Banaba and Corosolic Acid: Which % is most effective?

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    Question Banaba and Corosolic Acid: Which % is most effective?


    I have my own views on the topic that I will keep to myself (at least until after some responses are in), but I would like to stimulate discussion by asking you, the consumer, what extract of banaba you feel is most effective? As a background, the two schools of thought, both backed by reputable formulators:

    1. Lower % corosolic acid is better. The other constituents of banaba are responsible for the majority of glucose control effects.

    2. Higher % corosolic acid is better. Corosolic acid is the prime constituent of banaba that improves insulin sensitivity.

    I'm willing to entertain personal experiences or glucometer tests since the research isn't cut and dry. If you have any anecdotal OR scientific feedback, I'd love to hear it.

    Common extract %s are: 1, 2, 20.
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    Whatever percentage of PEA that was found in Primaforce PEA.
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    I like them both. Tannins are responsible for a lot. As is the corosolic acid
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    I like them both. Tannins are responsible for a lot. As is the corosolic acid
    Thoughts on lower % extracts having significantly higher Penta-O-galloyl-glucopyranose content?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Thoughts on lower % extracts having significantly higher Penta-O-galloyl-glucopyranose content?
    Each lot will be different. Along with % constituents. They vary.
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    http://www.wellnessresources.com/stu...ue_metabolism/

    Very awesome discussion idea Coop.

    I have no real answer YET, but it seems interesting that lower corsolic acid contents could be superior.

    Also, only pubmed study I find on glut4translocation is in mice; a study close to a decade old. Be nice if this stuff was studied in athletes.

    Also nice to come across a lot of apoptosis induction of cancer cells and anti-carcinogen studies. Not why we necessarily buy it, but very good to know.

    In for more.
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    I am VERY familiar with Bryon Richards website and work. As far as its concerned there are many other ingredients that can increase glut4 translocation as well as function as an anti adipogenic agent. These can be in the form or PPARy PARTIAL agonists.

    you would really have to see what the normal % of PGG is in banaba and then take it from there. If it is not standardized, all banaba will contain X amount of the PGG, as well as what it is standardized to ( in our case corosolic acid)
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    Great links. For the record, corosolic acid does indeed stimulate Glut4 translocation. My question is whether or not a banaba extract has MORE potent/favorable compounds in quantities sufficient to justify lowering the % of a known constituent that works (corosolic acid, in this case). In my eyes, PGG seems to be of greater value to a BBer, but the question remains.
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    like i said before, everything has x percentage of a specific constituent. The standardization shouldnt take away from that.

    if you truely wanted to see what would happen a 10:1 extract in which nothing is standardized is cheap and may be effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    like i said before, everything has x percentage of a specific constituent. The standardization shouldnt take away from that.

    if you truely wanted to see what would happen a 10:1 extract in which nothing is standardized is cheap and may be effective.
    Understood. Have you tested an unstandardized extract, and if so, are you at liberty to disclose which compounds were most prominent and/or potent.
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    i have not.

    But ive used 1%, 1.5%, and 10:1 and 20% at different doses. The 20 percent was more potent mg for mg for blood sugar.

    I didnt gauge leanness though. but id use 10g a day of banaba 10:1. I can order a kilo and do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I have my own views on the topic that I will keep to myself (at least until after some responses are in), but I would like to stimulate discussion by asking you, the consumer, what extract of banaba you feel is most effective? As a background, the two schools of thought, both backed by reputable formulators:

    1. Lower % corosolic acid is better. The other constituents of banaba are responsible for the majority of glucose control effects.

    2. Higher % corosolic acid is better. Corosolic acid is the prime constituent of banaba that improves insulin sensitivity.

    I'm willing to entertain personal experiences or glucometer tests since the research isn't cut and dry. If you have any anecdotal OR scientific feedback, I'd love to hear it.

    Common extract %s are: 1, 2, 20.
    I would also be interested in understanding what an effective dose for each extract would be. I have seen the 1% extract used at 100mg which means that 1mg of corosolic acid per serving is effective as a GDA ingredient?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvg67

    I would also be interested in understanding what an effective dose for each extract would be. I have seen the 1% extract used at 100mg which means that 1mg of corosolic acid per serving is effective as a GDA ingredient?
    The human glucose study was done w 10mg corosolic acid
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    Anyone have a verdict?

    I'm a huge Anabolic Pump fan. I respond VERY well to it. Leaning out, crazy pumps, and increased vascularity. All progressively improving as I continue AP.

    Slin Sane 2 looks solid as well, but obviously very different. I am curious to find out if the 1mg CA in Slin Sane will bring any benefit. I believe the CA in AP is at least 10mg.

    But both products contain other ingredients which are very beneficial to body comp and overall health.

    Going to run blood glucose tests on the both of them soon. Although achieving lower blood glucose is not my main priority, it is still telling of the effectiveness of a product as a GDA. Translocation to muscle and insulin sensitizing effects are my main goal at this point in my life, if possible.
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    Increased akt phosphorylation?

    Edit: in reference to lower percentage corsolic acid.
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    Double post
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    Sorry to see this thread die.
    SlinSane v2 looks promising and is being heavily promoted in another thread but it has the 1% extract at 100mg.
    I was hoping someone from Genomyx would jump in here and support this dosage as being effective?
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    in for this.. will add later when have time
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    in for this.. will add later when have time
    Interested in your future post. You always leave me plenty of cool studies to read when you contribute.
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    After a quick review of the literature I would say 1% corosolic acid > every other %. The research supports this and I imagine a lower % makes it more cost effective as well so I am not seeing a reason for getting a higher standardized percent of corosolic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh
    After a quick review of the literature I would say 1% corosolic acid > every other %. The research supports this and I imagine a lower % makes it more cost effective as well so I am not seeing a reason for getting a higher standardized percent of corosolic.
    Depending how you look at it.

    I'd need 1000 mg for 10 mg CA. Not cost effective compared to 50 mg for 10mg ca. I would need 10x more per serving.

    And I use more than 10 mg cavper serving. So it depends ingle much your using.
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    Dbl post
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    Antidiabetic activity of a standardized extract (Glucosol) from Lagerstroemia speciosa leaves in Type II diabetics. A dose-dependence study

    The antidiabetic activity of an extract from the leaves of Lagerstroemia speciosa standardized to 1% corosolic acid (Glucosol) has been demonstrated in a randomized clinical trial involving Type II diabetics (non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, NIDDM). Subjects received a daily oral dose of Glucosol and blood glucose levels were measured. Glucosol at daily dosages of 32 and 48mg for 2 weeks showed a significant reduction in the blood glucose levels. Glucosol in a soft gel capsule formulation showed a 30% decrease in blood glucose levels compared to a 20% drop seen with dry-powder filled hard gelatin capsule formulation (P&lt;0.001), suggesting that the soft gel formulation has a better bioavailability than a dry-powder formulation.

    PMID 12787964
    the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.

    A review of the efficacy and safety of banaba (Lagerstroemia speciosa L.) and corosolic acid.

    Banaba (Lagerstroemia speciosa L.) extracts have been used for many years in folk medicine to treat diabetes, with the first published research study being reported in 1940. This review summarizes the current literature regarding banaba and its constituents. The hypoglycemic effects of banaba have been attributed to both corosolic acid as well as ellagitannins. Studies have been conducted in various animal models, human subjects and in vitro systems using water soluble banaba leaf extracts, corosolic acid-standardized extracts, and purified corosolic acid and ellagitannins. Pure corosolic acid has been reported to decrease blood sugar levels within 60 min in human subjects. Corosolic acid also exhibits antihyperlipidemic, antioxidant, antiinflammatory, antifungal, antiviral, antineoplastic and osteoblastic activities. The beneficial effects of banaba and corosolic acid with respect to various aspects of glucose and lipid metabolism appear to involve multiple mechanisms, including enhanced cellular uptake of glucose, impaired hydrolysis of sucrose and starches, decreased gluconeogenesis and the regulation of lipid metabolism. These effects may be mediated by PPAR, MAP K, NF-κB and other signal transduction factors. No adverse effects have been observed or reported in animal studies or controlled human clinical trials. Banaba extract, corosolic acid and other constituents may be beneficial in addressing the symptoms associated with metabolic syndrome, as well as offering other health benefits.

    PMID: 22095937
    There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

    Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all

    Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.



    There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

    Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all

    Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
    Doesn't the actual amount (mg) of CA matter more than the actual 1%. Obviously the amount (mg) of CA varies depending on the amount of banaba. 1% CA of 1g banaba is not the same at 1% CA of 500mg banaba.
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    The above study used 48mg of banaba that was 1% corosolic acid which equaled 0.48mg of corosolic acid (Unless I am misreading it)

    Also worth repeating, they used gel caps which helped to enhance absorption. Compared to powder filled caps there was a 10% decrease (with the soft gels they got a 30% drop in blood glucose levels and with the powder they got a 10% drop)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh
    The above study used 48mg of banaba that was 1% corosolic acid which equaled 0.48mg of corosolic acid (Unless I am misreading it)

    Also worth repeating, they used gel caps which helped to enhance absorption. Compared to powder filled caps there was a 10% decrease (with the soft gels they got a 30% drop in blood glucose levels and with the powder they got a 10% drop)
    So would tripling the powder intake give the same drop in blood glucose levels?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.

    There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

    Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all

    Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
    We are looking at normal individuals. Small amounts will help diabetics differently than normal diabetics. The study I based dosing on was 10mg corosolic acid. I have 10 per cap. Why? So the bottle will not only last as long as a full month but users can make it last 2 months if eating 300 g carb per day. The effects also show to be more beneficial on dgat inhibition with corosolic acid too
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.

    There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

    Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all

    Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
    Also. Don't u want to be protected if eating those meals?

    I mean I for one want to definitely take my recompadrol pre any garbage meal. Block some carbs assimilate others. I get crankybibi eat without it
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    We are looking at normal individuals. Small amounts will help diabetics differently than normal diabetics. The study I based dosing on was 10mg corosolic acid. I have 10 per cap. Why? So the bottle will not only last as long as a full month but users can make it last 2 months if eating 300 g carb per day. The effects also show to be more beneficial on dgat inhibition with corosolic acid too
    References for both of those?

    10mg corosolic acid is a BIG jump from .48mg but me and you go back and I trust your feedback, would just like to read some on it.

    Now just so we are clear, I am not saying more is bad, all I am saying is from what I reviewed, 48mg at 1% (in a gel capsule) has be shown to be effective and I tend to recommend what the literature supports. Now is more better? I dunno but I would like to see that 10mg study.

    Personally since I have been out of recompadrol, I have been using 3 caps neovar pre meals (unless they are feast meals of course ) I am using neovar since I have a bunch of bottles and short on funds right now
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh

    References for both of those?

    10mg corosolic acid is a BIG jump from .48mg but me and you go back and I trust your feedback, would just like to read some on it.

    Now just so we are clear, I am not saying more is bad, all I am saying is from what I reviewed, 48mg at 1% (in a gel capsule) has be shown to be effective and I tend to recommend what the literature supports. Now is more better? I dunno but I would like to see that 10mg study.

    Personally since I have been out of recompadrol, I have been using 3 caps neovar pre meals (unless they are feast meals of course ) I am using neovar since I have a bunch of bottles and short on funds right now
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