best ingredient for cortisol control

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  1. I was going to throw my hat in and vote Erase (original formula) primary ingredient - Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione.

    But after reading the entire thread and seeing ashwaghanda, DHEA, 7-Keto DHEA etc I use another product that contains all these in one formula, although I didnt buy it for cortisol control.

    The product: High Energy Labs HGH Complete

    Ingredients:
    Secretagen Proprietary Growth Enhancer/Releaser Complex: Tribulus )Tribulus terrestris) fruit extract, GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid), Asddhwaganda (Withaniasmnifera), (root), Alpha GPC (L-alpha-glycerylphosphosphroylcholine) , Mucuna Pruriens (bean extract )[15%] L-Dopa, Maca (Lepidium meyenill) (root), 7KETO (3-aceetyl-7-oxo dehydroepiandrosterone), Micronized DHEA (Dehydroepiandronsterone), Zinc (as OpticZinc), MSM (Methyl-Sulfonyl-Methane), Copper Citrate, Melatonin, Chromium Polynicotinate (as Chromemate)

    Proprietary Antioxidant Complex: Ascorbic acid (Vit C), Alpha Lipoic Acid SOD (Superoxide Dismutase) Citrus Bioflavonoids, CoEnzyme Q-10

    Now I just bought it and it hasnt arrived yet in the mail so I'm hoping once it arrives that all those ingredients do the trick, especially if I keep taking Erase.
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  2. Free Test contains 25 mg of Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione per capsule- we use 3,7-Oxo DHEA as the nomenclature for the compound, mostly because a couple of our larger retailers saw Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione on the label and freaked out, because they thought it was a prohormone instead of a natural aromatase inhibitor, lol....
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  3. Quote Originally Posted by BrainyMuscle View Post
    I was going to throw my hat in and vote Erase (original formula) primary ingredient - Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione.

    But after reading the entire thread and seeing ashwaghanda, DHEA, 7-Keto DHEA etc I use another product that contains all these in one formula, although I didnt buy it for cortisol control.

    The product: High Energy Labs HGH Complete

    Ingredients:
    Secretagen Proprietary Growth Enhancer/Releaser Complex: Tribulus )Tribulus terrestris) fruit extract, GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid), Asddhwaganda (Withaniasmnifera), (root), Alpha GPC (L-alpha-glycerylphosphosphroylcholine) , Mucuna Pruriens (bean extract )[15%] L-Dopa, Maca (Lepidium meyenill) (root), 7KETO (3-aceetyl-7-oxo dehydroepiandrosterone), Micronized DHEA (Dehydroepiandronsterone), Zinc (as OpticZinc), MSM (Methyl-Sulfonyl-Methane), Copper Citrate, Melatonin, Chromium Polynicotinate (as Chromemate)

    Proprietary Antioxidant Complex: Ascorbic acid (Vit C), Alpha Lipoic Acid SOD (Superoxide Dismutase) Citrus Bioflavonoids, CoEnzyme Q-10

    Now I just bought it and it hasnt arrived yet in the mail so I'm hoping once it arrives that all those ingredients do the trick, especially if I keep taking Erase.
    I highly doubt that product contains effective doses of any...thing.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd

    I highly doubt that product contains effective doses of any...thing.
    Exactly what I was thinking
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  5. Glycyrrhetinic acid

    EDIT: Not the best, but hasn't been mentioned before.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Directly below relates to DHEA, but at the bottom it shows how the 7-Keto analogues share the same characteristics-look at the very bottom in bold for the receptor physiology- it doesn't paint the total picture, but shows how the molecular structures interact and why 7-Ketosteroids have an affinity for 11b-HSD:

    "Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is freely available in Northern America and taken as an additive hormone for general well being. DHEA has been reported to exert "anti-glucocorticoid" effects by lowering blood glucose levels and improving insulin sensitivity in obese rodents and humans, resembling the effects of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma (PPARγ) ligands; however, the underlying mechanisms are not fully understood. In differentiated 3T3-L1 adipocytes and in white adipose tissue and in liver of C57BL/6J mice, we found that DHEA causes down-regulation of 11β-HSD1 (the enzyme responsible for the local reactivation of glucocorticoids) and dose-dependent reduction of its reductase activity. Hexose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase was also down-regulated in these cells and tissues. The effects of DHEA were comparable with those of the PPARγ agonist rosiglitazone but not additive. Analysis of the transcription factors involved in the DHEA-dependent regulation of 11β-HSD1 expression revealed a switch in CCAAT/enhancer-binding protein (C/EBP) expression. C/EBPα, a potent activator of 11β-HSD1 gene transcription, was down-regulated in 3T3-L1 adipocytes and in liver and adipose tissue of DHEA-treated mice, whereas C/EBPβ and C/EBPδ, attenuating the effect of C/EBPα, were unchanged or elevated. Our results further suggest a protective effect of DHEA on adipose tissue by up-regulating PPARα and down-regulating leptin, thereby contributing to the reduced expression of 11β-HSD1.
    We also investigated effects of DHEA on 11β-HSD2-dependent glucocorticoid inactivation in cells and animal models. DHEA treatment markedly increased mRNA expression and activity of 11β-HSD2 in RCCD2 rat renal cortical collecting duct cells and in kidneys of C57BL/6J mice and Sprague-Dawley rats. DHEA-treated rats tended to have reduced urinary corticosterone to 11-dehydrocorticosterone ratios. The effect of DHEA on 11β-HSD2 is likely due to altered transcriptional regulation. It involves activation of the PI3K/Akt pathway and a shift of the ratio of C/EBP expression from C/EBPα to C/EBPβ, primarily as a result of increased C/EBPβ mRNA and protein expression. C/EBPα and C/EBPβ differentially regulate the expression of 11β-HSD1 and 11β-HSD2. The DHEA-induced decrease of the ratio of active to inactive glucocorticoids provides a possible explanation for the anti-glucocorticoid effects of DHEA.

    Related publications:
    Apostolova G, Schweizer RA, Balazs Z, Kostadinova RM, Odermatt A, Dehydroepiandrosterone Inhibits the Amplification of Glucocorticoid Action in Adipose Tissue. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2005 May;288(5):E957-64.
    Balazs Z, Schweizer RAS, Frey FJ, Jeanrenaud-Rohner F, and Odermatt A, Dehydroepiandrosterone induces the expression and activity of 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 2 in the kidney by acting on CCAAT/enhancer binding proteins. J Am Soc Nephrol 2008 Jan; 19(1):92-101.



    Alternative substrates for 11β-HSD1

    Rapid hepatic metabolism of 7-ketocholesterol by 11β-HSD1

    We demonstrated a role for 11β-HSD1 in the metabolism of 7-ketocholesterol (7KC), one of the major dietary oxysterols. Comparison of recombinant 11β-HSD1, transiently expressed in human embryonic kidney 293 cells, revealed the stereo-specific formation of 7β-hydroxycholesterol from 7KC by rat and human 11β-HSD1, whereas the hamster enzyme formed 7α-hydroxycholesterol and 7β-hydroxycholesterol. While lysates efficiently catalyzed both oxidation and reduction, intact cells exclusively reduced 7KC. These findings were confirmed using rat and hamster liver homogenates, intact rat hepatocytes, and intact hamster liver tissue slices. Reduction of 7KC was abolished upon inhibition of 11β-HSD1.
    In vivo, after gavage feeding rats, 7KC rapidly appeared in the liver and was converted to 7β-hydroxycholesterol. Carbenoxolone significantly decreased the ratio of 7β-hydroxycholesterol to 7KC, indicating 11β-HSD1-dependent reduction of 7KC to 7β-hydroxycholesterol. Upon inhibition of 11β-HSD1 by carbenoxolone, 7KC tended to accumulate in the liver, and plasma 7KC concentration increased. Together, 11β-HSD1 efficiently catalyzes the first step in the rapid hepatic metabolism of dietary 7KC, which may explain why dietary 7KC has little or no effect on the development of atherosclerosis.

    Related publication:
    Schweizer, R. A. S., Zürcher, M., Balazs, Z., Dick, B., and Odermatt, A. (2004) Rapid Hepatic Metabolism of 7-Ketocholesterol by 11β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase Type 1. J. Biol. Chem., 279, 18415-18424.



    The role of H6PDH in the 11β-HSD1-dependent metabolism of 7-keto- and 7β-hydroxy-neurosteroids

    Several studies suggest that 7-keto- and 7-hydroxysteroids exert neuroprotective, anti-glucocorticoid and immune-modulatory effects. We recently demonstrated that 11β-HSD1 functions in a reversible way and efficiently catalyzes the interconversion of 7-keto- and 7-hydroxyneurosteroids in intact cells. In the presence of H6PDH, 11β-HSD1 predominantly converted 7-keto-DHEA and 7-ketopregnenolone into their corresponding 7β-hydroxy metabolites, indicating a role for H6PDH and 11β-HSD1 in the local generation of 7β-hydroxyneurosteroids. 3D-structural modeling offered an explanation for the preferred formation of 7β-hydroxyneurosteroids. Our results from experiments determining the steady state concentrations of glucocorticoids or 7-oxygenated neurosteroids suggested that the equilibrium between cortisone and cortisol and between 7-keto- and 7-hydroxyneurosteroids is regulated by 11β-HSD1 and greatly depends on the coexpression with H6PDH. Thus, the impact of H6PDH on 11β-HSD1 activity has to be considered for understanding both glucocorticoid and neurosteroid action in different tissues. The A ring of 7β-hydroxy-DHEA (7β-OH-DHEA) is oriented towards the interior of 11β-HSD1. The C7β-hydroxyl in 7β-hydroxy-DHEA superimposes nicely on the C11β-hydroxyl in corticosterone with equal predicted distances to C4 of the nicotinamide ring and the hydroxyl of the catalytic tyrosine.

    Related publication:Nashev LG, Chandsawangbhuwana C, Balazs Z, Atanasov AG, Dick B, Frey FJ, Baker ME, and Odermatt A. Hexose-6-phosphate Dehydrogenase Modulates 11β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase Type 1-dependent Metabolism of 7-keto- and 7β-hydroxyneurosteroids PloS ONE 2007 Jun 27; 2:e561.
    Thanks Boss!







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  7. I just finished a month's run of HGH Complete. I wasn't looking for cortisol management per se; I picked it based on positive reviews for OTC muscle growth which worked to an extent for me. I gained some nice upper body growth.

    Since HGH Complete uses a proprietary blend its not easy to figure out how much of each ingredient it contains. The only reason I stopped was the cost -- I paid $44 for it at bodybuilding.com although a search using NextTag listed it as low as $29 at All Star Health.

    Since I'm about to start AndroDrive I'll hold off on HGH Complete until after I finish 2 months of AD. After the AD I'll go back to DAA, Erase Pro and HGH Complete and Sustain Alpha.

  8. hey guys I love l dopa supps. I ve taken powerful, hghup, igf2. I ve gotten really nice strenght gains from all of them. Does anyone get scared that manipulating your l dopa levels is dangerous? I ve heard that since this isn t synthetic l dopa it s safe.

    Also i ve seen that daa has become pretty popular and i ve read that it def can increase your test. But i ve also heard that it can increase your estrogen lvls as well to where it kinda isn t worth it. Any thoughts on this guys. Thanks for your time guys.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by irocadiext View Post
    hey guys I love l dopa supps. I ve taken powerful, hghup, igf2. I ve gotten really nice strenght gains from all of them. Does anyone get scared that manipulating your l dopa levels is dangerous? I ve heard that since this isn t synthetic l dopa it s safe.

    Also i ve seen that daa has become pretty popular and i ve read that it def can increase your test. But i ve also heard that it can increase your estrogen lvls as well to where it kinda isn t worth it. Any thoughts on this guys. Thanks for your time guys.
    You should be cycling off L-dopa. Time on < time off, really. Also, you should consider using 5htp and egcg while using l-dopa. lastly, mucuna pruriens, not l-dopa (yes, there is an important distinction), has evidence that it increases T levels in healthy humans. I have seen zero evidence that it raises estrogen

  10. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    You should be cycling off L-dopa. Time on < time off, really. Also, you should consider using 5htp and egcg while using l-dopa. lastly, mucuna pruriens, not l-dopa (yes, there is an important distinction), has evidence that it increases T levels in healthy humans. I have seen zero evidence that it raises estrogen
    ^^ Coop hit the nail on the head.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Glycyrrhetinic acid

    EDIT: Not the best, but hasn't been mentioned before.

    hmm.. interesting.

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    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative

  12. Endoamp max

  13. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    7-keto (Reduce XT), 5-AT, ashwaghanda, and sutherlandia fructescens are all good options
    So if I used 7 keto for short term cortisol control, I would dose something like 500mg AM upon waking and another 500mg pre bed? Would this have any effect on strength workouts mid day? My bench and a few other compound lifts have gone down and I think it may be related to cortisol creating a catabolic environment

  14. Anyone still use Vitamin C?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2
    Anyone still use Vitamin C?
    Does that actually work?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa

    Does that actually work?
    I wouldn't waist my time or money.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2 View Post
    Anyone still use Vitamin C?
    It really doesn't work in weight training populations unless you're overtraining

  18. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    It really doesn't work in weight training populations unless you're overtraining
    Is there evidence that vitamin c and patethine help reduce the conversion of dhea to cortisol?
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    It really doesn't work in weight training populations unless you're overtraining
    Has it been tested for cortisol modulation in weight training populations?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    Has it been tested for cortisol modulation in weight training populations?
    Yes. And found to hinder recovery.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Yes. And found to hinder recovery.
    Was that because of effects on cortisol or more related to its antioxidant capability? I ask because I will resuming weight training in a month or so and need to manage cortisol during and post training. If vitamin C is likely to increase cortisol in weight training populations then I won't take it before and post workout.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa

    So if I used 7 keto for short term cortisol control, I would dose something like 500mg AM upon waking and another 500mg pre bed? Would this have any effect on strength workouts mid day? My bench and a few other compound lifts have gone down and I think it may be related to cortisol creating a catabolic environment
    Bump on this?

  23. Can I take endoamp max with reduce xt?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    Was that because of effects on cortisol or more related to its antioxidant capability? I ask because I will resuming weight training in a month or so and need to manage cortisol during and post training. If vitamin C is likely to increase cortisol in weight training populations then I won't take it before and post workout.
    It favors a pro-oxidative environment and disrupts the hormetic response to resistance training, dose-dependently of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    Bump on this?
    You sure you mean that much 7-keto? It wouldn't affect strength and it's probably due to diet and not cortisol.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by pressureSpike View Post
    Can I take endoamp max with reduce xt?
    You can try it but proceed with caution. If you're not on some joint support + fish oil, I'd probably use the two separately.

  26. No problem will do thanks again

  27. I'd never heard anyone say anything bad about vitamin C. Google vitamin C cortisol and it's all positive about reducing cortisol.

  28. hey mr cooper thanks for your reply. Maybe i was unclear when i wrote earlier. i was asking if DAA increases estrogen to a lvl where the balance of that estrogen increase is higher than the test increase making it not worth it, not l dopa supplements. For l dopa supps i was asking if people were scared of them.

    I mean increasing l dopa is kinda manipulating brain chemistry in way. But yes i love l dopa supps and def cycle of them after a bottle or two. again thanks for your reply.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by irocadiext View Post
    hey mr cooper thanks for your reply. Maybe i was unclear when i wrote earlier. i was asking if DAA increases estrogen to a lvl where the balance of that estrogen increase is higher than the test increase making it not worth it, not l dopa supplements. For l dopa supps i was asking if people were scared of them.

    I mean increasing l dopa is kinda manipulating brain chemistry in way. But yes i love l dopa supps and def cycle of them after a bottle or two. again thanks for your reply.
    It's tough to tell since the study did not examine this aspect. Of the bloodwork I've seen, the T:E either generally improves or stays the same. Thus, taking an AI with DAA can make DAA work that much better.
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