Best supps for am training on empty stomach. Goal is getting lean.

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    The only time I can find to work out is 4:30 in the morning. I typically go on an empty stomach and a typical low carb pre-workout supp (Hyper FX, Jacked, etc.). Afterwards I drink a protein shake (gold standard), take my vitamins(mega men), and eat an apple. I am trying to lose my handles and maintain lean muscle. I have shifted to 3 cardio workouts (35 min high intensity) and 3 weightlifting workouts a week. If I have to miss a workout (usually on Saturday due to watching my 3yr old) it is usually weight training and i hit those body parts the next week. My biggest concern that by working out on an empty stomach I am sacrificing lean muscle for the sake of fat loss. Also I fear I am not supplementing correctly to utilize stored fat for energy.

    Typical workouts:
    Monday - Elliptical - 35 mins extreme hill (sprint on easy parts, power through resistance), finish with abb wheel
    Tuesday - Chest and Legs - Start heavy end with drop sets
    Wednesday - Cycling - 35 mins extreme hill (sprint on easy parts, power through resistance), finish with abb wheel
    Thursday - Biceps and triceps - Start heavy end with drop sets
    Friday - Elliptical - 35 mins extreme hill (sprint on easy parts, power through resistance), finish with abb wheel
    Saturday (if possible)- Back and shoulders - Start heavy end with drop sets

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    Mix up some BCAA's and sip them during your workout . I usually train very early myself on a empty stomach and I always have 1-2 servings of BCAA's before and during my training session.
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    Bcaas before the gym with ec stack.
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    yohimbine hcl
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    I can't lift empty, I do a shake or small food & wait a hour.
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    I lift on an empty stomach around 430 or 5 too. I usually have a big cup of coffee and 10g bcaa with 2 scoops of ai maniac. Then mix up another 10g bcaa to drink during the session. Took me a couple days to get used to training with no food in me, but its purely a mental thing. You'll get over it.

    Bcaa's are a MUST for fasted training for sure.
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    I'm on the same boat when it comes to training early. I eat cantaloupe and I have a shake with bcaas 30 min b4. And sip on bcaas throughout my work out too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny
    I lift on an empty stomach around 430 or 5 too. I usually have a big cup of coffee and 10g bcaa with 2 scoops of ai maniac. Then mix up another 10g bcaa to drink during the session. Took me a couple days to get used to training with no food in me, but its purely a mental thing. You'll get over it.

    Bcaa's are a MUST for fasted training for sure.
    Thanks for all the input. Looks like I could use some pre-workout BCAA's. Any suggestions.
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    Bulk modern bcaa works great for me. Available at nutraplanet. It was $25/kg for a while, not sure what its at now as I bought 6 tubs. I'm set for a while!
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    Quote Originally Posted by roblasane View Post
    Mix up some BCAA's and sip them during your workout . I usually train very early myself on a empty stomach and I always have 1-2 servings of BCAA's before and during my training session.
    How can you train on an empty stomach while sipping some BCAA ?
    There's something wrong..
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    I can't lift empty, I do a shake or small food & wait a hour.

    So you're a FOODSHAGGER?.
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    I train at 0500, and do like Aaron. I have a shake and a piece of fruit around 0400 when I wake up. Not a fan of using protein shakes to replace meals this way, but real life gets in the way sometimes.
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    BCAA
    Rauwolscine or Alpha-T2
    Caffeine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    I typically go on an empty stomach and a typical low carb pre-workout supp (Hyper FX, Jacked, etc.). Drink a protein shake (gold standard), take my vitamins(mega men), and eat an apple after.
    ....
    My biggest concern that by working out on an empty stomach I am sacrificing lean muscle for the sake of fat loss. Also I fear I am not supplementing correctly to utilize stored fat for energy.
    first, you aren't working out on an empty stomach if you have a protein shake first - I may be misreading it, sounds like you eat the apple after, if you eat that all after, then i'm wrong on this part.

    second, there isn't any particular evidence working out on an empty stomach increases fat loss.
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    absolutely you are playing with loaded dice on an empty stomach.

    Here is what I did when I lifted first thing in the AM

    when you get up to pee during the night have 2 scoops of Protean mixed with 1tbsp olive oil or pb or something.
    (you can manipulate what time this happens by regulating your water intake before bed)

    Second, upon awakening you should take 10g bcaa with 1/2 cap of NEW dexaprine, it has the Rauwolscine everyone loves
    thirdly sip on Compete during workout,
    the whey hydrosolate is a great anti catabolic, and the rhodiola will help lessen the stress response you are slamming your body with during an AM workout.

    hope this helps!
    you'll be lean, wired and jacked! ( well as jacked as protean and bcaa can get ya )
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    Bcaa's and yohimbine hcl would be a no no due to the insulin response elicited by Bcaa's yes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvp
    Bcaa's and yohimbine hcl would be a no no due to the insulin response elicited by Bcaa's yes?
    Good question.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvp View Post
    Bcaa's and yohimbine hcl would be a no no due to the insulin response elicited by Bcaa's yes?

    No insulin spike from bcaa.
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    if you are taking in 10g of bcaa over the span of an hour, there is next to no insulin response. Plus there isn't particularly good evidence in humans that insulin level affects yohimbine's effects. the human studies were not empty stomach/carb free and it was still effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvp View Post
    Bcaa's and yohimbine hcl would be a no no due to the insulin response elicited by Bcaa's yes?
    It's definitely not optimal, but the negation of yohimbine's lipolytic effects by insulin is obviously dose-dependent. BCAAs are highly insulinogenic but the spike is short-lived, and exercise makes insulin take on a different role in the body. If you take 4g of Leucine with yohimbine, I'd see no issue.
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    I have recently been reading about IF training on leangains site. Anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a good fit for my current schedule restrictions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    I have recently been reading about IF training on leangains site. Anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a good fit for my current schedule restrictions.
    I do it and love it, purely because it works around my schedule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    I have recently been reading about IF training on leangains site. Anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a good fit for my current schedule restrictions.
    it works. optimizes insulin sensitivity, raises growth hormone, makes you almost unable to gain significant bodyfat, lets you eat garbage foods again
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    Relevant to the BCAA intake and its effect on insulin discussion

    The effects of BCAAs intake on insulin
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvp View Post
    Bcaa's and yohimbine hcl would be a no no due to the insulin response elicited by Bcaa's yes?
    https://www.**********************/ar...mbine-hcl.html
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    again, the human studies were 10mg yohimbine 2x a day, with no restrictions on meals around the doses and had significant fat loss
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214405

    The main aim of this study was to determine the effects of yohimbine supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in professional soccer players. The athletes (20 top-level male soccer players) were allocated to two randomly assigned trials. Subjects in the yohimbine group orally ingested tablets that contains yohimbine at a dose of 20 milligrams per day in two equal doses for 21 days. Subjects in the placebo group ingested an equal number of identical-looking pills that contained cellulose. There were no statistically significant changes in body mass and muscle mass within or between trials (p > 0.05) after the supplementation protocol. Percentage of body fat significantly decreased in the yohimbine group after the supplementation protocol (9.3 +/- 1.1 vs. 7.1 +/- 2.2%; p < 0.05). Furthermore, fat mass was significantly lower in the yohimbine versus placebo trial at postsupplementation assessment (7.1 +/- 2.2 vs. 9.2 +/- 1.9%; p < 0.05). There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players. Nonetheless, yohimbine supplementation appears to be suitable as a fat loss strategy in elite athletes.
    significant bodyfat difference in 21 days.... WITHOUT worrying about insulin or eating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    it works. optimizes insulin sensitivity, raises growth hormone, makes you almost unable to gain significant bodyfat, lets you eat garbage foods again
    The only thing that I am unsure of is the fact that they say you can sub whey for BCAA's if necessary, but it seems like a descent amount of calories for fasting. Also, I have always been told that protein and carbs are essential immediately after your workout. Will BCAA's an hour post workout really have the same effect?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    The only thing that I am unsure of is the fact that they say you can sub whey for BCAA's if necessary, but it seems like a descent amount of calories for fasting. Also, I have always been told that protein and carbs are essential immediately after your workout. Will BCAA's an hour post workout really have the same effect?

    Who told you that?. People trying to sell you post workout products?. Or was it on the back of a supplement container?
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    I always questioned it due to the effect of insulin spikes on GH post workout. I guess the f&$kers selling supplements are all in it together. Lots of BS out there on that topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    The only thing that I am unsure of is the fact that they say you can sub whey for BCAA's if necessary, but it seems like a descent amount of calories for fasting. Also, I have always been told that protein and carbs are essential immediately after your workout. Will BCAA's an hour post workout really have the same effect?
    about half of the people using various forms of IF don't have anything for 3-6 hours post workout due to scheduling and they all (including me) seem to be doing fine. 10g bcaa or 5g leucine an hour (taken rapidly, not slowly through the hour) has next to 0 insulin response but maximizes protein synthesis. you know how "they" say you need the protein to rebuild? what exactly do "they" think happens to the aminos from the breakdown of the existing muscles? Do they burst into flames/get peed out? a significant fraction are available for re-use, in rebuilding.


    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    I always questioned it due to the effect of insulin spikes on GH post workout. I guess the f&$kers selling supplements are all in it together. Lots of BS out there on that topic.
    I will say that carbs in that "post workout window" can enhance FEELING of recovery. anything i've seen that looks at actual body comp shows pretty close to no difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    about half of the people using various forms of IF don't have anything for 3-6 hours post workout due to scheduling and they all (including me) seem to be doing fine. 10g bcaa or 5g leucine an hour (taken rapidly, not slowly through the hour) has next to 0 insulin response but maximizes protein synthesis. you know how "they" say you need the protein to rebuild? what exactly do "they" think happens to the aminos from the breakdown of the existing muscles? Do they burst into flames/get peed out? a significant fraction are available for re-use, in rebuilding.




    I will say that carbs in that "post workout window" can enhance FEELING of recovery. anything i've seen that looks at actual body comp shows pretty close to no difference.
    What about whey instead of BCAA's 5 mins before AM workout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    about half of the people using various forms of IF don't have anything for 3-6 hours post workout due to scheduling and they all (including me) seem to be doing fine. 10g bcaa or 5g leucine an hour (taken rapidly, not slowly through the hour) has next to 0 insulin response but maximizes protein synthesis. you know how "they" say you need the protein to rebuild? what exactly do "they" think happens to the aminos from the breakdown of the existing muscles? Do they burst into flames/get peed out? a significant fraction are available for re-use, in rebuilding.




    I will say that carbs in that "post workout window" can enhance FEELING of recovery. anything i've seen that looks at actual body comp shows pretty close to no difference.
    lol at burst into flames. I recently reduced the amount of post w/o carbs I have by a significant amount and have seen zero change in recovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    What about whey instead of BCAA's 5 mins before AM workout?
    if you want. so long as you keep total calories in the 50 or under range should be fine. the bcaas are nicer in my opinion, just the varieties of flavor available and them not being so thick + gloppy as whey. i'd rather have the lighter feeling in my stomach, but thats just me
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    What about ALCAR w/ the Yohimbine Hcl / BCAA combo? any additional benefit if taken PreW?
    :blindfold:
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    Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    What about ALCAR w/ the Yohimbine Hcl / BCAA combo? any additional benefit if taken PreW?
    some focus difference for the workout, not really a big fat loss or other difference. carnosines are more about establishing higher cellular concentration long term from what I can tell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    some focus difference for the workout, not really a big fat loss or other difference. carnosines* carnitines are more about establishing higher cellular concentration long term from what I can tell.
    I take it daily but wasn't sure if there was any fat-loss advantage to dosing pre. Thanks for clearing that up.
    :blindfold:
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