stupid question about ephedra

[bill86]

so my friend and i were having an argument yesterday over ephedra and your heart. his argument was that ephedra is actually good for your heart, because it increases your heart rate, and therefore strengthens your heart (he said its the same as doing cardio because 'your heart doesnt know the difference between beating fast from ephedra or beating fast from doing physical activity)... i said that was stupid, but really had no retort, can someone help clarify this for me?

i compared it to caffeine, which he said is only bad for your heart in high doses bc its a vasoconstrictor, thus can increase blood pressure. he argued that ephedra isnt a vasoconstrictor and just increases your heart rate, and, 'anything that increases your heart rate will strengthen your heart'. my only response was that it doesnt help your respiratory system like cardio, but that doesnt really have to do with the strength of ones heart.

am i the stupid one here? it just didnt seem to make sense to me, but i couldnt articulate why. can you strengthen your heart by taking something that increases your heart rate similar to cardio, without the cardio?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor in some areas and a vasodilator in others. Ephedrine is not good for your heart and I'd actually avoid using it if obese or with a history of cardiac issues, mostly due to b2/b3 homology.

 

[DJBeanPole]

so my friend and i were having an argument yesterday over ephedra and your heart. his argument was that ephedra is actually good for your heart, because it increases your heart rate, and therefore strengthens your heart (he said its the same as doing cardio because 'your heart doesnt know the difference between beating fast from ephedra or beating fast from doing physical activity)... i said that was stupid, but really had no retort, can someone help clarify this for me?

Ongoing tachycardia is not good at all. So if we were to pace your buddies heart at 200bpm and tell him "it's ok bud, this is going to strengthen your heart" he'd be down with that? Nonsense. Your heart would eventually give out. I've seen too many patients in the hospital that are shocked out of tachycardia because of this.

 

[bill86]

thats what i thought, but he was trying to say that it would only get to like 130bpm.

and re: the obesity issue, i raised the SAME thing, but he said doctors actually prescribe ephedra to obese patients to help them lose weight. he said 'they would rather have them sitting at home burning calories on the couch than not burning calories at all, so ephedra is like cardio for people too lazy to do cardio, and is therefore good for obese patients'.

we argue all the time about this type of stuff, and after asking knowledgeable people, im almost always right, i just never know how to explain it or argue it well enough, so he always ends up being 'right' in our debates because i end up having to concede, haha.


could you briefly explain that b2/b3 homology issue in laymans terms?

ive only taken ephedra once (when it was in hydroxycut and i was like 18), i felt like i was going to have a heart attack at the gym so i never took it again. but does it REALLY get your heart rate that high? i dont remember it last THAT long, but, how long do the effects usually last? (trying to compare to a 30-45 min. cardio session).

just kind of nervous with DJ's response, because i just started cardio around January whilst trying to improve blood pressure. needless to say, after never doing it, im in horrible cardiovascular shape and often after running (during HIIT) my heart rate will be as high as 180 (only for a couple of minutes, of course, but if i were to just attempt to run the whole time, i guess it would stay that high, which kind of scares me, hence HIIT or brisk walking/light jogging)

 

[bill86]

thank you for the responses, but on another note, our whole argument arose over me saying i dont want to take anything with regard to fat burners bc of their impact on your heart (and, for someone like my who's trying to watch their blood pressure, i try to stay away from most supplements geared towards energy/fat burning altogether unless it's a very low dose PWO or something). but is there anything out there that actually WORKS to help burn more fat? ive been stagnant in fat loss despite mixing up cardio and diet, and have tried l-carnitine and stuff like that to no avail. also, i tried dosing a lot of BCAA's while cutting calories in hopes of sparing muscle, but still seemed to lose equally all around.

thanks for the help guys!

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

I firmly believe chronic use of ephedrine (with caffeine and sometimes aspirin/yohimbe) AND clen caused me to have heart problems. I can't say for sure, but this is what I believe. I for sure say its BAD for your heart in my opinion, but it for sure isn't GOOD for your heart....of that I am certain....

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

7 spray and 11 spray, GDA's, ALA, reduce XT, anything anti-estrogen, all worked for me as far as partitioning/fat burning goes (manipulating my diet is numero uno of course)....and I am the same as you, I avoid anything that is a stim like its the plague. I do take things that raise my BP, but I try to take Rx BP meds with high dose hawthorn to offset that part.

 

[DJBeanPole]

just kind of nervous with DJ's response, because i just started cardio around January whilst trying to improve blood pressure. needless to say, after never doing it, im in horrible cardiovascular shape and often after running (during HIIT) my heart rate will be as high as 180 (only for a couple of minutes, of course, but if i were to just attempt to run the whole time, i guess it would stay that high, which kind of scares me, hence HIIT or brisk walking/light jogging)

I wouldn't sweat it too much. Its natural for your heart rate to stay that high after that kind of exercise. Mine does the same thing. It usually takes a few minutes before it comes back down to baseline. If it were to stay there for a prolonged period of time, without any explanation, while you were just lounging on a couch... then you have something to be worried about.

 

[bill86]

ah, gotcha, thanks. yeah, mine usually comes back down to the 130's within the first minute of stopping the 'interval' and beginning to walk, i was just scared i may be spiking my blood pressure too high, although with the supplement regimen ive been on, it seems to have been in the normal range for some weeks now, but im still cautious about it though.