'Experiment"(anyone with chemic knowledge?)
- 10-14-2004, 07:56 AM
'Experiment"(anyone with chemic knowledge?)
I'm going to do an experiment. Everybody sayswon't work but I'm gonna use Tribestan(Sopharma, it should be good) for 8 weeks at maximal dose.
I'll measure my test and things before and after 5 weeks of use and will look if changes in parameters will be statistically significant.
However as it is supposed to raise testosterone through LH it will also increase estradiol.
So, I need an effective ANTI-ESTROGEN. My eye fell on transdermal but as it'll turn partly into androgen and so (very) mildly suppress and might lower LH it is not suitable I suppose.
Does anybody have an idea? Maybe MetaCort by Dermabolics? (transdermal containing -DHEA and 6-oxo)
(save your:"it won't work". I like to do experiments and have never seen studies that a tribulus with the right ingredients won't work)
- 10-14-2004, 09:33 AM
- 10-14-2004, 09:55 AM
LOL You don't need anti-estrogen. It won't increase your test to the point where you need antiestrogen. But I'd like to see what kind of results you'll get. Good luck.
10-14-2004, 10:20 AM
Well, actually I think it will be necessary though a mild/light dose anti-estrogen would suffice. Please read this:Originally Posted by DmitryWI
When the supplement Tribestan® was given to healthy men (Milanov, 1981) in a dose of 750 milligrams per day for five days, LH and testosterone were elevated 72% and 40% respectively. As you might expect, estradiol was also elevated. In fact estradiol was elevated by 81%! The increase in testosterone is obviously what all the fuss is about, nevertheless, you can’t ignore the fact that whenever you increase testosterone you are going to increase aromatization and therefore estrogen levels. To put these changes in hormone levels into perspective, the reference range for testosterone in men is between 300 - 1,000 ng/dL. The subjects in this study started out with an average of 600 ng/dL and ended up with about 850 ng/dL. This is still well within the "normal" range for men. Estradiol on the other hand went from normal levels of about 76 pg/ml to significantly elevated levels of 137.5 pg/ml. This is well above normal levels which range from about 20-80 pg/ml in men.
10-14-2004, 10:21 AM
10-14-2004, 10:31 AM
Well I must admit that if it turns out to work I doubt it will be of much value as the results won't be astonishing and the product is very expensive, especially if you use maximum dose. 26 bucks per 10 days for an testosterone increase of maybe 1/3 if lucky is not that cheap. So I think the gains/costs ratio is not that good but as I said I just wanted to experiment if tribulus (a good one) really doesn't work.Originally Posted by sir.kevin
I will post the results but I'm cutting right now as I bulked through whole summer and have to cut bodyfat first before I'm going to bulk again. Guess it'll be january.
10-14-2004, 02:24 PM
I have to wonder if you use an anti e would that affect the results. studies show using only an anti e raises test too. so you might be better off trying it by itself.
10-14-2004, 02:34 PM
Yeah you've got a point. Maybe that's what I do. But the problem is the above normal estradiol levels in the example above and I've read about some guys getting gyno on high doses of trib.Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2
But ok, thinking of running it solo and then close monitoring if any gyno symptoms show up.
Everybody thanks for their input so far.
(btw: English is not my first language so there may be some not that well formulated sentences )
10-14-2004, 07:19 PM
ZMA, or even Zinc gluconate, will act as an aromatase inhibitor. Its cheap and safe. I don't know exactly how effective it is, but I started to feel the effects a couple weeks after I started taking it. If you want to test the effect of just the Trib, you'd have to start taking the zinc for a few weeks before you started your experiment. That way you couldn't confuse a test increase from zinc with a test increase from Trib.
10-15-2004, 04:40 AM
all trib does(and you have to find a good trib,biotest tribex works) elevates lh making test levels in the high normal range.i was taking tribex at 4-5 grams a day..i think 3 grams works just as good..yes if u find a goodbrand itll increase your test levels i can tell u that...but it must be an effective brand(twinlab doesnt work right) biotest tribex is the only one i know of that works
10-15-2004, 01:11 PM
How do you know it increased your test level? Did you have blood work done before during after? Or you just feel it works. (I'm pretty skeptical about any brand of tribullus, as you can see)Originally Posted by smeton_yea
10-15-2004, 03:12 PM
10-15-2004, 09:00 PM
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