what is causing my gyno: PLEASE HELP!

bubbatar

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I have mild gyno from a previous cycle cut very short that was about 3 years ago. I started taking compound 20 for about 5 days and liked the effects but I thought it was worsening my gyno. I took jack3d one of the days, which has dmaa in it, and stopped it just in case it was worsening it as well. It has been about 10 days and I have started taking agmatine sulfate at 1 gram/day, citrulline malate at 6 grams/day, beta alanine at 4.5 grams/day and creatine at 5 grams per day. I am also using glycergrow but only the past 3 days because it just arrived. Basically something is aggraviting my gyno and I have not found out what. I have searched for all of what I am currently taking, which is in bold, and the only thing I could find was someone said creatine gave them gyno which I had never heard of and havent had problems with in the past. Thank you for the help.
 
NYiron

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The only thing you have listed that i could think of possibly having an effect would be glycergrow. The glycerol molecule is linking with hyper-hydration within the body (Wingo, Casa, Berger, Dellis, Knight & McClung, 2004). This excess extracellular water could be the culprit for an appearance of aggravated gyno due to the softened/bloated appearance caused by excess subcutaneous water. Along with that the glycerol molecule is the back bone of triglycerides, but i was not able to find any studies to support any claims. Other than that how is your diet? Are you intaking any excess sodium, saturated fats, calories that could contribute to bloat and or body fat accumulation? As an accumulation of body fat (adipose tissue) will increase the presence of "Cytochrome P450-dependent aromatase and 17βHSD", "two enzymes that are highly expressed in adipose tissue stromal cells and preadipocytes (Kershaw & Flier, 2004)." Also any products or foods that could contain and contribute to a build up of psuedo estrogens?

Wingo, J., Casa, D., Berger, E., Dellis, W., Knight, C., & McClung, J. (2004). Influence of a pre-exercise glycerol hydration beverage on performance and physiological function during mountain-bike races in the heat. Retrieved from .ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419512/

Kershaw, E., & Flier, J. (2004, June). Adipose tissue as an endocrine organ. Retrieved from jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/6/2548.long

edit: pardon the references as it would not allow me to post the links in full within my references due to my lack of posts so if investigation into the articles is desired just add necessary preceding www or http
 
Resolve

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Glycerol decreases subcutaneous water by causing systemic serum net-reabsorption. I.e. hyper-hydration associated with glycerol intake is thought to occur by increasing blood water content.

Any number of things could be affecting your gyno, OP. Stressed? Lots of caffeine? Tea tree oil shampoo? Primordial Performance wrote a good article a while back on the numerous factors that could affect your gyno - google it, it's worth the read. :)
 
NYiron

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Indeed resolve, increased blood water content is what is associated with glycerol. In the spirit of causing his problems i was trouble shooting and involving negative feedback loops associated with the increased water saturation if he is already properly hydrated. The hyper hydrating effect will inevitably cause varying levels of spill over intracellularly and extracellularly when saturation points push the levels of homeostasis.
 
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Indeed resolve, increased blood water content is what is associated with glycerol. In the spirit of causing his problems i was trouble shooting and involving negative feedback loops associated with the increased water saturation if he is already properly hydrated. The hyper hydrating effect will inevitably cause varying levels of spill over intracellularly and extracellularly when saturation points push the levels of homeostasis.
I've only seen evidence that the 'hyper-hydration' is limited to the bloodstream. As long as glycerol is in his system at a significant concentration, intracellular water retention will be minimal. 'Spill over' will not occur unless he ingests enough water to negate glycerol's effects and/or some major water-retentive stimulus is present. The whole point is that systemic fluid levels will be closer to osmotic homeostasis when more water is in serum in the presence of glycerol.

Are you suggesting there is some sort of over compensation once the kidney's clear the glycerol from his system?
 

bubbatar

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Thank you all for the responses. My diet is clean. Carbs from fruits, veggies, oats, and sweet potatoes. Fats mainly from nuts along with fish oil supps. Proteins from lean meats, mainly chicken. I sometimes have some tea, unsweetened, but its been about a week. I am not stressed and do not have any tea tree oil shampoo. Thanks also for the references and the article. NYiron, I am definately properly hydrated. I have been drinking extra water bc of the recommendations I have read online with pumping supplements. Idk if I am overhydrating though. So glycergrow only makes gyno appear to be worse? Should I cut out the glycergrow and see if that helps? Also, I could not find anything online about compound 20 and gyno. I searched some forums as well as google. Is there any correlation between it and gyno? It is a very nice supp for the little time I took it for. I just do not want to take anything that worsens gyno. Thank you again.
 
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Just be systematic - i.e. stop using everything for a while, see if that stops it. Then start using Compound 20 again, see how that affects you. If you're ok with that, start using creatin again. Repeat with each supp until you figure out what is aggravating the gyno.
 
PrepNwa23

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Just be systematic - i.e. stop using everything for a while, see if that stops it. Then start using Compound 20 again, see how that affects you. If you're ok with that, start using creatin again. Repeat with each supp until you figure out what is aggravating the gyno.
That would be my suggestion. Stop everything then add one thing at a time to see if the problem starts again.
 
NYiron

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I've only seen evidence that the 'hyper-hydration' is limited to the bloodstream. As long as glycerol is in his system at a significant concentration, intracellular water retention will be minimal. 'Spill over' will not occur unless he ingests enough water to negate glycerol's effects and/or some major water-retentive stimulus is present. The whole point is that systemic fluid levels will be closer to osmotic homeostasis when more water is in serum in the presence of glycerol.

Are you suggesting there is some sort of over compensation once the kidney's clear the glycerol from his system?
Resolve,

"Glycerol, a natural metabolite which is rapidly absorbed, has osmotic action, and is evenly distributed within the body fluid compartments, was tested as a possible hyperhydrating agent (Lyons, Riedesel, Meuli & Chick, 1990)."

"Interstitial glycerol concentrations were measured in the abdominal and femoral subcutaneous tissue in 10 lean and 6 obese subjects. In the lean subjects [waist-hip circumference ratio (WHR) 0.89 +/- 0.01] the fasting interstitial glycerol concentrations in the abdominal and femoral regions were 185 +/- 20 and 160 +/- 15 (SE) microM, respectively, whereas glycerol in venous plasma was considerably lower (66 +/- 5 microM). After an oral glucose load (100 g) the interstitial glycerol concentrations declined but remained higher than in plasma. In obese subjects (WHR 1.1 +/- 0.03) the fasting interstitial glycerol levels were higher, in both regions, than in lean individuals. Furthermore, interstitial glycerol in the abdominal site (291 +/- 32 microM) was significantly higher than in the femoral fat (210 +/- 13 microM; P less than 0.05), while plasma glycerol was similar to that in lean subjects (80 +/- 12 microM). Interstitial glycerol remained higher in the obese than in the lean subjects also after an oral glucose load, but the regional differences were less apparent. Thus interstitial glycerol is higher in the subcutaneous tissue than in venous blood (Jansson, Smith & Lonnroth, 1990)."

Also an increase in Mean Arterial Pressure due to the increased plasma volume "hyperhydration" will trigger arterial baroreceptors. Along with the baroreceptors, peripheral chemoreceptors, sensing electrolyte imbalance, will trigger a negative feedback leading to decreased release of Vasopressin and Aldosterone to begin water excretion. With this process diffusion will occur along the osmotic gradient from the plasma into the extra and intracellular fluids in attempts to normalize blood pressure. Hence the bloating that can be associated with glycerol intake. Glycerol is a metabolite naturally occurring within the body and supplementing with this will saturate and then some. Causing levels within the blood and within the cells and extracellular fluid to rise bringing water along with it.

Lyons, T., Riedesel, M., Meuli, L., & Chick, T. (1990). Effects of glycerol-induced hyper-hydration prior to exercise in the heat on sweating and core temperature. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 22(4), 477-483. Retrieved from ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/
2402207/reload=0;jsessionid=VX7m7QQuRyOtDLeIgA09.0

Jansson, P., Smith, U., & Lonnroth, P. (1990). Interstitial glycerol concentration measured by microdialysis in two subcutaneous regions in humans. The American Physiological Society, Retrieved from ajpendo.physiology.o r g/content/
258/6/E918.short
 
NYiron

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Just be systematic - i.e. stop using everything for a while, see if that stops it. Then start using Compound 20 again, see how that affects you. If you're ok with that, start using creatin again. Repeat with each supp until you figure out what is aggravating the gyno.
Best way to go about it in my opinion aswell! Good suggestion.
 
rubberring

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The main issue in this thread (and many others) is that I'm not sure the OP has gyno. Neither puffy nips nor extracellular water retention are gyno.

OP, do you actually have enlarged glands, i.e. hard, sensitive-to-the-touch lumps behind the nips? Or just some puffiness?
 

bubbatar

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Dropping everything and then adding one thing at a time sounds like a good idea. Rubberring, yes the right side has a hard lump that is sensitive, the other side has a lump type formation that is not as hard and is not sensitive but it was the first to form and has never gone away. They are noticeable but definately more so when cold.
 
rubberring

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Dropping everything and then adding one thing at a time sounds like a good idea. Rubberring, yes the right side has a hard lump that is sensitive, the other side has a lump type formation that is not as hard and is not sensitive but it was the first to form and has never gone away. They are noticeable but definately more so when cold.
Okay, I had to ask. So many guys post these threads only to reveal they have unfortunate chest fat.

Are you considering taking an AI (OTC/pharma/research chem) to remedy the issue? If so, here's a current thread on the matter: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/205195-gyno-hdrol-yes.html
 
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Resolve,

"Glycerol, a natural metabolite which is rapidly absorbed, has osmotic action, and is evenly distributed within the body fluid compartments, was tested as a possible hyperhydrating agent (Lyons, Riedesel, Meuli & Chick, 1990)."

"Interstitial glycerol concentrations were measured in the abdominal and femoral subcutaneous tissue in 10 lean and 6 obese subjects. In the lean subjects [waist-hip circumference ratio (WHR) 0.89 +/- 0.01] the fasting interstitial glycerol concentrations in the abdominal and femoral regions were 185 +/- 20 and 160 +/- 15 (SE) microM, respectively, whereas glycerol in venous plasma was considerably lower (66 +/- 5 microM). After an oral glucose load (100 g) the interstitial glycerol concentrations declined but remained higher than in plasma. In obese subjects (WHR 1.1 +/- 0.03) the fasting interstitial glycerol levels were higher, in both regions, than in lean individuals. Furthermore, interstitial glycerol in the abdominal site (291 +/- 32 microM) was significantly higher than in the femoral fat (210 +/- 13 microM; P less than 0.05), while plasma glycerol was similar to that in lean subjects (80 +/- 12 microM). Interstitial glycerol remained higher in the obese than in the lean subjects also after an oral glucose load, but the regional differences were less apparent. Thus interstitial glycerol is higher in the subcutaneous tissue than in venous blood (Jansson, Smith & Lonnroth, 1990)."

Also an increase in Mean Arterial Pressure due to the increased plasma volume "hyperhydration" will trigger arterial baroreceptors. Along with the baroreceptors, peripheral chemoreceptors, sensing electrolyte imbalance, will trigger a negative feedback leading to decreased release of Vasopressin and Aldosterone to begin water excretion. With this process diffusion will occur along the osmotic gradient from the plasma into the extra and intracellular fluids in attempts to normalize blood pressure. Hence the bloating that can be associated with glycerol intake. Glycerol is a metabolite naturally occurring within the body and supplementing with this will saturate and then some. Causing levels within the blood and within the cells and extracellular fluid to rise bringing water along with it.

Lyons, T., Riedesel, M., Meuli, L., & Chick, T. (1990). Effects of glycerol-induced hyper-hydration prior to exercise in the heat on sweating and core temperature. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 22(4), 477-483. Retrieved from ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/
2402207/reload=0;jsessionid=VX7m7QQuRyOtDLeIgA09.0

Jansson, P., Smith, U., & Lonnroth, P. (1990). Interstitial glycerol concentration measured by microdialysis in two subcutaneous regions in humans. The American Physiological Society, Retrieved from ajpendo.physiology.o r g/content/
258/6/E918.short
Interesting, I was unaware of glycerol's interstitial effects. You are correct that it can apparently increase total water retention. I was unaware of this and appreciate the correction. Reps for a stimulating conversation! :cheers:
 
NYiron

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Interesting, I was unaware of glycerol's interstitial effects. You are correct that it can apparently increase total water retention. I was unaware of this and appreciate the correction. Reps for a stimulating conversation! :cheers:
Thank you, for the friendly and interesting conversation along with the reps! I hope we were able to help the OP. Have a good one :cheers:
 

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