Intimidate or DAA

[fatburner2007]

Much difference between intimidate and DAA?

 

[mr.cooper69]

There certainly is. Both are effective in different respects.

 

[JonRubio]

Much difference between intimidate and DAA?

Both are great. One better than the other? Ehhh ill leave that for you to decide. Many people have different opinions.

 

[fatburner2007]

Never tried either so looking for opinions.

Both are great. One better than the other? Ehhh ill leave that for you to decide. Many people have different opinions.

 

[JonRubio]

Never tried either so looking for opinions.

I personally loved intimidate for the sleep benefits and I loved DAA for the cognitive enhancement I had with it. Their both gonna help you gain muscle regardless.

 

[warbird01]

Both great products, with very different price points if that matters to you.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/iforce-nutrition/intimidate-30-capsules.html

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/daa-180-capsules.html
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/serious-nutrition-solutions/daa-powder-150-grams.html

 

[allnatural923]

There certainly is. Both are effective in different respects.

^this. NMDA is more effective at agonizing the NMDA receptor in the brain due to the fact that the body does not have to donate a methyl group to allow it to interact with the receptor. This is what contributes to deeper slow wave sleep, and increases in test levels, IGF levels, etc. DAA does the same thing, just has to accept a methyl group donated from the body. I would argue that NMDA is superior since it bypasses this step and interacts directly with the receptor. However, I know some people would disagree and I respect pretty much everyone's opinion on the matter; more or less I'd say try it and see for yourself what you respond best to. The logs on Intimidate (our NMDA product) have been nothing short of stellar. But, being that DAA is cheaper and it has plenty of research behind it, some people believe it is a better option. Just an instance of more or less finding what's optimal for you

 

[abformulations]

^this. NMDA is more effective at agonizing the NMDA receptor in the brain due to the fact that the body does not have to donate a methyl group to allow it to interact with the receptor. This is what contributes to deeper slow wave sleep, and increases in test levels, IGF levels, etc. DAA does the same thing, just has to accept a methyl group donated from the body. I would argue that NMDA is superior since it bypasses this step and interacts directly with the receptor. However, I know some people would disagree and I respect pretty much everyone's opinion on the matter; more or less I'd say try it and see for yourself what you respond best to. The logs on Intimidate (our NMDA product) have been nothing short of stellar. But, being that DAA is cheaper and it has plenty of research behind it, some people believe it is a better option. Just an instance of more or less finding what's optimal for you

Well put. Next week is pct for me. Doing intimidate and erase. Let's see how that goes. I love erase and let's see how intimidate treats me

 

[criticalbench]

Well put. Next week is pct for me. Doing intimidate and erase. Let's see how that goes. I love erase and let's see how intimidate treats me

Awesome man, can't wait to see how you like it!

IMO OP, the libido boost was similar with both, so if just using it to increase my sex drive, I'd pick up DAA but I've found intimidate to be far superior in the gym gaining strength and muscle.

Mike

 

[impecunious]

I personally loved intimidate for the sleep benefits and I loved DAA for the cognitive enhancement I had with it. Their both gonna help you gain muscle regardless.

I am actually considering intimidate mainly for its sleep benefits. Im not sure this is the right thing to do , but many like yourself report great sleep and for me it means everything as its an area thats a real problem for me and im sure has been hindering my recovery as well as sense of well being. I would appreciate if anyone would give me some insight on this situation. Thanks in advance for any help..

 

[PuZo]

Intimidate is something you should definitely try out, especially if you already tried DAA. best way to compare.

 

[allnatural923]

I am actually considering intimidate mainly for its sleep benefits. Im not sure this is the right thing to do , but many like yourself report great sleep and for me it means everything as its an area thats a real problem for me and im sure has been hindering my recovery as well as sense of well being. I would appreciate if anyone would give me some insight on this situation. Thanks in advance for any help..

There have been studies linking poor sleep quality to anxiety, depression, so the hindered sense of well being could stem from there, and recovery can definitely be affected by a lack of proper sleep. Since impaired trafficking at the NMDA receptor can disrupt sleep patterns (including deep, slow wave sleep), using Intimidate could aid your sleep problem. However, some users on here have had problems sleeping while taking it (at which point they changed to taking their Intimidate pre-workout, and reported no further issues, no lethargy, or anything else). If you have any other specific questions or want me to go into further details feel free to shoot me a PM

 

[TheHardOne]

Never tried DAA yet, but I have tried Intimidate, and I can honestly say for someone like me that doesn't get that much sleep a night(around 2-3 hours), my sleep significantly improved! The duration and quality. Obviously if your sleep is on point, your muscle building / fat loss goals will come at a more efficient rate. Not to mention your mood / well being gets better!

 

[impecunious]

I tried to PM you, but wasn't permitted, i don't have enough posts. Thank you for the info !

 

[allnatural923]

I tried to PM you, but wasn't permitted, i don't have enough posts. Thank you for the info !

never a problem bro

 

[abformulations]

Question for the reps. Can intimidate be taken with torem? Because I take torem before bed and intimidate is also before bed.

 

[abformulations]

Bump for an answer.

 

[antihero]

Question for the reps. Can intimidate be taken with torem? Because I take torem before bed and intimidate is also before bed.

Yes it can.

 

[abformulations]

Yes it can.

Thanx. Wanted to make sure. I wasn't to sure on it.

 

[Diesel0022]

Doesn't stop people from eating straight up nmda despite the collection in the anterior pituitary and the proven excitotoxicity


strong work for releasing a little more LH

...

 

[VaughnTrue]

NMDA along with DAA create brain damage when applied directly to, or injected into ones brain. As long as you're not injecting this stuff into your cranium your A-OK

 

[JonRubio]

NMDA along with DAA create brain damage when applied directly to, or injected into ones brain. As long as you're not injecting this stuff into your cranium your A-OK

So after a 4 week cycle of DAA, the following day I may start intimidate with no risks what so ever? Just being cautious.

 

[Diesel0022]

There are studies showing excitotoxicity through oral ingestion.


NMDA cannot be 100x as potent as DAA, unfortunately, because NMDA in any dosage reaching close to the dosage of DAA, becomes neurotoxic and can have very bad adverse side effects.

So dosing in lower dosages is the only safe way to dose NMDA.

DAA, on the other hand, doesn't have any negative effects.

So in essence, the way you're stating potency, is only in the dosage quantity. If you can't take more of a potent supplement than 1/100 of the dose, then what good is 100% more potency doing for you? Nothing. Props to the marketing team.

 

[mr.cooper69]

There are studies showing excitotoxicity through oral ingestion.


NMDA cannot be 100x as potent as DAA, unfortunately, because NMDA in any dosage reaching close to the dosage of DAA, becomes neurotoxic and can have very bad adverse side effects.

So dosing in lower dosages is the only safe way to dose NMDA.

DAA, on the other hand, doesn't have any negative effects.

So in essence, the way you're stating potency, is only in the dosage quantity. If you can't take more of a potent supplement than 1/100 of the dose, then what good is 100% more potency doing for you? Nothing. Props to the marketing team.

Potency always refers to gram for gram effects. NMDA is 100x more potent than DAA at activating the NMDAR, but it is not more effective as you mentioned. I agree that net NMDAR agonism will be equal, or even higher in the DAA group given DAA -> NMDA conversion en vivo.

 

[Diesel0022]

That means 100x the testosterone production of DAA

DAA raises test by 42%, I believe there was a study stating this. So if Intimidate has 100x the testosterone production compared to DAA, as stated in their advertisement, 42% x 100 = 4200% increase in testosterone. brb arnold in a week.

Does Intimidate (NMDA) go directly to the NMDA Receptor?

 

[tilldeath]

DAA raises test by 42%, I believe there was a study stating this. So if Intimidate has 100x the testosterone production compared to DAA, as stated in their advertisement, 42% x 100 = 4200% increase in testosterone. brb arnold in a week.

Does Intimidate (NMDA) go directly to the NMDA Receptor?

that's not true it's on a per gram dose 100X as effective, just meaning smaller amount to see same results. Not that taking 3 grams+ of NMDA will illicit more of an effect.

 

[Diesel0022]

Potency always refers to gram for gram effects. NMDA is 100x more potent than DAA at activating the NMDAR, but it is not more effective as you mentioned. I agree that net NMDAR agonism will be equal, or even higher in the DAA group given DAA -> NMDA conversion en vivo.

that's not true it's on a per gram dose 100X as effective, just meaning smaller amount to see same results. Not that taking 3 grams+ of NMDA will illicit more of an effect.

I think we've already covered that. Thank you.

 

[VaughnTrue]

DAA raises test by 42%, I believe there was a study stating this. So if Intimidate has 100x the testosterone production compared to DAA, as stated in their advertisement, 42% x 100 = 4200% increase in testosterone. brb arnold in a week.

Does Intimidate (NMDA) go directly to the NMDA Receptor?

Intimidate doesn't offer 100x the testosterone boosting capability that DAA does, that's impossible and we all know it.


Since you HAVENT tried it, why don't we actually look at people who have compared the two? Each and every time they say one significantly outshines the other...


Or perhaps we'll just sit here and keep scaring people about excitotoxicity yea there is NO evidence that oral NMDA will induce that, and evidence actually points the other way...which has been posted on this site 50x already. Please, use search function.

 

[murk01]

Try daa first if it goes good or u want to step it up intimidate.
Daa powder is cheap. Intimidate should b more effective.

 

[Celorza]

There are studies showing excitotoxicity through oral ingestion.


NMDA cannot be 100x as potent as DAA, unfortunately, because NMDA in any dosage reaching close to the dosage of DAA, becomes neurotoxic and can have very bad adverse side effects.

So dosing in lower dosages is the only safe way to dose NMDA.

DAA, on the other hand, doesn't have any negative effects.

So in essence, the way you're stating potency, is only in the dosage quantity. If you can't take more of a potent supplement than 1/100 of the dose, then what good is 100% more potency doing for you? Nothing. Props to the marketing team.

Side effects of DAA in certain people can be quite harsh including acne, rise in the prolacting level and bloat...

Now, who cares about a bit of bloat? But IMO Prolactine level rise IS something to be worried about haha, I don't have that with DAA though , yet some people claim it does happen!

 

[murk01]

Side effects of DAA in certain people can be quite harsh including acne, rise in the prolacting level and bloat...

Now, who cares about a bit of bloat? But IMO Prolactine level rise IS something to be worried about haha, I don't have that with DAA though , yet some people claim it does happen!

Dude my first week on daa is all fuked up. Was not able to get a nights sleep. It was like I spent the night takes 30 sec micro naps every 2 hrs

 

[Diesel0022]

Intimidate doesn't offer 100x the testosterone boosting capability that DAA does, that's impossible and we all know it.


Since you HAVENT tried it, why don't we actually look at people who have compared the two? Each and every time they say one significantly outshines the other...


Or perhaps we'll just sit here and keep scaring people about excitotoxicity yea there is NO evidence that oral NMDA will induce that, and evidence actually points the other way...which has been posted on this site 50x already. Please, use search function.

Than why market it like that?

And I have, In fact, I can send you a picture of the bottle with my username and the 4 caps left in it.

Vaughn, bowing out would be the right thing to do. As the conversation would end when Coop answers my last question. Otherwise I have a few things to post in regards to NMDA.

 

[Celorza]

Dude my first week on daa is all fuked up. Was not able to get a nights sleep. It was like I spent the night takes 30 sec micro naps every 2 hrs

That's weird...I've been on Form-X (3g DAA) for more than 5 weeks and I got the total opposite effect from it, my sleep became slightly better and after adding Ergobolic I don't even need a sleep aid now haha.

 

[Celorza]

Than why market it like that?

And I have, In fact, I can send you a picture of the bottle with my username and the 4 caps left in it.

Vaughn, bowing out would be the right thing to do. As the conversation would end when Coop answers my last question. Otherwise I have a few things to post in regards to NMDA.

Coop doesn't oblige to people who just need to bash a company for their own opinions besides he has more class than to get his ego all bulked up and say "bow out" haha.

If you know all this and think its true...Why don't you simply keep it as your opinion and don't take it for yourself again? Rather than starting a p1ssing contest with a Rep without any point or meaning whatsoever?

Don't like it? don't take it !

 

[Diesel0022]

Coop doesn't oblige to people who just need to bash a company for their own opinions besides he has more class than to get his ego all bulked up and say "bow out" haha.

If you know all this and think its true...Why don't you simply keep it as your opinion and don't take it for yourself again? Rather than starting a p1ssing contest with a Rep without any point or meaning whatsoever?

Don't like it? don't take it !

I know Cyrus quite well, and I am not bashing Iforce. Vaughn/Loudy and the rest of crew have seen my support. But this is something either A. Needs to be known, or B. I need to be corrected on. Whatever the outcome, no respect is lost for Vaughn and his crew. Great guys with great products. But like I stated earlier, Id like to clear this up.

Vaughn, if you would prefer to take this to PM or Email, Id be happy to do that as well.

Edit- But you're right, I shouldnt have jumped like that and I apologize.

 

[murk01]

That's weird...I've been on Form-X (3g DAA) for more than 5 weeks and I got the total opposite effect from it, my sleep became slightly better and after adding Ergobolic I don't even need a sleep aid now haha.

Yeh. I did a search there r a few ppl that had the same prob. I must have gotten used to it now though

 

[VaughnTrue]

Than why market it like that?

And I have, In fact, I can send you a picture of the bottle with my username and the 4 caps left in it.

Vaughn, bowing out would be the right thing to do. As the conversation would end when Coop answers my last question. Otherwise I have a few things to post in regards to NMDA.

Please read iForce's write up on the product:

UNLEASH ALL OUT WAR ON YOUR HPTA
THE DRIVING FORCE OF INTIMIDATE!​

N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid (NMDA) is an amino acid derivative capable of causing an intensely anabolic response from NMDA receptors found within our bodies. NMDA receptors are designed to accept only certain compounds to connect to them, the most potent being NMDA. When NMDA binds to an NMDA receptor our HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis) is sent into overdrive.​

INTIMIDATE IS THE ONLY PRODUCT WITH 99.9% PURE NMDA!

Enhanced sleep:
Sleep is the one time of day that our body can recover, repair, and grow. By getting more restful sleep, your body will be able to repair and grow your muscles more efficiently than before.

Increased Libido:
One of the quickest signs that your body is in an anabolic state and ready for major fat loss and muscle gain!

Mood Elevation:
Activating NMDA receptors may help increase “feel good” chemicals in our bodies. Compounds such as Pregnenolone help us feel great throughout the day. Pregnenolone greatly increases in the presence of intense NMDA receptor activation.​

Long Term Memory:
We each have both short term and long term memory we pull from. Short term memory is for things like remembering that cute girls name you met 20 minutes ago. Your brain allows you to store memories for a short time period, and then it discards them unless you activate certain receptors to initiate long term storage. These receptors just so happen to be NMDA receptors. When we activate our NMDA receptors, our brains are primed to convert short term memory into long term memory, which means things should be easier to remember, and easier to recall when needed!

When it comes to the discovery of dietary supplements, iForce Nutrition has always pushed the boundaries and created the most unique and effective ingredients ever released. INTIMIDATE will push your body’s natural limits to new heights as you get bigger, stronger, faster, and leaner all at the same time. Don’t fall for the DAA hype, and use only the most pure and effective NMDA receptor activator on the planet…INTIMIDATE!​

http://iforcenutrition.com/intimidate.asp


Please, show me evidence that suggests oral ingested NMDA will harm someone. Patrick Arnold agrees that it will not, as does every single person who has actually researched the ingredient.


"Bow out"? LOL you're kidding me right? Jeeze...I didn't realize I couldn't disagree with an Axis Labs rep...man you guys are just too cool, looks like I should delete my account and start buying more axis labs products!
​

**These statements have not been approved by the FDA.[/quote

 

[VaughnTrue]

Hey Diesel,

Just in case you're a little nervous about using NMDA, take a look at what reverses direct nmda induced neurotoxicity(induced from direct brain application mind you...NOT oral...LOL

Neuroprotective effects of creatine administration against NMDA and malonate toxicity.

Malcon C, Kaddurah-Daouk R, Beal MF.
Source

Neurochemistry Laboratory, Neurology Service, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA.

Abstract

We examined whether creatine administration could exert neuroprotective effects against excitotoxicity mediated by N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA) and kainic acid. Oral administration of 1% creatine significantly attenuated striatal excitotoxic lesions produced by NMDA, but had no effect on lesions produced by AMPA or kainic acid. Both creatine and nicotinamide can exert significant protective effects against malonate-induced striatal lesions. We, therefore, examined whether nicotinamide could exert additive neuroprotective effects with creatine against malonate-induced lesions. Nicotinamide with creatine produced significantly better neuroprotection than creatine alone against malonate-induced lesions. Creatine can, therefore, produce significant neuroprotective effects against NMDA mediated excitotoxic lesions in vivo and the combination of nicotinamide with creatine exerts additive neuroprotective effects.

 

[VaughnTrue]

and the ULTIMATE reference...wikipedia:

NMDA is a water-soluble synthetic substance that is not normally found in biological tissue. It was first synthesized in 1960s. NMDA is an excitotoxin (it kills nerve cells by over-exciting them); this trait has applications in behavioral neuroscience research. The body of work utilizing this technique falls under the term "lesion studies." Researchers apply NMDA to specific regions of an (animal) subject's brain or spinal cord and subsequently test for the behavior of interest, such as operant behavior. If the behavior is compromised, it suggests the destroyed tissue was part of a brain region that made an important contribution to the normal expression of that behavior.
However, in lower quantities NMDA is not neurotoxic. In fact, normal operation of the NMDA receptor allows individuals to respond to excitatory stimuli through the interrelated functioning of NMDA receptors, glutamate, and dopamine.

Therefore the action of glutamate specifically through NMDA receptors can be investigated by injecting small quantities of NMDA into a certain region in the brain: for example, injection of NMDA in a brainstem region induces involuntary locomotion in cats and rats.

 

[VaughnTrue]

And heres an old favorite from "neuron" on bb.com...

Originally Posted by madchemist
the NMDA receptor is a voltage-gated channel which requires previous activation of the AMPA receptor for membrane depolarization

since the compound "NMDA" cannot agonize the AMPA receptor, its ability to activate the NMDA receptor would be limited, and so a direct neurotoxic effect will not likely occur from oral supplementation

if you take a neuron in a vacuum (en vitro), its normal electrical homeostasis is disrupted, and the NMDA receptor no longer is voltage gated. if you bath this neuron in NMDA, excitotoxicity will occur, whereas en vivo it can't

 

[yesuraj316]

Intimidate is 100 times much stronger than same amount of DAA

 

[VaughnTrue]

Intimidate is 100 times much stronger than same amount of DAA

oy vey, while i appreciate your support, this being your "wow strong first post" does look incredibly shady on iForce's end. Mods please verify that he is not sharing an IP address with any of my reps LOL

 

[Diesel0022]

Unless you have documentation on their methodology showing that they directly injected the NMDA, this abstract is making a case against your argument, if anything.

This remains unanswered, in regards to the study you post.

And:

 

[VaughnTrue]

This remains unanswered, in regards to the study you post.

And:

as does my request for you to post a single study that shows oral administered NMDA will induce neurotoxicity.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Ok, just got back. The bottom line is that we don't know what dose of oral NMDA can cause excitoxicity. Oral doses are far safer than injections into the brain because one of the primary functions of the BBB is to prevent excitoxic insult. I do not know how much NMDA penetrates the BBB per mg taken orally, but I do know that it will be less than an equivalent amount of DAA due to the active transport of AAs at the barrier. Assuming some methylation of DAA and conversion to NMDA in the brain (mediated endogenously of course), it's likely that the dose of NMDA provided by intimidate will be met through basic DAA supplementation (this assumes a 1% conversion rate). So, in my opinion, excitotoxicity is unlikely with intimidate.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Guess I'm glad I didn't bow out...

 

[criticalbench]

oy vey, while i appreciate your support, this being your "wow strong first post" does look incredibly shady on iForce's end. Mods please verify that he is not sharing an IP address with any of my reps LOL

damnit vaughn.. im busted

 

[criticalbench]

Ok, just got back. The bottom line is that we don't know what dose of oral NMDA can cause excitoxicity. Oral doses are far safer than injections into the brain because one of the primary functions of the BBB is to prevent excitoxic insult. I do not know how much NMDA penetrates the BBB per mg taken orally, but I do know that it will be less than an equivalent amount of DAA due to the active transport of AAs at the barrier. Assuming some methylation of DAA and conversion to NMDA in the brain (mediated endogenously of course), it's likely that the dose of NMDA provided by intimidate will be met through basic DAA supplementation (this assumes a 1% conversion rate). So, in my opinion, excitotoxicity is unlikely with intimidate.

One day, just one day im going to understand the words that come out of your mouth

Mike

 

[antihero]

So after a 4 week cycle of DAA, the following day I may start intimidate with no risks what so ever? Just being cautious.

I recommend taking an equal amount of time off between running the two. Running the two back to back would be equivalent (or dam close) to running one of them for 8 weeks.

 

[JonRubio]

I recommend taking an equal amount of time off between running the two. Running the two back to back would be equivalent (or dam close) to running one of them for 8 weeks.

Glad someone answered me. Thanks for the suggestion.