Best supps for am training on empty stomach. Goal is getting lean.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    I have recently been reading about IF training on leangains site. Anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a good fit for my current schedule restrictions.
    I do it and love it, purely because it works around my schedule.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    I have recently been reading about IF training on leangains site. Anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a good fit for my current schedule restrictions.
    it works. optimizes insulin sensitivity, raises growth hormone, makes you almost unable to gain significant bodyfat, lets you eat garbage foods again
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  3. Relevant to the BCAA intake and its effect on insulin discussion

    The effects of BCAAs intake on insulin
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  4. Quote Originally Posted by dvp View Post
    Bcaa's and yohimbine hcl would be a no no due to the insulin response elicited by Bcaa's yes?
    https://www.**********************/ar...mbine-hcl.html

  5. again, the human studies were 10mg yohimbine 2x a day, with no restrictions on meals around the doses and had significant fat loss
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214405

    The main aim of this study was to determine the effects of yohimbine supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in professional soccer players. The athletes (20 top-level male soccer players) were allocated to two randomly assigned trials. Subjects in the yohimbine group orally ingested tablets that contains yohimbine at a dose of 20 milligrams per day in two equal doses for 21 days. Subjects in the placebo group ingested an equal number of identical-looking pills that contained cellulose. There were no statistically significant changes in body mass and muscle mass within or between trials (p > 0.05) after the supplementation protocol. Percentage of body fat significantly decreased in the yohimbine group after the supplementation protocol (9.3 +/- 1.1 vs. 7.1 +/- 2.2%; p < 0.05). Furthermore, fat mass was significantly lower in the yohimbine versus placebo trial at postsupplementation assessment (7.1 +/- 2.2 vs. 9.2 +/- 1.9%; p < 0.05). There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players. Nonetheless, yohimbine supplementation appears to be suitable as a fat loss strategy in elite athletes.
    significant bodyfat difference in 21 days.... WITHOUT worrying about insulin or eating.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    it works. optimizes insulin sensitivity, raises growth hormone, makes you almost unable to gain significant bodyfat, lets you eat garbage foods again
    The only thing that I am unsure of is the fact that they say you can sub whey for BCAA's if necessary, but it seems like a descent amount of calories for fasting. Also, I have always been told that protein and carbs are essential immediately after your workout. Will BCAA's an hour post workout really have the same effect?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    The only thing that I am unsure of is the fact that they say you can sub whey for BCAA's if necessary, but it seems like a descent amount of calories for fasting. Also, I have always been told that protein and carbs are essential immediately after your workout. Will BCAA's an hour post workout really have the same effect?

    Who told you that?. People trying to sell you post workout products?. Or was it on the back of a supplement container?

  8. I always questioned it due to the effect of insulin spikes on GH post workout. I guess the f&$kers selling supplements are all in it together. Lots of BS out there on that topic.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    The only thing that I am unsure of is the fact that they say you can sub whey for BCAA's if necessary, but it seems like a descent amount of calories for fasting. Also, I have always been told that protein and carbs are essential immediately after your workout. Will BCAA's an hour post workout really have the same effect?
    about half of the people using various forms of IF don't have anything for 3-6 hours post workout due to scheduling and they all (including me) seem to be doing fine. 10g bcaa or 5g leucine an hour (taken rapidly, not slowly through the hour) has next to 0 insulin response but maximizes protein synthesis. you know how "they" say you need the protein to rebuild? what exactly do "they" think happens to the aminos from the breakdown of the existing muscles? Do they burst into flames/get peed out? a significant fraction are available for re-use, in rebuilding.


    Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    I always questioned it due to the effect of insulin spikes on GH post workout. I guess the f&$kers selling supplements are all in it together. Lots of BS out there on that topic.
    I will say that carbs in that "post workout window" can enhance FEELING of recovery. anything i've seen that looks at actual body comp shows pretty close to no difference.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    about half of the people using various forms of IF don't have anything for 3-6 hours post workout due to scheduling and they all (including me) seem to be doing fine. 10g bcaa or 5g leucine an hour (taken rapidly, not slowly through the hour) has next to 0 insulin response but maximizes protein synthesis. you know how "they" say you need the protein to rebuild? what exactly do "they" think happens to the aminos from the breakdown of the existing muscles? Do they burst into flames/get peed out? a significant fraction are available for re-use, in rebuilding.




    I will say that carbs in that "post workout window" can enhance FEELING of recovery. anything i've seen that looks at actual body comp shows pretty close to no difference.
    What about whey instead of BCAA's 5 mins before AM workout?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    about half of the people using various forms of IF don't have anything for 3-6 hours post workout due to scheduling and they all (including me) seem to be doing fine. 10g bcaa or 5g leucine an hour (taken rapidly, not slowly through the hour) has next to 0 insulin response but maximizes protein synthesis. you know how "they" say you need the protein to rebuild? what exactly do "they" think happens to the aminos from the breakdown of the existing muscles? Do they burst into flames/get peed out? a significant fraction are available for re-use, in rebuilding.




    I will say that carbs in that "post workout window" can enhance FEELING of recovery. anything i've seen that looks at actual body comp shows pretty close to no difference.
    lol at burst into flames. I recently reduced the amount of post w/o carbs I have by a significant amount and have seen zero change in recovery.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    What about whey instead of BCAA's 5 mins before AM workout?
    if you want. so long as you keep total calories in the 50 or under range should be fine. the bcaas are nicer in my opinion, just the varieties of flavor available and them not being so thick + gloppy as whey. i'd rather have the lighter feeling in my stomach, but thats just me

  13. What about ALCAR w/ the Yohimbine Hcl / BCAA combo? any additional benefit if taken PreW?
    :blindfold:

  14. Quote Originally Posted by monstermash View Post
    What about ALCAR w/ the Yohimbine Hcl / BCAA combo? any additional benefit if taken PreW?
    some focus difference for the workout, not really a big fat loss or other difference. carnosines are more about establishing higher cellular concentration long term from what I can tell.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    some focus difference for the workout, not really a big fat loss or other difference. carnosines* carnitines are more about establishing higher cellular concentration long term from what I can tell.
    I take it daily but wasn't sure if there was any fat-loss advantage to dosing pre. Thanks for clearing that up.
    :blindfold:

  16. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    if you want. so long as you keep total calories in the 50 or under range should be fine. the bcaas are nicer in my opinion, just the varieties of flavor available and them not being so thick + gloppy as whey. i'd rather have the lighter feeling in my stomach, but thats just me
    So a BCAA powder with 3g of carbs a serving is cool?

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    So a BCAA powder with 3g of carbs a serving is cool?
    yeah, even if its 10g bcaa with that, you are talking a peak possible of 52 calories, and likely not even that really the way bcaas are digested

  18. So what's more important when training fasted- preworkout nutrition or post workout nutrition? The reason I ask is because I prefer to train on empty with only black coffee and then immediately post workout I slam a shake with whey, milk, banana , pb and cinnamon. Am a playing with fire when it comes to gains or muscle loss. Just not big on bcaa ( not for any particular reason)

  19. Quote Originally Posted by 0071982WC View Post
    So what's more important when training fasted- preworkout nutrition or post workout nutrition? The reason I ask is because I prefer to train on empty with only black coffee and then immediately post workout I slam a shake with whey, milk, banana , pb and cinnamon. Am a playing with fire when it comes to gains or muscle loss. Just not big on bcaa ( not for any particular reason)
    that's the best way to do it IMO.

  20. New Dexaprine + Compete= Fasted Boy's dream. I have been training fasted for over a year now and those two supplements are going to be in my arsenal for a while now. When in doubt, however, Black coffee & some BCAA's never let anyone down.
    iForce Nutrition Representative
    iTrain. iCompete. iDominate…iForce!
    www.iforcenutrition.com

  21. How important are the ratios of BCAA's. There is an 8-1-1, 3-2-2, etc.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    How important are the ratios of BCAA's. There is an 8-1-1, 3-2-2, etc.
    Each have different purposes.
    The best is to find one with high valine for preW / intraW
    and high leu for intraW / postW.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    How important are the ratios of BCAA's. There is an 8-1-1, 3-2-2, etc.
    45mg/kg BW in leucine and call it.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Karljustin View Post
    How important are the ratios of BCAA's. There is an 8-1-1, 3-2-2, etc.
    the ratio of how good it tastes vs how much it costs is the most important. If you get overall decent protein in the rest of the day, the particular ratio is meaningless.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    the ratio of how good it tastes vs how much it costs is the most important. If you get overall decent protein in the rest of the day, the particular ratio is meaningless.
    My thoughts exactly
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