[Whacked]

The other thread is trashed...

So let's try again.

Thoughts? Feedback?

I read the mechanisms involved. They are largely based on glucose metabolism/modulation (post-prandial). So, would this not work as well for the keto crowd since we don't ingest a bunch of carbs anyway?

I also ran across this this study on adverse homocysteine levels imparted by Chlorogenic Acid http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11237928

[Royd The Noyd]

Thank you. There are a couple studies on Svetol which is a caffeine free form of Green Coffee Bean extract that contains a high percentage of chlorogenic acid. Interestingly the human study showed positive weight loss effects in overweight people. But the rat study conducted later did not.

I didn't know that homocysteine thing. Got a reference?

[Whacked]

Only reference I have is the Pub Med link I posted

I didn't know that homocysteine thing. Got a reference?

[Royd The Noyd]

Only reference I have is the Pub Med link I posted

Weird I don't think that was there when I first posted

[Whacked]

ALL good haha

[RecompMan]

i like chlorogenic acid, i dont use more then 500mg of it (1g green coffe bean 50%).

not necessary IMO.

7 oxo works better at 200mg per day. Easily put into a nice topical. However topically youll notice an effect locally rather then all around.

200mg 7 oxo orally is nice as well.

for chlorogenic acid it also effects the 11b HSD1 which happens to be a good thing since its expression is in excess during high stress times.

[Royd The Noyd]

i like chlorogenic acid, i dont use more then 500mg of it (1g green coffe bean 50%).

not necessary IMO.

7 oxo works better at 200mg per day. Easily put into a nice topical. However topically youll notice an effect locally rather then all around.

200mg 7 oxo orally is nice as well.

for chlorogenic acid it also effects the 11b HSD1 which happens to be a good thing since its expression is in excess during high stress times.

How does a systemic drug act locally?

[RecompMan]

How does a systemic drug act locally?

probqbly should have been more specific,

The effects of topical 7 oxo, is more pronounced where you apply rather then all over your body.

[Whacked]

Makes sense. Same logic as "Clenviscerate"

Back OT: Can anyone answer my question?


"""I read the mechanisms involved. They are largely based on glucose metabolism/modulation (post-prandial). So, would this not work as well for the keto crowd since we don't ingest a bunch of carbs anyway?""

How does a systemic drug act locally?

probqbly should have been more specific,

The effects of topical 7 oxo, is more pronounced where you apply rather then all over your body.

[RecompMan]

it will still work for a keto crowd due to the effects on cortisol, especially in the begining phase of the ketogenic diet.

im unsure of its affect on PI3K/Akt so i cant answer its effect on insuline secretion as of yet if its function is a purporse of blocked digestion.

If it reduces Akt then you reduce adipogenisis. Stearic acid and other saturated fats increase Akt (similar to the way carb and insulin interact with PI3K/Akt pathway). So if it affect Akt thn yes it will be a positive effect as itll repress adipogenesis in presense of a high fat diet.

But there are also other thinks like the ERK1/2 pathway phosphorylation. so there are many mechanisms that need to be looked at before we can truely see.

[Royd The Noyd]

it will still work for a keto crowd due to the effects on cortisol, especially in the begining phase of the ketogenic diet.

im unsure of its affect on PI3K/Akt so i cant answer its effect on insuline secretion as of yet if its function is a purporse of blocked digestion.

If it reduces Akt then you reduce adipogenisis. Stearic acid and other saturated fats increase Akt (similar to the way carb and insulin interact with PI3K/Akt pathway). So if it affect Akt thn yes it will be a positive effect as itll repress adipogenesis in presense of a high fat diet.

But there are also other thinks like the ERK1/2 pathway phosphorylation. so there are many mechanisms that need to be looked at before we can truely see.

Clen is systemic.

When has chlorogenic acid been shown to reduce cortisol? And in what tissue? The only way it helps at the beginning is that it may get you to ketosis faster is if you are eating carbohydrates. Which nobody does at the start of a Keto diet.

Whacked its not very useful, like you thought, in that circumstance. Unless it has other MOA's, but the latest green coffee Bean extract study that everyone was excited about indicated its primary moa is as a "carb blocker"

[Whacked]

Phaseolamine (white northern kidney bean extract) does that quite well via amylase inhibition and we all know how well that all went

. Unless it has other MOA's, but the latest green coffee Bean extract study that everyone was excited about indicated its primary moa is as a "carb blocker"

[RecompMan]

Clen is systemic.

When has chlorogenic acid been shown to reduce cortisol? And in what tissue? The only way it helps at the beginning is that it may get you to ketosis faster is if you are eating carbohydrates. Which nobody does at the start of a Keto diet.

Whacked its not very useful, like you thought, in that circumstance. Unless it has other MOA's, but the latest green coffee Bean extract study that everyone was excited about indicated its primary moa is as a "carb blocker"

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/e...ea0028p189.htm

[RecompMan]

Clen is systemic.

When has chlorogenic acid been shown to reduce cortisol? And in what tissue? The only way it helps at the beginning is that it may get you to ketosis faster is if you are eating carbohydrates. Which nobody does at the start of a Keto diet.

Whacked its not very useful, like you thought, in that circumstance. Unless it has other MOA's, but the latest green coffee Bean extract study that everyone was excited about indicated its primary moa is as a "carb blocker"

G6P Translocase Inhibitors Block Microsomal 11 ?-HSD1 Activity-- To determine whether microsomal 11 ?-HSD1 activity was dependent on transport-dependent G6P uptake/metabolism we examined 11 ?-HSD1 activity in whole microsomes with and without specific inhibitors of G6P uptake (chlorogenic acid or phlorizin). As an additional control for the specificity of G6P transport/metabolism, we tested the effect of an alternative sugar phosphate (galactose-1-phosphate). As shown using liver microsomes (Fig. 7), chlorogenic acid caused a 96% decrease in G6P-stimulated 11 ?-HSD1 activity, whereas Gal-1-P was ineffective

http://m.jbc.org/content/281/1/341.full

[Whacked]

Good stuff EBF!

Here is the antithesis of a scientic post but.......

Amazon.com rated the stuff VERY POORLY.

[Royd The Noyd]

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/e...ea0028p189.htm

That's okay, but both groups saw significant losses in abdominal fat, and waist circumference...suggesting the 11beta-hsd inhibition negligible.

[Whacked]

Wouldn't that suggest the polar opposite? I was under the impression that cortisol-related lipogenesis did in fact present as fat accumulation in the abdominal region aka truncal obesity.

That's okay, but both groups saw significant losses in abdominal fat, and waist circumference...suggesting the 11beta-hsd inhibition negligible.

[Royd The Noyd]

Wouldn't that suggest the polar opposite? I was under the impression that cortisol-related lipogenesis did in fact present as fat accumulation in the abdominal region aka truncal obesity.

No because they found no decrease in urinary cortisol in the black coffee group. They actually saw an increase. But both groups saw significant statistical fat loss. I don't have the full text though so maybe there is something else in there. It's a weird journal. Not on pubmed or medline.

[Whacked]

Is urinary decrease or increase necessarily the be all end all "proof' that cortisol levels have been manipultated? Thanks

[Royd The Noyd]

Is urinary decrease or increase necessarily the be all end all "proof' that cortisol levels have been manipultated? Thanks

It's suggestive. That's really all though.

[Geoforce]

What about God though?

Just playing, good stuff so far guys, very informative. Subbed to read more later!

[Whacked]

If I was a mod, Id bad you

BACK OT PLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

haha

What about God though?

Just playing, good stuff so far guys, very informative. Subbed to read more later!

[Geoforce]

If I was a mod, Id bad you

BACK OT PLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

haha

Lol if that comment gets this thread off track I'll self ban myself! Only product I have used with GCB extract is Abliderate Advanced.

[Whacked]

LOL

topicals have their place but this is a whole diff animal as you know

[Geoforce]

LOL

topicals have their place but this is a whole diff animal as you know

Certainly. Was simply saying that I haven't had any time to do my usual experiments by me taking the the product! It is certainly interesting though and something I may experiment more with in the future. I like some of the reading in this thread so far, I'm learning!