibly clear!

I have concerns about ephedra... I realize that DMAA has issues too, but I just stocked up on OEP. And, I am looking into your other recommendations too. As for Fish Oil, I am looking for a vegetarian equivalent. Have you heard of anything that might be a good vegetarian substitute? I am looking at the "Total EFA by Health from the Sun."

Thanks again!

 

[Orion17]

The number one thing I would get rid of above all else is that godamn poison they call propecia. It is by far the worst drug I have ever taken, even if some of the other things you are taking possibly counteract the sides. I advise any one I hear taking it to get off unless absolutely needed as in your doctor will shoot you if you come off. It can cause gyno, impotence, hinder your gains( dht is needed for both fat loss and muscle building, and just generally wreak havoc on your hormone profile. I took it for a month and hated it. Aside from that nothing your taking is dangerous, even the bupropion is safe in comparison to the propecia. Just my 2 cents

I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.

 

[ericool007]

I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.

ah that would make sense as to why you had so many libido increasing sups if you come off those and stay on propecia: of which i forgot about the impotency it causes, you might just need to get prescribed viagra or somtin lol.

i feel you though I wouldnt want to lose my hair either so i could see why one would take propecia even if it turns you into a woman lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/mandi-mckee-william-propecia-baldness-drug-woman_n_1695706.html

 

[bigbb123]

I hear you on the effects of Propecia... I just don't want to lose my hair. I am different that I was before taking it. I have not experience any gyno - thank God! However, my libido has dropped a great deal... So I am looking, with a relatively full head of hair, at some alternatives - which include the use of TOCO-8. If you have any recommendations on that front, I am all ears. Thanks.

Hair thing is totally understandable man, I just loathe that drug. Don't despair however, there are methods to stem hair loss, albeit a bit more complicated. My regimen consists of toco-8 which is actually effective believe it or not, topical spiro shampoo and nizoral shampoo, as well as rogaine. Is it an annoying ritual, yes very much so, but it has been effective in stemming pretty rapid shedding at some points. Thing is with or without propecia or rogaine, those prone to it will eventually lose their hair, no question, these drugs simply delay what is sadly inevitable. My suggestion, coming from a guy fighting the same battle is to drop the propecia, continue the test boosting supps, get blood work to determine the effects of the propecia, try my regimen and look at other alternatives of course and save up for a transplant. Transplant is actually the best bet pit of all these things although the most expensive

 

[murk01]

Do u think toco8 helps at all

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Hair thing is totally understandable man, I just loathe that drug. Don't despair however, there are methods to stem hair loss, albeit a bit more complicated. My regimen consists of toco-8 which is actually effective believe it or not, topical spiro shampoo and nizoral shampoo, as well as rogaine. Is it an annoying ritual, yes very much so, but it has been effective in stemming pretty rapid shedding at some points. Thing is with or without propecia or rogaine, those prone to it will eventually lose their hair, no question, these drugs simply delay what is sadly inevitable. My suggestion, coming from a guy fighting the same battle is to drop the propecia, continue the test boosting supps, get blood work to determine the effects of the propecia, try my regimen and look at other alternatives of course and save up for a transplant. Transplant is actually the best bet pit of all these things although the most expensive

100% correct....propecia is poison and spiro /azelaic acid/rogaine/nizoral is the way to go despite the PITA of topical application .....for prevention at least, which is where i am at...

 

[Orion17]

Do u think toco8 helps at all

Hey, I have heard good things about TOCO-8; but the study that showed a decrease in shedding was based on a different form of Tocomin. I just started with the TOCO-8; I'll keep you posted on any changes - good or bad.

 

[Orion17]

100% correct....propecia is poison and spiro /azelaic acid/rogaine/nizoral is the way to go despite the PITA of topical application .....for prevention at least, which is where i am at...

Hey, thanks for the advice. I have ordered 10% azelaic acid. Should I have gone for the 20%? Also I ordered Regenepure instead of Nizoral. I have the minoxidil, but I have heard mixed reviews on spiro. Have you noticed it makes/made a difference?

 

[Stroke UR Ego]

if you've got that sort of money you should invest in nootropics

 

[ToNNNNyT]

Age: 33
Height: 5'11"
Weight: ~187lbs.
Body Fat: 19-20%
Diet: Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian

What I am taking:

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

Red should go
Blue should stay
Blue BOLD are staples and you only these for about a month of 2 and then add back in the rest of the blue ONE AT A TIME so you can gauge each their effects and compare them.

Get your diet and training in order and after 1-3 months of proper diet and training, you add erase and OEP etc back in.

Things you should consider:
-A multi vit
-Fish oils
-DCP/Slin Sane V1/V2(these 2 are in the same class as the blue above and should be added in 1 at a time after a few months of good diet and training to see their effects).

I removed the hairloss products just because hairloss is going to happen no point fighting it

 

[JudoJosh]

why vegetarian?

 

[aLinux]

Bupropion (stressfull year)
Propecia - 1mg
Super Nutrition's Opti-Energy Packs: 2-3 per day
Toco-8 - 1.26g
Astaxanthin - 12mg
Whey Protein Isolate
Whey Protein Concentrate
Raw Maca - 750mg x 2
Tribulus - 1g @ 45% saponins x 2 (I realize this is probably worthless, but I am taking it until it’s gone.)
Forskolin - 250mg @ 20% = 50mg Forskolin
Raspberry Ketones - 250mg x 2
ZMA - 2.4g - before bed
Korean Ginseng - 560mg @ 2% ginsenosides x 2
Pygeum - 100mg
DAA Powder - ~3g
Erase Pro - 1 capsule per day
L-DOPA - 120mg
Damiana - 450mg x 2
AAKG - 1500mg
OKG - 500mg
Creatine - ~4g
Beta-Alanine - 2.25g
L-Carnosine - 500mg
Oxy Elite Pro - 2 capsules per day

I know you've researched it all and feel you're taking all the best supplements to cover all your needs, but one thing I've learned lately,
is unless you use all-the-above supplements from a same and reputable company that's been FDA tested for purity(which hardly happens), etc. I wouldn't believe the labels... and in my mind, I think like this now "I'm better off taking just the basics... daily Whey protein and perhaps Creatine Mono., BCAA, 1000mg of EPA/DHA, etc.... because all the other goodies look great on paper.. but are more likely under-dosed, not as described(pure) as you would think, could actually do you more harm..containing traces of bacteria, etc.." I dropped most all my supplements
I used to take and found a online calorie counter, e.g. crono-meter, and bought a weigh scale to weigh out my foods. Over-time I figured out a good healthy diet thru trial and error for weight-loss and muscle gains. I used to have endless bottles of supplements....over 200 bottles of junk that all seemed to address my needs...but later I figured it was just an addiction. MAYBE some worked ..but you never know WHATS working or helping your needs when your taking on so much stuff.. Only things I take besides an almost perfect diet now is a good Whey powder, BCAA, Glutamine, Creatine, EPA/DHA, ALA, ALCAR, Carnosine, CoQ10(ubiquinol), Acai, Trans-Reverstrol, Royal-Jelly(forget why I use this), Vit-E, Selenium, Red Panax Ginseng, Beta-Alanine, Citrulline Malate and once in a while Agmatine(sometimes it gives me a headache) .. but I just keep it simple now.. and focus more on diet, its the most crucial and you'll drop to 9-11% fat overtime and gain some good muscle.

DAA is fun to cycle. MACA and (Z)MA are supposedly good for keeping estrogen lower..ymmv.. For some reason reason when I take 5g MACA
it does seem to balance out hormones(in a good way) ... and lots the other stuff ur taking looks good too.. but keep in mind..if there all from
different companies, chances are they could contain some nasty bacteria and do more harm then good.. so I try to just take "what I think is necessary--in my head" yeah I'm nuts ..hahha lol .. Oh Tribulus I stopped.. found it gives me gyno.... but Erase Pro is great for combating that..
Crap, my reply post is all messed up ... lol..but one last thing.. "everything *seems* to work, until it doesn't" .. I think this is where
cycling off/on certain supplements becomes a great idea..body loves to up/down regulate back to homeostasis so I think even then.. its best sometimes to Not even take supplements...but I do haha .. Good luck

 

[Orion17]

Red should go
Blue should stay
Blue BOLD are staples and you only these for about a month of 2 and then add back in the rest of the blue ONE AT A TIME so you can gauge each their effects and compare them.

Get your diet and training in order and after 1-3 months of proper diet and training, you add erase and OEP etc back in.

Things you should consider:
-A multi vit
-Fish oils
-DCP/Slin Sane V1/V2(these 2 are in the same class as the blue above and should be added in 1 at a time after a few months of good diet and training to see their effects).

I removed the hairloss products just because hairloss is going to happen no point fighting it

Hey thanks for the advice! The Super Nutrition energy packs are my multivitamin; they are amazing. But, just so I am clear... You recommend removing everything but the basics (bolded blue) now and then add in one thing at a time? But, won't the OEP, DAA, and Erase Pro help/enhance results now?

 

[Orion17]

why vegetarian?

Hey, I've been a non-judgemental-vegetarian since 1996. I feel better physically and my take is... "If I can live my life without harming an animal, then... Why not?" I still consume eggs and semi-solid dairy (After being vegan for a while, liquid dairy tastes horrible, but I was born in Wisconsin, so cheese is definitely a part of my life.)

Anyway, to each their own. Everyone around me eats meat, more for them. Right?

 

[Orion17]

I know you've researched it all and feel you're taking all the best supplements to cover all your needs, but one thing I've learned lately,
is unless you use all-the-above supplements from a same and reputable company that's been FDA tested for purity(which hardly happens), etc. I wouldn't believe the labels... and in my mind, I think like this now "I'm better off taking just the basics... daily Whey protein and perhaps Creatine Mono., BCAA, 1000mg of EPA/DHA, etc.... because all the other goodies look great on paper.. but are more likely under-dosed, not as described(pure) as you would think, could actually do you more harm..containing traces of bacteria, etc.." I dropped most all my supplements
I used to take and found a online calorie counter, e.g. crono-meter, and bought a weigh scale to weigh out my foods. Over-time I figured out a good healthy diet thru trial and error for weight-loss and muscle gains. I used to have endless bottles of supplements....over 200 bottles of junk that all seemed to address my needs...but later I figured it was just an addiction. MAYBE some worked ..but you never know WHATS working or helping your needs when your taking on so much stuff.. Only things I take besides an almost perfect diet now is a good Whey powder, BCAA, Glutamine, Creatine, EPA/DHA, ALA, ALCAR, Carnosine, CoQ10(ubiquinol), Acai, Trans-Reverstrol, Royal-Jelly(forget why I use this), Vit-E, Selenium, Red Panax Ginseng, Beta-Alanine, Citrulline Malate and once in a while Agmatine(sometimes it gives me a headache) .. but I just keep it simple now.. and focus more on diet, its the most crucial and you'll drop to 9-11% fat overtime and gain some good muscle.

DAA is fun to cycle. MACA and (Z)MA are supposedly good for keeping estrogen lower..ymmv.. For some reason reason when I take 5g MACA
it does seem to balance out hormones(in a good way) ... and lots the other stuff ur taking looks good too.. but keep in mind..if there all from
different companies, chances are they could contain some nasty bacteria and do more harm then good.. so I try to just take "what I think is necessary--in my head" yeah I'm nuts ..hahha lol .. Oh Tribulus I stopped.. found it gives me gyno.... but Erase Pro is great for combating that..
Crap, my reply post is all messed up ... lol..but one last thing.. "everything *seems* to work, until it doesn't" .. I think this is where
cycling off/on certain supplements becomes a great idea..body loves to up/down regulate back to homeostasis so I think even then.. its best sometimes to Not even take supplements...but I do haha .. Good luck

Hey, thanks for your thoughts on and experience with supplements. I am planning on cycling the majority of what I have begun taking.

I am wondering which BCAAs you would recommend - brand name, amount?

 

[Stroke UR Ego]

No need for the ZMA also

 

[Jim2542]

Hey, thanks for your thoughts on and experience with supplements. I am planning on cycling the majority of what I have begun taking.

I am wondering which BCAAs you would recommend - brand name, amount?

Bulk modern is a good deal on NP

 

[JudoJosh]

Hey, I've been a non-judgemental-vegetarian since 1996. I feel better physically and my take is... "If I can live my life without harming an animal, then... Why not?" I still consume eggs and semi-solid dairy (After being vegan for a while, liquid dairy tastes horrible, but I was born in Wisconsin, so cheese is definitely a part of my life.)

Anyway, to each their own. Everyone around me eats meat, more for them. Right?

I hope you didnt take my question as an attack on you because it isnt. I am truly just curious and I ask that to every vegan or vegetarian i come across.

 

[bill86]

maybe supplements are great for some people (i would assume so after reading reviews around here), but personally i have never gotten REAL results that i felt were 'worth the money' from any supplement at all. like many others have said, just stick to the basics. for me, the basics is just whey to supplement for those extra grams of protein i cant get through diet, as ive never responded in any noticeable or significant way to anything whether its creatine, agmatine, arginine, beta-alanine, etc (and by that i mean ive gone months with no supplements at all and others with nice stacks, and recorded about the same amount of weight/reps/weight gain, etc during the same time frame)... but hey, everyones different, so maybe you'll have luck.

but just so this post is completely pointless, are you taking the astaxanthin 12mg because your pills are 12mg? based on what ive read, i really wouldnt go above 4mg, but make sure that its all natural astaxanthin. people have reported somewhat serious side effects when taking certain types, and although they say you can take up to 12mg, ive heard nutritionists recommend not going past 4, as it's still somewhat of a new supplement. ive got a bottle of 4mg caps, but after reading some of the reviews ive decided to hold of for a little while until a little more is known on it, haha. but anyway, just look into it sometime and decide for yourself.

 

[ToNNNNyT]

Hey thanks for the advice! The Super Nutrition energy packs are my multivitamin; they are amazing. But, just so I am clear... You recommend removing everything but the basics (bolded blue) now and then add in one thing at a time? But, won't the OEP, DAA, and
Erase Pro help/enhance results now?

Yeah thats what I meant as for enhancing results you do have a point however both DAA and erase pro boost test so how would you know which affected your libido more or OEP is a good fat burner but some might say that dexaprine is better,maybe you want to try dex and compare but how can you compare if your talking a OEP+ test booster and cort/est blocker to just taking dex standalone.

That was my point,if your taking ABCD supps ontop of your staples how are you going to know who is doing what.Its never a good idea to run aload of stuff though it is tempting too in order to get faster results but you gotta get the basics down first then build from there

 

[Orion17]

I hope you didnt take my question as an attack on you because it isnt. I am truly just curious and I ask that to every vegan or vegetarian i come across.

Not at all... I am totally cool with your question. I'm asking about supplements and diet is a huge part of reaching my goals. So, no worries, no offense assumed or taken.

 

[Orion17]

maybe supplements are great for some people (i would assume so after reading reviews around here), but personally i have never gotten REAL results that i felt were 'worth the money' from any supplement at all. like many others have said, just stick to the basics. for me, the basics is just whey to supplement for those extra grams of protein i cant get through diet, as ive never responded in any noticeable or significant way to anything whether its creatine, agmatine, arginine, beta-alanine, etc (and by that i mean ive gone months with no supplements at all and others with nice stacks, and recorded about the same amount of weight/reps/weight gain, etc during the same time frame)... but hey, everyones different, so maybe you'll have luck.

but just so this post is completely pointless, are you taking the astaxanthin 12mg because your pills are 12mg? based on what ive read, i really wouldnt go above 4mg, but make sure that its all natural astaxanthin. people have reported somewhat serious side effects when taking certain types, and although they say you can take up to 12mg, ive heard nutritionists recommend not going past 4, as it's still somewhat of a new supplement. ive got a bottle of 4mg caps, but after reading some of the reviews ive decided to hold of for a little while until a little more is known on it, haha. but anyway, just look into it sometime and decide for yourself.

I have a bottle of bio-astin. Each poll is 4mg, but I did some reading and it seems like 10mg was the "magic number." But, I'll look into it further. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Orion17]

Yeah thats what I meant as for enhancing results you do have a point however both DAA and erase pro boost test so how would you know which affected your libido more or OEP is a good fat burner but some might say that dexaprine is better,maybe you want to try dex and compare but how can you compare if your talking a OEP+ test booster and cort/est blocker to just taking dex standalone.

That was my point,if your taking ABCD supps ontop of your staples how are you going to know who is doing what.Its never a good idea to run aload of stuff though it is tempting too in order to get faster results but you gotta get the basics down first then build from there

Heard... I am thinking about throttling back to the basics, after my current cycle is over. Then I will definitely be in a position to build from the basics.

Also, I haven't really looked into Dexaprine. I will do a bit of research, thanks for the tips!

 

[Orion17]

if you've got that sort of money you should invest in nootropics

Why nootropics? Could you elaborate a bit? Also, I am thinking the ZMA is only beneficial when I am training my hardest; when I was doing Triathlon I found it helpful.

 

[bigbb123]

Why nootropics? Could you elaborate a bit? Also, I am thinking the ZMA is only beneficial when I am training my hardest; when I was doing Triathlon I found it helpful.

You are correct in your conjecture that ZMA would be useful during very demanding physical training like the triathlon. What is your training like currently? Keep me updated through PM on how your hair loss is going, i think i have finally stopped the shedding dead in its tracks!

 

[Orion17]

You are correct in your conjecture that ZMA would be useful during very demanding physical training like the triathlon. What is your training like currently? Keep me updated through PM on how your hair loss is going, i think i have finally stopped the shedding dead in its tracks!

Cool, will do. One quick question: I have heard mixed reviews on spiro. Have you noticed it makes/made a difference? Which brand do you use?

 

[Orion17]

You are correct in your conjecture that ZMA would be useful during very demanding physical training like the triathlon. What is your training like currently? Keep me updated through PM on how your hair loss is going, i think i have finally stopped the shedding dead in its tracks!

As for training, I lift 3 days a week and do intervals 2 days a week.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Where to begin in this thread...lol

 

[Orion17]

Where to begin in this thread...lol

Any thoughts you might have would be appreciated.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Any thoughts you might have would be appreciated.

Wanna give me a recap and any lingering questions?

 

[Orion17]

Wanna give me a recap and any lingering questions?

Hey, thanks for the offer. Do you have any thoughts on Spiro for hair loss? I have heard mixed reviews. Also, do you happen to have a preference for a brand of BCAAs? Jim2542 recommended Bulk Modern.

 

[Stroke UR Ego]

Nootropics boost cognitive function (learning/mathematic skills/unstanding etc.. are improved) and usually play as anti-oxidants and neuroprotectors

Nootropic, "Nootropics, also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration."

Long term use is somewhat necessary to feel effect

 

[Orion17]

Nootropics boost cognitive function (learning/mathematic skills/unstanding etc.. are improved) and usually play as anti-oxidants and neuroprotectors

Nootropic, "Nootropics, also referred to as smart drugs, memory enhancers, neuro enhancers, cognitive enhancers, and intelligence enhancers, are drugs, supplements, nutraceuticals, and functional foods that improve mental functions such as cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration."

Long term use is somewhat necessary to feel effect

Hey, I'm familiar with nootropics, but when I asked you to elaborate I was wondering how they might help me on my path to recomposition. At least, that's how I read your first recommendation for nootropics - that they might somehow aid the process.

 

[aLinux]

Hey, thanks for your thoughts on and experience with supplements. I am planning on cycling the majority of what I have begun taking.

I am wondering which BCAAs you would recommend - brand name, amount?

Optimum Nutrition 5000 (5g BCAA) or Xtend BCAA (better tasting if you can't stomach unflavored ON stuff)

I live in Canada so I tend to purchase what I can over here to save on Shipping costs..but typically most people go for at least 5g BCAA a serving (at various ratios...i don't care...I've never noticed a difference..I don't even know it BCAAs work lol). Some hard-core junkies will use up-to 30g daily. But you have to take into account that you might be already be getting enough from your diet and Whey powders alone. I myself use MVP Power Mass Leangainer Whey powder which contains 12g BCAAs per serving plus I use there (Revive Recovery Agent which contains another 5g BCAAs) but I only use Revive after my liftin weight workouts (3 days wk). An (MVP: Power Mass) equivalent for USA would be (Ultimate Nutrition: ISO Mass Xtreme (I love this stuff cept sum ppl cant take the fishy smell), but it has an almost exact same profile as MVP with loads of BCAAs, Creatine, Glutamine, Healthy Fats, Multi-Vitamin, etc... so basically I don't even need extra BCAAs..but I take them anyhow... plus BCAAs supposedly help stimulate fat-loss... building/keeping more muscle... means less fat they say. I started out at 236lbs 25-30% fat ..went thru countless Whey powders, etc .. and these two really made the best difference for myself. Diet is still King.. w/o it nothing is gonna budge and yes there geared towards hard-gainers but I still say I was big and fatty but still classify myself as a hard-gainer for muscle...so once I had my diet spot on (mostly pure vegan at this point) i dropped to 179lbs fast doing a crazy 900-1200calories daily ...When I was happy with that...I was weak and scrawny as hell..but down to 11-12% fat... Finally I started on Whey powders... raised myself to maintenance 2500+ clean calories but now including extra lean turkey,chicken, Salmon and Sole plus all veggies/fruits, Sweet Potatoes, eggs, Non Fat Greek Yogurt, Cottage Cheese and Milk, etc.. all the crap I didn't want to eat...but I feel better than ever and i managed to get back to 190lbs pretty easily..but i dropped to 9-10% fat..which was unreal for me.. I eat the exact same thing everyday for last 2 yrs to maintain
and just recently..had to try some GMO doritos and ice cream.. so i gained another 8lbs ..but at a 12-13% expense ..but hey.. its far cry coming from 25% : ) so it can be done ! ..sorry for long winded post..im like my sister.. we go on forever (off topic lol)..i cant stand readin her long crap neither..haha

 

[Stroke UR Ego]

lol, neah just something to add..

 

[Orion17]

Optimum Nutrition 5000 (5g BCAA) or Xtend BCAA (better tasting if you can't stomach unflavored ON stuff)

I live in Canada so I tend to purchase what I can over here to save on Shipping costs..but typically most people go for at least 5g BCAA a serving (at various ratios...i don't care...I've never noticed a difference..I don't even know it BCAAs work lol). Some hard-core junkies will use up-to 30g daily. But you have to take into account that you might be already be getting enough from your diet and Whey powders alone. I myself use MVP Power Mass Leangainer Whey powder which contains 12g BCAAs per serving plus I use there (Revive Recovery Agent which contains another 5g BCAAs) but I only use Revive after my liftin weight workouts (3 days wk). An (MVP: Power Mass) equivalent for USA would be (Ultimate Nutrition: ISO Mass Xtreme (I love this stuff cept sum ppl cant take the fishy smell), but it has an almost exact same profile as MVP with loads of BCAAs, Creatine, Glutamine, Healthy Fats, Multi-Vitamin, etc... so basically I don't even need extra BCAAs..but I take them anyhow... plus BCAAs supposedly help stimulate fat-loss... building/keeping more muscle... means less fat they say. I started out at 236lbs 25-30% fat ..went thru countless Whey powders, etc .. and these two really made the best difference for myself. Diet is still King.. w/o it nothing is gonna budge and yes there geared towards hard-gainers but I still say I was big and fatty but still classify myself as a hard-gainer for muscle...so once I had my diet spot on (mostly pure vegan at this point) i dropped to 179lbs fast doing a crazy 900-1200calories daily ...When I was happy with that...I was weak and scrawny as hell..but down to 11-12% fat... Finally I started on Whey powders... raised myself to maintenance 2500+ clean calories but now including extra lean turkey,chicken, Salmon and Sole plus all veggies/fruits, Sweet Potatoes, eggs, Non Fat Greek Yogurt, Cottage Cheese and Milk, etc.. all the crap I didn't want to eat...but I feel better than ever and i managed to get back to 190lbs pretty easily..but i dropped to 9-10% fat..which was unreal for me.. I eat the exact same thing everyday for last 2 yrs to maintain
and just recently..had to try some GMO doritos and ice cream.. so i gained another 8lbs ..but at a 12-13% expense ..but hey.. its far cry coming from 25% : ) so it can be done ! ..sorry for long winded post..im like my sister.. we go on forever (off topic lol)..i cant stand readin her long crap neither..haha

Hey, thanks for the recommendations I'll check out the ON BCAAs. And, congratulations on your body recomposition!

 

[Orion17]

lol, neah just something to add..

Cool, I thought I had missed something huge.

 

[bigbb123]

Cool, I thought I had missed something huge.

I would suggest a 12:1:1 bcaa ratio. Topical spiro was indeed effective for me, some people report side effects, I have not experienced any. In my opinion, once you finish what you have for supplements, stick the following. There is so much stuff out there that just looks so cool, it's tempting, but make no mistake supplements can be physiologically addicting. Stick to the proven basics, trust me, half the stuff out there is crap.

Ok here we go:

1. Creatine, I perfer magnesium Creatine chelate over mono, no stomach issues
2. Beta alanine
3.whey protein
4. Fat burner like oep
5.bcaa
6. ZMA love it or hate it I find it works
7. Erase and DAA, your not some 20 year old
Kid and propecia has probably done a number on your hormone balance, so I think it will be rather effective for you
8. Fishoil and a b-complex
9. Libido supplements like maca are fine but trib Is garbage. Get yourself some 40%percent icariin. If you must and you will notice a difference in erection quality that is for sure
10. Since you are recomping a good GDA like slin sane or glycobol could be beneficiall

I reiterate fight the temptation for endless supplements and once you come off propecia and your body restores your natural hormone levels watch the magic happen in the gym and in the bedroom, that is the best advice I can give you.

 

[Wilcox]

Now thats ALOT of supps!

 

[beast87]

Hey, Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out - this was incredibly clear!

I have concerns about ephedra... I realize that DMAA has issues too, but I just stocked up on OEP. And, I am looking into your other recommendations too. As for Fish Oil, I am looking for a vegetarian equivalent. Have you heard of anything that might be a good vegetarian substitute? I am looking at the "Total EFA by Health from the Sun."

Thanks again!

Flax seed is and Flax extract is probably the best- It has more of all the omegas than fish oil has anyway so its a better way to control your triglycerides and cholesterol. Its also a heck of of alot easier to scoop in a tablespoon of milled flax into greek yogurt or into your protein than to choke down some of those damn ostrich eggs for pills.

 

[beast87]

Hey, Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out - this was incredibly clear!

I have concerns about ephedra... I realize that DMAA has issues too, but I just stocked up on OEP. And, I am looking into your other recommendations too. As for Fish Oil, I am looking for a vegetarian equivalent. Have you heard of anything that might be a good vegetarian substitute? I am looking at the "Total EFA by Health from the Sun."

Thanks again!

Flax seed is and Flax extract is probably the best- It has more of all the omegas than fish oil has anyway so its a better way to control your triglycerides and cholesterol. Its also a heck of of alot easier to scoop in a tablespoon of milled flax into greek yogurt or into your protein than to choke down some of those damn ostrich eggs for pills.

sorry for the back to back posts but my prework out is a double dose of ON 5000 BCAAs and a scoop of BSN HyperFX about 15-20 Pre-WO and I love it.