stims that don't use the adrenaline/epinephrine/cortisol pathway?

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  1. Typical sleep needed per night = 5 hours
    Typical sleep needed off of Androdrive = 9 hours


  2. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    I'm not denying that adrenal overuse and burnout can occur in any number of metabolic states. However those rare (and lucky) hyper thyroid individuals tend to just need more nutrients, esp. Vit a. When an individual is hypo, sub clinical hypo, or auto immune hypo, usually their adrenaline/epinephrine/cortisol chemicals have been chronically used up as their body attempted to jury rig the failing system. By the time the wheels have fallen off, there's not enough juice left to cover up all the problems, and hopefully this leads to a proper diagnosis of hypo. Sadly though, esp if someone is sub clinical, they will be diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and given prednisone or cortisone, which will hurt them long term and not address the upstream cause.
    How is somebody with hyperthyroidism lucky?

    Having very high thyroids below the hyperthyroidism mark I'd like to know where my catabolic weight loss abilities pay off?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Its not that I don't value n=1, its more so inferring if intervention XX works for person A and then trying to infer that it will work onto person B. The problem is we don't know if it is X1 that is working, X2 that is working, or if it is only a combination of both. We also don't know why it works, or the baseline of person A compared to person B....and so on down the line.

    Br
    It's true, I think everyone has to experiment on their own with everything.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by SuppBro

    How is somebody with hyperthyroidism lucky?

    Having very high thyroids below the hyperthyroidism mark I'd like to know where my catabolic weight loss abilities pay off?
    I'd trade my hypothyroidism for hyperthyroidism right now.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green
    Typical sleep needed per night = 5 hours
    Typical sleep needed off of Androdrive = 9 hours
    But how is the quality of said sleep?

  6. Subultiamine, CDP-Choline, Alpha-GPC + Huperzine ...

  7. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    I'd trade my hypothyroidism for hyperthyroidism right now.
    But is somebody with either hypo or hyper thyroidism lucky over others with just above average thyroids or higher, but not sub hyper or hyper thyroidism?


    So if I am lucky being sub hyper. How do I utilize it. 3 years and I only have an average BMI of LBM (BMI is trash, just an idea of overall weight after 3 years). I get mentally exhausted easily and my hands are always shakey. I get commented about being shakey sometimes which screamed meth head at people back when I was much lighter than I am now.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    Yes, that's why I'm looking for "least worst". T3 supplementation would be along thesr lines yes?
    That's going to be a general metabolic stimulant, so yeah, I guess that would qualify. Idk if it's effects as a stim are really going to be on par with classical stims though.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by SuppBro

    But is somebody with either hypo or hyper thyroidism lucky over others with just above average thyroids or higher, but not sub hyper or hyper thyroidism?

    So if I am lucky being sub hyper. How do I utilize it. 3 years and I only have an average BMI of LBM (BMI is trash, just an idea of overall weight after 3 years). I get mentally exhausted easily and my hands are always shakey. I get commented about being shakey sometimes which screamed meth head at people back when I was much lighter than I am now.
    A guy I know online is hyper, and treats it by eating lots of calories and simple carbs, extra vitamin a, and makes sure to get extra micronutrients esp. from liver and shellfish. He follows a ray peat style of eating tailored to his personal thyroid function and activity level. He surfer a lot so sun exposure is accounted for with all his extra vitamin a.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by J19891

    That's going to be a general metabolic stimulant, so yeah, I guess that would qualify. Idk if it's effects as a stim are really going to be on par with classical stims though.
    Yeah, I've been on it for a few months now, slowly upping my dosage. It's interesting, more of a long term boost to metabolism.
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  11. nicotine.

    okay, it has indirect adrenergic effects, but the main pathway is through nAChRs

  12. Agreed but the potential for addiction makes this a poor choice

    Quote Originally Posted by smt1 View Post
    nicotine.

    okay, it has indirect adrenergic effects, but the main pathway is through nAChRs
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  13. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    Because adrenal fatigue is probably thyroid fatigue. But a person would need to check their thyroid status. And judo josh is right on, thinking that just "resting" will somehow restore ppl is funny. We are also talking about different populations, probably most on this forum are in above average health, genetically and socially lucky.
    this thread has developed a bit further than this comment, but i do want to chime in.

    the body tends to restore itself to near normal levels without the use of supplements to help combat the issue. most of the time, people tend to compound the issue by adding supplements to the mix and then not stopping.

    also, addressing adrenal fatigue as "probably thyroid fatigue" would be quite the blanket statement, and sounds like a best guess if anything.
    this is the issue of suppression and suppressing one's own body to not allow it to stabilize.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural
    this thread has developed a bit further than this comment, but i do want to chime in.

    the body tends to restore itself to near normal levels without the use of supplements to help combat the issue. most of the time, people tend to compound the issue by adding supplements to the mix and then not stopping.

    also, addressing adrenal fatigue as "probably thyroid fatigue" would be quite the blanket statement, and sounds like a best guess if anything.
    this is the issue of suppression and suppressing one's own body to not allow it to stabilize.
    Thinking that the body will heal itself is very utopian. Body needs the right resources, and needs to be able to use them, 2 very big ifs. I haven't magically healed in the years I've been ill. Stabilization is a myth.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    Thinking that the body will heal itself is very utopian. Body needs the right resources, and needs to be able to use them, 2 very big ifs. I haven't magically healed in the years I've been ill. Stabilization is a myth.
    i truly hope the medical field is not your profession or goal direction.
    if you allow your body time to heal properly, it can overcome quite a bit.
    stabilization is far from a myth. i'm not sure why you started a thread only to offer up a debate, but you seem to go against the grain based on your responses.
    i guess this is where science tends to allow pros and cons for almost everything and each can choose their direction (see: creatine).
    good luck in your endeavors.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural
    i truly hope the medical field is not your profession or goal direction.
    if you allow your body time to heal properly, it can overcome quite a bit.
    stabilization is far from a myth. i'm not sure why you started a thread only to offer up a debate, but you seem to go against the grain based on your responses.
    i guess this is where science tends to allow pros and cons for almost everything and each can choose their direction (see: creatine).
    good luck in your endeavors.
    I have extensive personal experience that directly opposes your idea.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    Agreed but the potential for addiction makes this a poor choice
    Isn't caffeine similar though? I think nicotine screws with blood sugar so its not on my short list of things to try.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by zaire2d
    Subultiamine, CDP-Choline, Alpha-GPC + Huperzine ...
    Hmm, I tend to get choline headaches easily, I can never know if one pill of a-gpc or cdp will push me into the red zone. I do like the feeling of huperzine but again it is cholinergic, so shouldn't be used long term, and that time period of safety vs danger isn't certain.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    Ginseng, B12, Synephrine, Green tea (?), Sulbutamine (?), Low Dosed Alpha-Yohimbine (?), Rhodiola, Adaptagens
    Ginseng tends to push adrenaline, I eat a lot of liver so b12 is full unless I'm somehow not utilizing it correctly, the adaptogens which include rhodiola and ginseng tend to play around with adrenaline and thus aren't what I'm looking for although I have taken long courses f them in the past, they seemed to merely trick me into thinking I was fine.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    I have extensive personal experience that directly opposes your idea.
    personal is the key word.
    results can vary greatly from one person to the next due to various issues.
    i can offer personal experience as an opinion and offer my thoughts on my experience, but one person and their personal experience means very little on the grand scale. your data would be listed out with 100 others and then research data could be drawn.
    i can understand if you feel your body doesn't respond to this supplement or another supplement, but you cannot generalize it and decide that it applies to all. that is how it your previous posts seemed to be directed.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural View Post
    personal is the key word.
    results can vary greatly from one person to the next due to various issues.
    i can offer personal experience as an opinion and offer my thoughts on my experience, but one person and their personal experience means very little on the grand scale. your data would be listed out with 100 others and then research data could be drawn.
    i can understand if you feel your body doesn't respond to this supplement or another supplement, but you cannot generalize it and decide that it applies to all. that is how it your previous posts seemed to be directed.
    In my personal experience, when I admitted myself into rehab for 35 days and was forced to take a break from everything and deal with things through lots of cognitive and spiritual therapy, I noticed a significant 'return to balance' that helped me more than any supplement ever did. Then I started supplements soon after and when therapy wasn't mandatory, etc. I drifted back. This was MY personal experience and it was indeed quite functional. If this is a utopian theory, based on all systems in the utopia working together as a functional whole, than call me a socialist.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green
    In my personal experience, when I admitted myself into rehab for 35 days and was forced to take a break from everything and deal with things through lots of cognitive and spiritual therapy, I noticed a significant 'return to balance' that helped me more than any supplement ever did. Then I started supplements soon after and when therapy wasn't mandatory, etc. I drifted back. This was MY personal experience and it was indeed quite functional. If this is a utopian theory, based on all systems in the utopia working together as a functional whole, than call me a socialist.
    Supplements are not a replacement for behavioral healing. I'm glad you were put in an environment that forced you to stop distracting yourself and focus on learning better choices. I hope you didn't drift back to the place you were before you found some peace, but if you did I hope you're not blaming it on supplements you took.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    Supplements are not a replacement for behavioral healing. I'm glad you were put in an environment that forced you to stop distracting yourself and focus on learning better choices. I hope you didn't drift back to the place you were before you found some peace, but if you did I hope you're not blaming it on supplements you took.
    Thanks dsohei. One thing that I am working on now (and am pretty close to completing) is releasing blame and accepting that I am responsible for what happens to me based on choices I make. I am clean from any illicit substances, but I am trying to take on too many things at once and I find myself not accomplishing a whole lot lately.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural
    personal is the key word.
    results can vary greatly from one person to the next due to various issues.
    i can offer personal experience as an opinion and offer my thoughts on my experience, but one person and their personal experience means very little on the grand scale. your data would be listed out with 100 others and then research data could be drawn.
    i can understand if you feel your body doesn't respond to this supplement or another supplement, but you cannot generalize it and decide that it applies to all. that is how it your previous posts seemed to be directed.
    My goal is not to invent a silver bullet. I believe everyone is different enough to warrant diligent self experimentation and data tracking. However, believing that the body will heal or stabilize itself to a similar or enhanced level is against natural laws. Every living thing on this planet is in a state of decay, some faster some slower. If the organism doesn't have the right resources, somehow can't use the right resources, is being blocked by a substance etc, then it will decay faster. Young people, genetically and culturally lucky people seem to heal quickly due to large amounts of youth hormones. Once those hormones are used up or are made in smaller amounts, decay or aging occurs.

    Again, I am less concerned with certainty or the average consensus than I am with personal experimentation and data sharing.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green
    Thanks dsohei. One thing that I am working on now (and am pretty close to completing) is releasing blame and accepting that I am responsible for what happens to me based on choices I make. I am clean from any illicit substances, but I am trying to take on too many things at once and I find myself not accomplishing a whole lot lately.
    In my twenties I was on one kind of bender after another, substances and emotional craziness. It wasn't until I started a 6 year meditation program that I moved past it all (this isn't bragging, "moving past" trauma and deeply held beliefs often looks like a nervous breakdown itself). All of the non physical skills, whether they're called emotional, social, communicative, creative, empathic... Exist intertwined with physiological and biochemical health. Do both and both sets will advance together.

    Force of green, once you know your weak spots, you can outsmart yourself before you get too far off the rails. Track the data. I know that I start making bad choices if I drink alcohol so I stopped, also if I start becoming obsessed about something or think I only have a few choices in a situation - these are clues that my weak spot had been hooked and I can choose to unhook it.
  

  
 

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