Intimidate or DAA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza

    Side effects of DAA in certain people can be quite harsh including acne, rise in the prolacting level and bloat...

    Now, who cares about a bit of bloat? But IMO Prolactine level rise IS something to be worried about haha, I don't have that with DAA though , yet some people claim it does happen!
    Dude my first week on daa is all fuked up. Was not able to get a nights sleep. It was like I spent the night takes 30 sec micro naps every 2 hrs
    GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/231867-man-sports-gameday.html#post4047619

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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Intimidate doesn't offer 100x the testosterone boosting capability that DAA does, that's impossible and we all know it.


    Since you HAVENT tried it, why don't we actually look at people who have compared the two? Each and every time they say one significantly outshines the other...


    Or perhaps we'll just sit here and keep scaring people about excitotoxicity yea there is NO evidence that oral NMDA will induce that, and evidence actually points the other way...which has been posted on this site 50x already. Please, use search function.
    Than why market it like that?

    And I have, In fact, I can send you a picture of the bottle with my username and the 4 caps left in it.

    Vaughn, bowing out would be the right thing to do. As the conversation would end when Coop answers my last question. Otherwise I have a few things to post in regards to NMDA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01 View Post
    Dude my first week on daa is all fuked up. Was not able to get a nights sleep. It was like I spent the night takes 30 sec micro naps every 2 hrs
    That's weird...I've been on Form-X (3g DAA) for more than 5 weeks and I got the total opposite effect from it, my sleep became slightly better and after adding Ergobolic I don't even need a sleep aid now haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
    Than why market it like that?

    And I have, In fact, I can send you a picture of the bottle with my username and the 4 caps left in it.

    Vaughn, bowing out would be the right thing to do. As the conversation would end when Coop answers my last question. Otherwise I have a few things to post in regards to NMDA.
    Coop doesn't oblige to people who just need to bash a company for their own opinions besides he has more class than to get his ego all bulked up and say "bow out" haha.

    If you know all this and think its true...Why don't you simply keep it as your opinion and don't take it for yourself again? Rather than starting a p1ssing contest with a Rep without any point or meaning whatsoever?

    Don't like it? don't take it !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Coop doesn't oblige to people who just need to bash a company for their own opinions besides he has more class than to get his ego all bulked up and say "bow out" haha.

    If you know all this and think its true...Why don't you simply keep it as your opinion and don't take it for yourself again? Rather than starting a p1ssing contest with a Rep without any point or meaning whatsoever?

    Don't like it? don't take it !
    I know Cyrus quite well, and I am not bashing Iforce. Vaughn/Loudy and the rest of crew have seen my support. But this is something either A. Needs to be known, or B. I need to be corrected on. Whatever the outcome, no respect is lost for Vaughn and his crew. Great guys with great products. But like I stated earlier, Id like to clear this up.

    Vaughn, if you would prefer to take this to PM or Email, Id be happy to do that as well.

    Edit- But you're right, I shouldnt have jumped like that and I apologize.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza

    That's weird...I've been on Form-X (3g DAA) for more than 5 weeks and I got the total opposite effect from it, my sleep became slightly better and after adding Ergobolic I don't even need a sleep aid now haha.
    Yeh. I did a search there r a few ppl that had the same prob. I must have gotten used to it now though
    GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/231867-man-sports-gameday.html#post4047619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
    Than why market it like that?

    And I have, In fact, I can send you a picture of the bottle with my username and the 4 caps left in it.

    Vaughn, bowing out would be the right thing to do. As the conversation would end when Coop answers my last question. Otherwise I have a few things to post in regards to NMDA.
    Please read iForce's write up on the product:

    UNLEASH ALL OUT WAR ON YOUR HPTA
    THE DRIVING FORCE OF INTIMIDATE!
    N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid (NMDA) is an amino acid derivative capable of causing an intensely anabolic response from NMDA receptors found within our bodies. NMDA receptors are designed to accept only certain compounds to connect to them, the most potent being NMDA. When NMDA binds to an NMDA receptor our HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis) is sent into overdrive.
    INTIMIDATE IS THE ONLY PRODUCT WITH 99.9% PURE NMDA!

    Enhanced sleep:
    Sleep is the one time of day that our body can recover, repair, and grow. By getting more restful sleep, your body will be able to repair and grow your muscles more efficiently than before.

    Increased Libido:
    One of the quickest signs that your body is in an anabolic state and ready for major fat loss and muscle gain!

    Mood Elevation:
    Activating NMDA receptors may help increase “feel good” chemicals in our bodies. Compounds such as Pregnenolone help us feel great throughout the day. Pregnenolone greatly increases in the presence of intense NMDA receptor activation.
    Long Term Memory:
    We each have both short term and long term memory we pull from. Short term memory is for things like remembering that cute girls name you met 20 minutes ago. Your brain allows you to store memories for a short time period, and then it discards them unless you activate certain receptors to initiate long term storage. These receptors just so happen to be NMDA receptors. When we activate our NMDA receptors, our brains are primed to convert short term memory into long term memory, which means things should be easier to remember, and easier to recall when needed!

    When it comes to the discovery of dietary supplements, iForce Nutrition has always pushed the boundaries and created the most unique and effective ingredients ever released. INTIMIDATE will push your body’s natural limits to new heights as you get bigger, stronger, faster, and leaner all at the same time. Don’t fall for the DAA hype, and use only the most pure and effective NMDA receptor activator on the planet…INTIMIDATE!


    http://iforcenutrition.com/intimidate.asp


    Please, show me evidence that suggests oral ingested NMDA will harm someone. Patrick Arnold agrees that it will not, as does every single person who has actually researched the ingredient.


    "Bow out"? LOL you're kidding me right? Jeeze...I didn't realize I couldn't disagree with an Axis Labs rep...man you guys are just too cool, looks like I should delete my account and start buying more axis labs products!
    **These statements have not been approved by the FDA.[/quote
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    Hey Diesel,

    Just in case you're a little nervous about using NMDA, take a look at what reverses direct nmda induced neurotoxicity(induced from direct brain application mind you...NOT oral...LOL

    Neuroprotective effects of creatine administration against NMDA and malonate toxicity.

    Malcon C, Kaddurah-Daouk R, Beal MF.
    Source

    Neurochemistry Laboratory, Neurology Service, Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA.

    Abstract

    We examined whether creatine administration could exert neuroprotective effects against excitotoxicity mediated by N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid (AMPA) and kainic acid. Oral administration of 1% creatine significantly attenuated striatal excitotoxic lesions produced by NMDA, but had no effect on lesions produced by AMPA or kainic acid. Both creatine and nicotinamide can exert significant protective effects against malonate-induced striatal lesions. We, therefore, examined whether nicotinamide could exert additive neuroprotective effects with creatine against malonate-induced lesions. Nicotinamide with creatine produced significantly better neuroprotection than creatine alone against malonate-induced lesions. Creatine can, therefore, produce significant neuroprotective effects against NMDA mediated excitotoxic lesions in vivo and the combination of nicotinamide with creatine exerts additive neuroprotective effects.
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    and the ULTIMATE reference...wikipedia:

    NMDA is a water-soluble synthetic substance that is not normally found in biological tissue. It was first synthesized in 1960s. NMDA is an excitotoxin (it kills nerve cells by over-exciting them); this trait has applications in behavioral neuroscience research. The body of work utilizing this technique falls under the term "lesion studies." Researchers apply NMDA to specific regions of an (animal) subject's brain or spinal cord and subsequently test for the behavior of interest, such as operant behavior. If the behavior is compromised, it suggests the destroyed tissue was part of a brain region that made an important contribution to the normal expression of that behavior.
    However, in lower quantities NMDA is not neurotoxic. In fact, normal operation of the NMDA receptor allows individuals to respond to excitatory stimuli through the interrelated functioning of NMDA receptors, glutamate, and dopamine.

    Therefore the action of glutamate specifically through NMDA receptors can be investigated by injecting small quantities of NMDA into a certain region in the brain: for example, injection of NMDA in a brainstem region induces involuntary locomotion in cats and rats.
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    And heres an old favorite from "neuron" on bb.com...

    Originally Posted by madchemist
    the NMDA receptor is a voltage-gated channel which requires previous activation of the AMPA receptor for membrane depolarization

    since the compound "NMDA" cannot agonize the AMPA receptor, its ability to activate the NMDA receptor would be limited, and so a direct neurotoxic effect will not likely occur from oral supplementation

    if you take a neuron in a vacuum (en vitro), its normal electrical homeostasis is disrupted, and the NMDA receptor no longer is voltage gated. if you bath this neuron in NMDA, excitotoxicity will occur, whereas en vivo it can't
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    Intimidate is 100 times much stronger than same amount of DAA
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    Quote Originally Posted by yesuraj316 View Post
    Intimidate is 100 times much stronger than same amount of DAA
    oy vey, while i appreciate your support, this being your "wow strong first post" does look incredibly shady on iForce's end. Mods please verify that he is not sharing an IP address with any of my reps LOL
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    Unless you have documentation on their methodology showing that they directly injected the NMDA, this abstract is making a case against your argument, if anything.
    This remains unanswered, in regards to the study you post.

    And:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel0022 View Post
    This remains unanswered, in regards to the study you post.

    And:

    as does my request for you to post a single study that shows oral administered NMDA will induce neurotoxicity.
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    Ok, just got back. The bottom line is that we don't know what dose of oral NMDA can cause excitoxicity. Oral doses are far safer than injections into the brain because one of the primary functions of the BBB is to prevent excitoxic insult. I do not know how much NMDA penetrates the BBB per mg taken orally, but I do know that it will be less than an equivalent amount of DAA due to the active transport of AAs at the barrier. Assuming some methylation of DAA and conversion to NMDA in the brain (mediated endogenously of course), it's likely that the dose of NMDA provided by intimidate will be met through basic DAA supplementation (this assumes a 1% conversion rate). So, in my opinion, excitotoxicity is unlikely with intimidate.
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Guess I'm glad I didn't bow out...
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    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    oy vey, while i appreciate your support, this being your "wow strong first post" does look incredibly shady on iForce's end. Mods please verify that he is not sharing an IP address with any of my reps LOL

    damnit vaughn.. im busted
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Ok, just got back. The bottom line is that we don't know what dose of oral NMDA can cause excitoxicity. Oral doses are far safer than injections into the brain because one of the primary functions of the BBB is to prevent excitoxic insult. I do not know how much NMDA penetrates the BBB per mg taken orally, but I do know that it will be less than an equivalent amount of DAA due to the active transport of AAs at the barrier. Assuming some methylation of DAA and conversion to NMDA in the brain (mediated endogenously of course), it's likely that the dose of NMDA provided by intimidate will be met through basic DAA supplementation (this assumes a 1% conversion rate). So, in my opinion, excitotoxicity is unlikely with intimidate.
    One day, just one day im going to understand the words that come out of your mouth

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonRubio

    So after a 4 week cycle of DAA, the following day I may start intimidate with no risks what so ever? Just being cautious.
    I recommend taking an equal amount of time off between running the two. Running the two back to back would be equivalent (or dam close) to running one of them for 8 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by antihero

    I recommend taking an equal amount of time off between running the two. Running the two back to back would be equivalent (or dam close) to running one of them for 8 weeks.
    Glad someone answered me. Thanks for the suggestion.
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    Keeping it classy as always coops. keep the information coming.
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    Even better why I am going the route of DAA.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Ok, just got back. The bottom line is that we don't know what dose of oral NMDA can cause excitoxicity. Oral doses are far safer than injections into the brain because one of the primary functions of the BBB is to prevent excitoxic insult. I do not know how much NMDA penetrates the BBB per mg taken orally, but I do know that it will be less than an equivalent amount of DAA due to the active transport of AAs at the barrier. Assuming some methylation of DAA and conversion to NMDA in the brain (mediated endogenously of course), it's likely that the dose of NMDA provided by intimidate will be met through basic DAA supplementation (this assumes a 1% conversion rate). So, in my opinion, excitotoxicity is unlikely with intimidate.
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    Oh really?

    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Intimidate: Week 4 Final Review

    I have 2-3 scoops left of Intimidate (NDMA), so I'll offer my final review. Having tried quite a few DAA based products in the past, I can say with confidence that NDMA is far more potent in many categories and I'll explain. First, and just to get it out of the way, NO, I did not gain 4-5lbs in a month, nor did I expect too. But what I did experience far exceeds that of any other DAA supp that I've tried to date. My first two weeks on NDMA, I experienced what I normally experience on test boosters, a rise in libido and I felt more rested than usual. Now the third week (at least for me) is where this ingredient really separates itself from the pack. In terms of sleep, I felt more rested on a consistent basis, meaning better recovery, which allowed me to train far longer than I had been the previous two weeks. In terms of libido, this scores a perfect 20/10, as from the third week on, my libido has nothing short of amazing. I'm talking about everyday, all day amazing. I've yet to try anything else that comes this close. In terms of raw strength improvements, this occurred for me in the third week. As noted I doubled up on pull-ups and other exercises, some in the neighborhood of a 10-15lbs improvement, which for me is substantial, based on the fact that I perform a lot of cardio and strength isn't always where it needs to be for me, NDMA certainly helped me in that regard. I was able to add an additional pound, with no change in diet. I eat the same things everyday and have been for months, so I can only attribute any and all gains to NDMA. I leaned out around my shoulders and chest, my back appears wider, and arms appear thicker, this is all based on mirror observations and feedback from training partners. Would I recommend NDMA? Hell yes, at least where DAA comparisons are concerned. DAA normally causes stomach issues for me, NDMA however, does not. I'd like to thank Iforce for allowing me the opportunity to test run Intimidate and I'd highly recommend this DAA supp over all others that I've tried.

    Strength: 10/10 - observed in week 3
    Sleep: 10/10 - observed in week two
    Libido: 20/10 - Weeks 3 and 4...AMAZING
    Additional Mass - 7/10 Compared to other DAA supps that I've tried, this beats them all hands down. Again I didn't add 4-5lbs, but I also didn't expect too. For me 1LB of additional mass is welcome, with the added benefit of remaining lean. I've always been a hard gainer, as I'm insulin resistant.


    Final Summary: Best DAA product that I've tried to date. T
    hanks again to Iforce for the opportunity.



    This is one of many comparisons between the two ingredients.
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    Bump. I will be trying Intimidate now ! Been thru a few tubs of DAA. It really works if you take off 2-3 weeks in btw uses ( for me personally). Thanks!
    Also, can I use Erase w/ Intimidate ? And what about Shift ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikeNball View Post
    Bump. I will be trying Intimidate now ! Been thru a few tubs of DAA. It really works if you take off 2-3 weeks in btw uses ( for me personally). Thanks!
    Also, can I use Erase w/ Intimidate ? And what about Shift ?
    yes and yes
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikeNball View Post
    Bump. I will be trying Intimidate now ! Been thru a few tubs of DAA. It really works if you take off 2-3 weeks in btw uses ( for me personally). Thanks!
    Also, can I use Erase w/ Intimidate ? And what about Shift ?

    Erase + Intimidate sounds awesome! I have not used erase with intimidate yet; my best run with intimidate + reversitol v.2 + testabolan v.2. Best pct I have ever had.

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    I used tcf1 daa and Prurus labs daa both worked I had better success with tcf1 though maybe the liquid vade delivery ..

    However I did like daa but their was one side I got and that was bloat from both I used them both with erase aswell ..

    For this reason I am looking forward to using intimidate and I don't think the price is much of a difference unless you really are poor 30 quid for a month supply that will do me.

    Plus I like the fact intimidate is just one pill before sleep as I work nights so that's a plus for me
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