Type 2 Diabetic Supplements

[mrmoose63]

Recently diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes I have an average fasting glucose of ~300mg/dl. I'm currently on 2g of Metformin and 5mg of Glyburide. While they are helping a bit I am wondering if there may be any very strong supplements out there that either mimic insulin or could dispose of glucose via other pathways. I'm talking stuff that would make a normal person go hypo. Any ideas?

 

[T-Bone]

Not a good idea to mess with your blood sugar if you are already on medication for it. I'd simply let the drugs do there job.

 

[mrmoose63]

Not a good idea to mess with your blood sugar if you are already on medication for it. I'd simply let the drugs do there job.

Typically I would agree with you, however after a month and a half with no progress I am trying to figure out other modalities to get this under control. Based on what I have read, with my blood sugar average and my lack of response to the drugs, I should really be on insulin, but in the mean time my doc wants to try every combination of oral medication under the sun, meanwhile I am killing more beta cells while my sugars are this high.

Any help, supplements, diet or otherwise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MAxximal]

Recently diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes I have an average fasting glucose of ~300mg/dl. I'm currently on 2g of Metformin and 5mg of Glyburide. While they are helping a bit I am wondering if there may be any very strong supplements out there that either mimic insulin or could dispose of glucose via other pathways. I'm talking stuff that would make a normal person go hypo. Any ideas?

Did you have a thyroid lab?

 

[RecompMan]

Recompadrol has been showed to aid in all matters concerning type 2 diabetes

It was designed for that and happens to work synergistically with metformin

I'd be careful adding things into your regimen. My uncle used metformin with recompadrol alone for glucose control with great success

 

[RecompMan]

I wouldn't recommend anything with a sulphylurea. That can drive glucose dangerously low.

 

[mrmoose63]

Did you have a thyroid lab?

Only Thyroid Lab they ran was TSH at 1.3

 

[RecompMan]

Only Thyroid Lab they ran was TSH at 1.3

Did you get rT3 tested as well. That can show signs of leptin resistance.

Post up all numbers.

When recompadrol is back in stock I'll send you the AAv2 & Recompadrol stack to help manage your diabetes and possible leptin resistance.

Hopefully aid your glucose levels and correct leptin problems.

If be careful with the glyburide while on it. If your interested let me know and when available ill send it out

A log would be great to help show increase in glucose control and weight loss

 

[MAxximal]

Did you get rT3 tested as well. That can show signs of leptin resistance.

Post up all numbers.

When recompadrol is back in stock I'll send you the AAv2 & Recompadrol stack to help manage your diabetes and possible leptin resistance.

Hopefully aid your glucose levels and correct leptin problems.

If be careful with the glyburide while on it. If your interested let me know and when available ill send it out

A log would be great to help show increase in glucose control and weight loss

x2!

 

[mrmoose63]

Lab Results:
Test Result Range

Outliers:
Vitamin B12 >1000 239-931 High
Chloride 97 98-107 Low
Glucose 382 70-110 Super High
SGOT (AST) 2 15-37 Low
SGPT (ALT 73 30-65 High
ALK Phos 170 50-136 High
Triglycerides 1949 20-150 Super High (This is not a typo)
Cholesterol 273 50-200 High
HDL 25 35-60 Low
Vitamin D 29 30-80 Low
HA1c 12.1 4.5 - 6.0 Super High
Estimated Glucose 301

Everything Else:
TSH 1.36 .34-4382
CK 65 39-308
Sodium 137 136-145
Potassium 3.8 3.5-5.1
Carbon Dioxide 26 21-32
Anion Gap 14 5-15
Calcium 8.9 8.5-10.1
Bun 7 7-21
Creatinine .82 .8-1.3
Bili .9 0-1
Protein 7.8 6.4-8.2
Albumin 4.3 3.4-5.0
LDL 58 20-129

As you can see I'm pretty messed up, but from what the doc says it is generally all related to the elevated glucose. I have diabetes (both insulin dependent and not) that runs on both sides of my family.

I was diagnosed on 4/28 so I have been trying to figure out what type of diet, exercises, drug and supplement plan to follow. What I am noticing is the lower carb the better.

Fasting Glucose Since starting 5mg Glyburide on 5/22
5/22 375
5/23 338
5/24 314
5/25 307
5/26 298
5/27 313
5/28 289

 

[mrmoose63]

Did you get rT3 tested as well. That can show signs of leptin resistance.

Post up all numbers.

When recompadrol is back in stock I'll send you the AAv2 & Recompadrol stack to help manage your diabetes and possible leptin resistance.

Hopefully aid your glucose levels and correct leptin problems.

If be careful with the glyburide while on it. If your interested let me know and when available ill send it out

A log would be great to help show increase in glucose control and weight loss

Unfortunately the doc didn't choose to run the rT3. There were quite a few things I was hoping for that they didn't run, but that is the rub with an HMO I guess.

I would love the opportunity to test out the AAv2 and Recompadrol stack. I am more than willing to run a log with as much detail as you'd be interested in. I could provide daily diet, workout, blood glucose levels (including some postprandial) as well as the future lab I am scheduled for in July. It would be awesome if this stack could get me off of the glyburide. I really don't like that stuff, or at least the concept of how it works (forcing an already messed up pancreas to pump out more insulin)

 

[RecompMan]

I'm going to respond to this when I et on my computer

 

[RecompMan]

Unfortunately the doc didn't choose to run the rT3. There were quite a few things I was hoping for that they didn't run, but that is the rub with an HMO I guess.

I would love the opportunity to test out the AAv2 and Recompadrol stack. I am more than willing to run a log with as much detail as you'd be interested in. I could provide daily diet, workout, blood glucose levels (including some postprandial) as well as the future lab I am scheduled for in July. It would be awesome if this stack could get me off of the glyburide. I really don't like that stuff, or at least the concept of how it works (forcing an already messed up pancreas to pump out more insulin)

Glyburide wont help if your pancreas doesnt function. Considering its a sulphonylurea, it forces your pancreas to secrete more.

I would recommenda a C-peptide test, as well and intensive insulin therapy in the mean time. If there is any resistance in the liver to insulin, Amylin (symlin) or GLP1 (byetta), would help even more.

Im hoping 10 more days untill i have product in hand in which i will send you a bottle of each.

 

[mrmoose63]

Glyburide wont help if your pancreas doesnt function. Considering its a sulphonylurea, it forces your pancreas to secrete more.

I would recommenda a C-peptide test, as well and intensive insulin therapy in the mean time. If there is any resistance in the liver to insulin, Amylin (symlin) or GLP1 (byetta), would help even more.

Im hoping 10 more days untill i have product in hand in which i will send you a bottle of each.

After a bit of research, I would agree with your general inclination that I may not be producing a whole lot of insulin, otherwise the glyburide/metformin should be working much better/quicker from what I've read. I was a bit surprised I wasn't put on insulin yet, especially given over a month of elevated numbers in the 300 range, but both doctors seem to have the same mind frame. Orals first (probably until my pancreas really craps out from glucotoxicity), then basal insulin. From what I've read basal is crap, especially for numbers as high as mine. I wish I could find a legit doctor, but I'm running out of options in my local area on my HMO.

Other than talking to my doc about changing drug, and trying out the supplement stack, do you have any other advise that may help out? You seem quite knowledgeable on this topic.

I greatly appreciate all of your help, finding out I'm diabetic has been a very frustrating ride for me.

 

[RecompMan]

After a bit of research, I would agree with your general inclination that I may not be producing a whole lot of insulin, otherwise the glyburide/metformin should be working much better/quicker from what I've read. I was a bit surprised I wasn't put on insulin yet, especially given over a month of elevated numbers in the 300 range, but both doctors seem to have the same mind frame. Orals first (probably until my pancreas really craps out from glucotoxicity), then basal insulin. From what I've read basal is crap, especially for numbers as high as mine. I wish I could find a legit doctor, but I'm running out of options in my local area on my HMO.

Other than talking to my doc about changing drug, and trying out the supplement stack, do you have any other advise that may help out? You seem quite knowledgeable on this topic.

I greatly appreciate all of your help, finding out I'm diabetic has been a very frustrating ride for me.

Yea. Insurance covers humalog. You shouldn't need a script I recommend using it. starting slow at a 1:20 insulin units: carb ratio

Take it from there. Start off slow on the insulin.

 

[mrmoose63]

Ahh I missed your most recent comment some how. It looks like we were thinking the same thing.

Interestingly enough I went to the pharmacy and they would only provide humulin r without a prescription and only give me 10 syringes. I've been taking a shot about 15minutes before dinner the last two nights.

First time I took 15units with 75g of carbs (1 to 5 ratio) and my following fasting figure was 205. Last night I took 20units with 125g of carbs (1 to 6.25 ratio and my fasting figure was 260. Next I plan to do a 1 to 4 ratio, 12.5units with a 50g carb lunch and I'll report back on my prandial numbers.

Insurance won't cover anything without a script so 1 vial was $85

I really appreciate your help on this. I have an appt with another doc on the 18th so hopefully they'll be more receptive to my needs/requests

 

[mrmoose63]

Would you by chance have any specific recommendations regarding diet? Diabetic Diets are ALL over the place and many contradict each other.

I definitely have some fat to lose, and so far I'm up about 4lbs with the insulin (I must have been quite depleted). I already feel MUCH stronger, it is quite interesting the difference. The sense of well being was quite pronounced as well. I can only imagine what it'll be like once my glucose is closer to 100mg/dl.

 

[RecompMan]

Did you take the metformin with the shot of insulin?

 

[RecompMan]

Would you by chance have any specific recommendations regarding diet? Diabetic Diets are ALL over the place and many contradict each other.

I definitely have some fat to lose, and so far I'm up about 4lbs with the insulin (I must have been quite depleted). I already feel MUCH stronger, it is quite interesting the difference. The sense of well being was quite pronounced as well. I can only imagine what it'll be like once my glucose is closer to 100mg/dl.

I'll have to do this at home. I'm away from the computer now

 

[mrmoose63]

Did you take the metformin with the shot of insulin?

Yes 1000mg

 

[RecompMan]

Ok. We will get you there.

I'll figure out correction doses for insulin therapy as well for you

 

[Novice 58]

2.5 years ago I was diagnosed. I was out of shape to begin with. I had just stopped smoking so my diet was worse than usual, I had a new job that was very sedentary, and I was on a rx of decadron for an injury. The decadron brought it on quickly. I started to notice my eyesight was getting worse. I was up all night pissing. I couldnt drink enough liquids. As to top it all off, I had a nasty yeast infection. When I went back to the doc and got tested, my glucose was close to 500.

They immediately gave me a rx for lantis and got me an appt with the Endo. By the time I was straightened out I was on actos+ metformin ( oral meds). 40 units of lantis and about 45 units of novalog/ day. I was 6'5". 310 lbs and about 30% bf. the Endo told me I would probably be on that suite of meds for life. My goal was to improve my fitness to the point where I could drop the novalog at each meal.

I joined the gym and started hitting the weights and made some improvements. In a few months I was pretty strong and had made some progress in reducing my insulin requirements. I always liked moving the weights. However it was clear that I needed to drop weight if I was going to win.


For the next 6 Months it was calories as low as I could stand, very moderate carbs and as much cardio as I could push out of myself.

I bottomed out at 247, 15% bf. I have since gained some muscle back and kept my bf% and panst size the same. I take no insulin and no oral meds. My fasting glucose is very close to 120 and my a1c is 5.3 to 5.6.

I am kind proud of that story. Thanks for listening.

I have to admit, I haven't read this thread in detail. I will go back through it and see if I have anything specific to add. For now, I would say the following:

Improve your body composition as quickly and effectively as you can. Tons of advice on this site That how I ended up here. If you are already 12% bf, then as far as I know, you may be chained to meds, but I can tell you, the leaner you are, the less insulin resistance.

In addition to helping lose weight, low carbs and cardio will help control your blood glucose over the course of the day. My theory is that the easier you can make things on your metabolism (I.e. reducing your immediate insulin reaistance with diet and cardio) , the better chance you have of restoring your glucose control mechanisms over the long haul.


My opinion for what it's worth- if you have to trade off some muscle catobolism to achieve some fat loss and glucose control, it's probably worth it.

Good luck, I'll be following

 

[Novice 58]

Would you by chance have any specific recommendations regarding diet? Diabetic Diets are ALL over the place and many contradict each other.

I definitely have some fat to lose, and so far I'm up about 4lbs with the insulin (I must have been quite depleted). I already feel MUCH stronger, it is quite interesting the difference. The sense of well being was quite pronounced as well. I can only imagine what it'll be like once my glucose is closer to 100mg/dl.

I remember that first meal with my novalog. Wow!!! After months of not getting anything out of the food you have been eating , then to have a small meal that is actually metabolized into some energy- its like being superman. It dosent last forever, but man, if we could bottle that feeling we could be rich.

Diet- just low cal and low carb. Making life as easy on the pancreas over the short term, I believe will help restore function in the long run.

 

[Novice 58]

One more thing:

See if the dr will check your testosterone. Through the course on my diabetes struggle I found out my t was pretty low. Been on various forms of trt ever since Getting a t boost will definitely help with the things you want to do to help with the diabetes.

 

[RecompMan]

Sugars went down a bunch.

I'd recommend 3 meals a day with protein being main constituent.

No snacking. It'll create more issues.

I'd start off easy. 250 protein, 250 carb, 80g fat.

These are numbers off the top of my head. As you manage insulin better you can start dropping carbs.

Be careful exercising if you still have insulin in your system. May cause sugars to drop more.

Email me gmail account I can be much more help.

 

[RecompMan]

Did you start the products?

 

[mrmoose63]

Not yet, I had a doc appt yesterday and I wanted to go to that first. My thought is I wanted a clean baseline with no changes, but the appt went differently than I anticipated. Basically my doctor doesn't agree with my starting of the insulin and they don't agree that it is necessary. At least not at this point, so they did not provide a script and while I can get the insulin OTC (but super expensive), no pharmacy around here would sell the syringes without a script. So now the focus of the log will be if I can utilize the supplements without insulin, so I may need to tweak the diet around to get to that point.

 

[RecompMan]

What other plan of action does he have. It's protocol to do it the way you were.

Also, shoot me an email.

 

[mrmoose63]

They feel that it is too "early" to jump to insulin. They want to increase the glyburide and see how that effects my fasting numbers. Needless to say I put in to transfer doctors. I have another appt on Tuesday, hopefully they'll be more openminded. In the mean time I will start up the logs as mentioned.

Email coming your way.

 

[RecompMan]

More of a SU to what seems like a damaged pancreas. That'll make it worse. Most CDEs would advise against that

 

[CopyCat]

What does your diet currently look like? My wife has gestational diabetes. I have moved her to the zone diet and somewhat paleo and this has helped quite a bit actually. All of her carbs are coming from fruits and vegetables as we hVe cut out all refined sugars, starches, gluten etc. I also use my juicer and make a fresh juice comprising mostly of leafy green veggies, but some hard fruits and vegetables for her for breakfast to go with her eggs in the mornings. Her fasting glucose is now about 90 give or take which is much better then what it was and her sugars during day time meals have been in the 1teens which is a big improvement as well.

 

[cuba]

Sorry to hear about your problems.it must be frustrating to know you need insulin but the doc won't give it.Ive been type 1 diabetic for 22 yrs,I'm 36 now and for years I struggled to control my sugar levels despite food being measured out and carefully balancing out carbs against insulin.It seemed to me that the more insulin I took the more tired I became and my hunger was never satisfied.Seemed like if I went by the regime my dietician diabetic specialist etc advised I was just going to keep getting fat.I kinda of fell out with the specialists (in my own head)lol and followed what I had always thought myself eg if I cut back on the reason I'm having to take insulin which is carbs.For the last 3-4 yrs I've followed a low carb diet and I've more energy now than I ever had.Im on a low carb not no carb as I take the occasional piece of fruit and yogurts but no bread spuds rice or pasta.ive started weightlifting about 6 weeks ago since my arthritis has nearly dissappeared all thanks to the low carb diet.
Anything I can ever do to help you don't hesitate to pm me.
Ps there's some very knowledgeable guys on here and I wonder if anyone can tell me is my main largest dose of insulin best given within the 2 hr post workout period ?

 

[RecompMan]

Sorry to hear about your problems.it must be frustrating to know you need insulin but the doc won't give it.Ive been type 1 diabetic for 22 yrs,I'm 36 now and for years I struggled to control my sugar levels despite food being measured out and carefully balancing out carbs against insulin.It seemed to me that the more insulin I took the more tired I became and my hunger was never satisfied.Seemed like if I went by the regime my dietician diabetic specialist etc advised I was just going to keep getting fat.I kinda of fell out with the specialists (in my own head)lol and followed what I had always thought myself eg if I cut back on the reason I'm having to take insulin which is carbs.For the last 3-4 yrs I've followed a low carb diet and I've more energy now than I ever had.Im on a low carb not no carb as I take the occasional piece of fruit and yogurts but no bread spuds rice or pasta.ive started weightlifting about 6 weeks ago since my arthritis has nearly dissappeared all thanks to the low carb diet.
Anything I can ever do to help you don't hesitate to pm me.
Ps there's some very knowledgeable guys on here and I wonder if anyone can tell me is my main largest dose of insulin best given within the 2 hr post workout period ?

Less insulin is required post workout due to the workout increasing insulinaensiivity

 

[mrmoose63]

Current Diet is comprised of approximately 2500 calories. I'm emphasizing proteins (eggs, chicken breast, steak etc), low starch vegetables (squash, carrtos, zucchini, broccoli, asparagus), beans, with fats coming from olive oil and coconut oil. I'm trying to keep carbs ~ 200-225g with small portions of corn and sweet potatoes. Also to note I'm only eating 2 meals - lunch and dinner. I've never really been a breakfast guy. I love breakfast foods but not until not in the morning.

Awesome job at getting her gestational diabetes under control. I wish that diet alone would be that beneficial to me, but it seems that my pancreas is needing some significant help these days.

 

[mrmoose63]

If you're interested in following along, check out my log of Recompadrol and AAV2

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/205090-recompadrol-aav2-vs.html