Banaba and Corosolic Acid: Which % is most effective?

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
I have my own views on the topic that I will keep to myself (at least until after some responses are in), but I would like to stimulate discussion by asking you, the consumer, what extract of banaba you feel is most effective? As a background, the two schools of thought, both backed by reputable formulators:

1. Lower % corosolic acid is better. The other constituents of banaba are responsible for the majority of glucose control effects.

2. Higher % corosolic acid is better. Corosolic acid is the prime constituent of banaba that improves insulin sensitivity.

I'm willing to entertain personal experiences or glucometer tests since the research isn't cut and dry. If you have any anecdotal OR scientific feedback, I'd love to hear it.

Common extract %s are: 1, 2, 20.
 

PuZo

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Whatever percentage of PEA that was found in Primaforce PEA.
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I like them both. Tannins are responsible for a lot. As is the corosolic acid
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
I like them both. Tannins are responsible for a lot. As is the corosolic acid
Thoughts on lower % extracts having significantly higher Penta-O-galloyl-glucopyranose content?
 
Celorza

Celorza

Well-known member
Awards
0
Interesting...time to go to class , subbed!
 
rob112

rob112

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
http://www.wellnessresources.com/studies/banaba_leaf_helps_correct_abnormal_white_adopipose_tissue_metabolism/

Very awesome discussion idea Coop.

I have no real answer YET, but it seems interesting that lower corsolic acid contents could be superior.

Also, only pubmed study I find on glut4translocation is in mice; a study close to a decade old. Be nice if this stuff was studied in athletes.

Also nice to come across a lot of apoptosis induction of cancer cells and anti-carcinogen studies. Not why we necessarily buy it, but very good to know.

In for more.
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I am VERY familiar with Bryon Richards website and work. As far as its concerned there are many other ingredients that can increase glut4 translocation as well as function as an anti adipogenic agent. These can be in the form or PPARy PARTIAL agonists.

you would really have to see what the normal % of PGG is in banaba and then take it from there. If it is not standardized, all banaba will contain X amount of the PGG, as well as what it is standardized to ( in our case corosolic acid)
 
  • Like
Reactions: mw1

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
Great links. For the record, corosolic acid does indeed stimulate Glut4 translocation. My question is whether or not a banaba extract has MORE potent/favorable compounds in quantities sufficient to justify lowering the % of a known constituent that works (corosolic acid, in this case). In my eyes, PGG seems to be of greater value to a BBer, but the question remains.
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
like i said before, everything has x percentage of a specific constituent. The standardization shouldnt take away from that.

if you truely wanted to see what would happen a 10:1 extract in which nothing is standardized is cheap and may be effective.
 

mr.cooper69

Legend
Awards
0
like i said before, everything has x percentage of a specific constituent. The standardization shouldnt take away from that.

if you truely wanted to see what would happen a 10:1 extract in which nothing is standardized is cheap and may be effective.
Understood. Have you tested an unstandardized extract, and if so, are you at liberty to disclose which compounds were most prominent and/or potent.
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
i have not.

But ive used 1%, 1.5%, and 10:1 and 20% at different doses. The 20 percent was more potent mg for mg for blood sugar.

I didnt gauge leanness though. but id use 10g a day of banaba 10:1. I can order a kilo and do it.
 

criticalbench

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Very interesting post.. subbed for sure
 

tvg67

New member
Awards
0
I have my own views on the topic that I will keep to myself (at least until after some responses are in), but I would like to stimulate discussion by asking you, the consumer, what extract of banaba you feel is most effective? As a background, the two schools of thought, both backed by reputable formulators:

1. Lower % corosolic acid is better. The other constituents of banaba are responsible for the majority of glucose control effects.

2. Higher % corosolic acid is better. Corosolic acid is the prime constituent of banaba that improves insulin sensitivity.

I'm willing to entertain personal experiences or glucometer tests since the research isn't cut and dry. If you have any anecdotal OR scientific feedback, I'd love to hear it.

Common extract %s are: 1, 2, 20.
I would also be interested in understanding what an effective dose for each extract would be. I have seen the 1% extract used at 100mg which means that 1mg of corosolic acid per serving is effective as a GDA ingredient?
 
Diesel0022

Diesel0022

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
In for coops sciencey talk, reading time
 
Bamski

Bamski

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Good bump. I need to find more of these! Or just creep on coops threads :D
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I would also be interested in understanding what an effective dose for each extract would be. I have seen the 1% extract used at 100mg which means that 1mg of corosolic acid per serving is effective as a GDA ingredient?
The human glucose study was done w 10mg corosolic acid
 

Clemenza

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Anyone have a verdict?

I'm a huge Anabolic Pump fan. I respond VERY well to it. Leaning out, crazy pumps, and increased vascularity. All progressively improving as I continue AP.

Slin Sane 2 looks solid as well, but obviously very different. I am curious to find out if the 1mg CA in Slin Sane will bring any benefit. I believe the CA in AP is at least 10mg.

But both products contain other ingredients which are very beneficial to body comp and overall health.

Going to run blood glucose tests on the both of them soon. Although achieving lower blood glucose is not my main priority, it is still telling of the effectiveness of a product as a GDA. Translocation to muscle and insulin sensitizing effects are my main goal at this point in my life, if possible.
 
rob112

rob112

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Increased akt phosphorylation?

Edit: in reference to lower percentage corsolic acid.
 

tvg67

New member
Awards
0
Sorry to see this thread die.
SlinSane v2 looks promising and is being heavily promoted in another thread but it has the 1% extract at 100mg.
I was hoping someone from Genomyx would jump in here and support this dosage as being effective?
 
JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
in for this.. will add later when have time
 
bolt10

bolt10

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
in for this.. will add later when have time
Interested in your future post. You always leave me plenty of cool studies to read when you contribute. ;)
 
JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
After a quick review of the literature I would say 1% corosolic acid > every other %. The research supports this and I imagine a lower % makes it more cost effective as well so I am not seeing a reason for getting a higher standardized percent of corosolic.
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
After a quick review of the literature I would say 1% corosolic acid > every other %. The research supports this and I imagine a lower % makes it more cost effective as well so I am not seeing a reason for getting a higher standardized percent of corosolic.
Depending how you look at it.

I'd need 1000 mg for 10 mg CA. Not cost effective compared to 50 mg for 10mg ca. I would need 10x more per serving.

And I use more than 10 mg cavper serving. So it depends ingle much your using.
 
JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Dbl post
 
JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Antidiabetic activity of a standardized extract (Glucosol) from Lagerstroemia speciosa leaves in Type II diabetics. A dose-dependence study

The antidiabetic activity of an extract from the leaves of Lagerstroemia speciosa standardized to 1% corosolic acid (Glucosol) has been demonstrated in a randomized clinical trial involving Type II diabetics (non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, NIDDM). Subjects received a daily oral dose of Glucosol and blood glucose levels were measured. Glucosol at daily dosages of 32 and 48mg for 2 weeks showed a significant reduction in the blood glucose levels. Glucosol in a soft gel capsule formulation showed a 30% decrease in blood glucose levels compared to a 20% drop seen with dry-powder filled hard gelatin capsule formulation (P<0.001), suggesting that the soft gel formulation has a better bioavailability than a dry-powder formulation.

PMID 12787964
the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.

A review of the efficacy and safety of banaba (Lagerstroemia speciosa L.) and corosolic acid.

Banaba (Lagerstroemia speciosa L.) extracts have been used for many years in folk medicine to treat diabetes, with the first published research study being reported in 1940. This review summarizes the current literature regarding banaba and its constituents. The hypoglycemic effects of banaba have been attributed to both corosolic acid as well as ellagitannins. Studies have been conducted in various animal models, human subjects and in vitro systems using water soluble banaba leaf extracts, corosolic acid-standardized extracts, and purified corosolic acid and ellagitannins. Pure corosolic acid has been reported to decrease blood sugar levels within 60 min in human subjects. Corosolic acid also exhibits antihyperlipidemic, antioxidant, antiinflammatory, antifungal, antiviral, antineoplastic and osteoblastic activities. The beneficial effects of banaba and corosolic acid with respect to various aspects of glucose and lipid metabolism appear to involve multiple mechanisms, including enhanced cellular uptake of glucose, impaired hydrolysis of sucrose and starches, decreased gluconeogenesis and the regulation of lipid metabolism. These effects may be mediated by PPAR, MAP K, NF-κB and other signal transduction factors. No adverse effects have been observed or reported in animal studies or controlled human clinical trials. Banaba extract, corosolic acid and other constituents may be beneficial in addressing the symptoms associated with metabolic syndrome, as well as offering other health benefits.

PMID: 22095937
There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all :p

Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
 

Clemenza

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.



There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all :p

Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
Doesn't the actual amount (mg) of CA matter more than the actual 1%. Obviously the amount (mg) of CA varies depending on the amount of banaba. 1% CA of 1g banaba is not the same at 1% CA of 500mg banaba.
 
JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
The above study used 48mg of banaba that was 1% corosolic acid which equaled 0.48mg of corosolic acid (Unless I am misreading it)

Also worth repeating, they used gel caps which helped to enhance absorption. Compared to powder filled caps there was a 10% decrease (with the soft gels they got a 30% drop in blood glucose levels and with the powder they got a 10% drop)
 

uvawahoowa

Well-known member
Awards
0
The above study used 48mg of banaba that was 1% corosolic acid which equaled 0.48mg of corosolic acid (Unless I am misreading it)

Also worth repeating, they used gel caps which helped to enhance absorption. Compared to powder filled caps there was a 10% decrease (with the soft gels they got a 30% drop in blood glucose levels and with the powder they got a 10% drop)
So would tripling the powder intake give the same drop in blood glucose levels?
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.

There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all :p

Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
We are looking at normal individuals. Small amounts will help diabetics differently than normal diabetics. The study I based dosing on was 10mg corosolic acid. I have 10 per cap. Why? So the bottle will not only last as long as a full month but users can make it last 2 months if eating 300 g carb per day. The effects also show to be more beneficial on dgat inhibition with corosolic acid too
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
the caveat being the above used gel caps and most OTC products use dry powder filled capsules so you would need more than the 32-48mg suggested above, bit how much I do not know.

There is no question that the corosolic acid in banaba is responsible for some of the effects, but again 1% was shown to be effective so why go higher?

Remember Zach, not everyone eats 3k+ meals of pancakes, eggs, waffles, sausage, chicken and potato hash with maple syrup poured over it all :p

Now are you aiming for that much corosolic based off your eating habits? Or is their research go support that amount being "more" effective? Or is it that you just like to megadose (experiment) cause you have access to raws and can?
Also. Don't u want to be protected if eating those meals?

I mean I for one want to definitely take my recompadrol pre any garbage meal. Block some carbs assimilate others. I get crankybibi eat without it
 
JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
We are looking at normal individuals. Small amounts will help diabetics differently than normal diabetics. The study I based dosing on was 10mg corosolic acid. I have 10 per cap. Why? So the bottle will not only last as long as a full month but users can make it last 2 months if eating 300 g carb per day. The effects also show to be more beneficial on dgat inhibition with corosolic acid too
References for both of those?

10mg corosolic acid is a BIG jump from .48mg but me and you go back and I trust your feedback, would just like to read some on it.

Now just so we are clear, I am not saying more is bad, all I am saying is from what I reviewed, 48mg at 1% (in a gel capsule) has be shown to be effective and I tend to recommend what the literature supports. Now is more better? I dunno but I would like to see that 10mg study.

Personally since I have been out of recompadrol, I have been using 3 caps neovar pre meals (unless they are feast meals of course ;) ) I am using neovar since I have a bunch of bottles and short on funds right now
 
RecompMan

RecompMan

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
References for both of those?

10mg corosolic acid is a BIG jump from .48mg but me and you go back and I trust your feedback, would just like to read some on it.

Now just so we are clear, I am not saying more is bad, all I am saying is from what I reviewed, 48mg at 1% (in a gel capsule) has be shown to be effective and I tend to recommend what the literature supports. Now is more better? I dunno but I would like to see that 10mg study.

Personally since I have been out of recompadrol, I have been using 3 caps neovar pre meals (unless they are feast meals of course ;) ) I am using neovar since I have a bunch of bottles and short on funds right now
http://www.utcbanaba.com/PDF/article.pdf
 
JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Figured this is worth mentioning in this thread

Has anyone noticed the structural similarities between ursolic acid and corosolic acid?

Ursolic


Corosolic


And if I remember correctly, holy basil has been shown to lower blood sugar levels so maybe ursolic and corosolic share a common MOA (activate similar or the same pathways?)
 
rob112

rob112

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Figured this is worth mentioning in this thread

Has anyone noticed the structural similarities between ursolic acid and corosolic acid?

Ursolic

Corosolic

And if I remember correctly, holy basil has been shown to lower blood sugar levels so maybe ursolic and corosolic share a common MOA (activate similar or the same pathways?)
I recall coming across something where the lesser know compound in banaba that coop mentions activating akt. I can't find the freaking study again though. Maybe coop can shed some light.
 
MAxximal

MAxximal

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
Figured this is worth mentioning in this thread

Has anyone noticed the structural similarities between ursolic acid and corosolic acid?

Ursolic


Corosolic


And if I remember correctly, holy basil has been shown to lower blood sugar levels so maybe ursolic and corosolic share a common MOA (activate similar or the same pathways?)
I noticed when i take 1g UA (37%) on Atkins Diet I go hypo and the headaches (for low sugar) killing me.
 
KingErgogenic

KingErgogenic

Member
Awards
0
I am so late to the party... But I have just started using a Banaba leaf Extract 1330mg (18% Corosolic acid).

Did a quick test to see how it can lower my sugar levels, and so far it's done a good job.

There's a lot more science on this topic since this post was abandoned, but I want to resurrect it!

Mechanisms of Action
Corosolic acid is suggested to induce GLUT4 translocation [9,10]. Translocation of more GLUT4 glucose transporters to the cell surface means increased insulin action [11]. Disrupted GLUT4 gene has been shown to cause insulin resistance in skeletal muscles as well as diabetes [12]. Corosolic acid also works as “insulin sensitizer” by inhibiting enzymatic activities of several diabetes-related non-receptor protein tyrosine phosphatases (such as PTP1B) which indirectly enhances insulin receptor B phosphorylation [9]. Inhibition of protein tyrosine phosphatase 1B is an attractive target for treatment of diabetes and obesity [13,14]. Corosolic acid also promotes glycolysis [5] and suppresses gluconeogenesis (via increased production of fructose-2,6-bisphosphate) [15].


Cortisol Regulation
Corosolic acid is a potent and selective inhibitor of the enzyme (11-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1) that converts inactive cortisone to active cortisol [18]. Therefore, corosolic acid may prevent excessive cortisol production.




Hamamoto S, et al. “Glucosol effect on blood glucose in rats. Yakuri to Chiryo”. 27.6 (1999): 1075-1077.
Judy, William V., et al. “Antidiabetic activity of a standardized extract (Glucosol™) from Lagerstroemia speciosa leaves in Type II diabetics: A dose-dependence study.” Journal of Ethnopharmacology 87.1 (2003): 115-117.
Miura, Toshihiro, et al. “Antidiabetic effects of corosolic acid in KK-Ay diabetic mice.” Biological and Pharmaceutical Bulletin 29.3 (2006): 585-587.
Tsuchibe, S., et al. “An inhibitory effect on the increase in the postprandial glucose by banaba extract capsule enriched corosolic acid.” Journal for the Integrated Study of Dietary Habits 17 (2006): 255-259.
Stohs, Sidney J., Howard Miller, and Gilbert R. Kaats. “A review of the efficacy and safety of banaba (Lagerstroemia speciosa L.) and corosolic acid.” Phytotherapy Research 26.3 (2012): 317-324.
Fukushima, M., et al. “Effect of corosolic acid on postchallenge plasma glucose levels.” Diabetes research and clinical practice 73.2 (2006): 174-177.
Jiao, Sheng, et al. “Decreased activity of acyl-CoA: cholesterol acyltransferase by insulin in human intestinal cell line Caco-2.” Diabetes 38.5 (1989): 604-609.
Takagi, Satoshi, et al. “Effect of corosolic acid on dietary hypercholesterolemia and hepatic steatosis in KK-Ay diabetic mice.” Biomedical Research 31.4 (2010): 213-218.
Miura, Toshihiro, et al. “Corosolic acid induces GLUT4 translocation in genetically type 2 diabetic mice.” Biological and pharmaceutical bulletin 27.7 (2004): 1103-1105.
Shi, Lei, et al. “Corosolic acid stimulates glucose uptake via enhancing insulin receptor phosphorylation.” European journal of pharmacology 584.1 (2008): 21-29.
Holloszy, John O. “Exercise-induced increase in muscle insulin sensitivity.”Journal of Applied Physiology 99.1 (2005): 338-343.
Stenbit, Antine E., et al. “GLUT4 heterozygous knockout mice develop muscle insulin resistance and diabetes.” Nature medicine 3.10 (1997): 1096-1101.
Pei, Zhonghua, et al. “Inhibition of protein tyrosine phosphatase 1B as a potential treatment of diabetes and obesity.” Current pharmaceutical design 10.28 (2004): 3481-3504.
Zhang, Zhong-Yin, and Seung-Yub Lee. “PTP1B inhibitors as potential therapeutics in the treatment of type 2 diabetes and obesity.” Expert opinion on investigational drugs 12.2 (2003): 223-233.
Yamada, Kotaro, et al. “Effect of corosolic acid on gluconeogenesis in rat liver.” Diabetes research and clinical practice 80.1 (2008): 48-55.
Sivakumar, Ganapathy, et al. “Plant‐based corosolic acid: Future anti‐diabetic drug?.” Biotechnology journal 4.12 (2009): 1704-1711.
Jang, Dae Sik, et al. “A new pancreatic lipase inhibitor isolated from the roots of Actinidia arguta.” Archives of pharmacal research 31.5 (2008): 666-670.
Deanna J. Fall, BA and Sirid-Aimée Kellermann. “Addressing Adrenal Imbalance: The Future of Adrenal health.” NeuroScience, Inc.
 
Rostam

Rostam

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I am so late to the party... But I have just started using a Banaba leaf Extract 1330mg (18% Corosolic acid).

Did a quick test to see how it can lower my sugar levels, and so far it's done a good job..
1330mg at 18% per dose. This is 240mg of corosolic acid per dose.Never heard anyone using such high dose.
Could you post your results?
 
KingErgogenic

KingErgogenic

Member
Awards
0
My blood sugars have definitely stabilised and hover around the 4.5 mark, which is perfect for me. I actually wanted to start using to help address my Fasting Insulin, which is floating at around 5. Not happy with that.

I have noticed better Muscle Pumps (GDA effect), way less desire for sweets/cravings.

In terms of Cortisol, it's hard to say, but I guess my stress has been slightly better on Banaba.

Also noticing better stools/bowel movements.
 

Similar threads


Top