stims that don't use the adrenaline/epinephrine/cortisol pathway?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green
    Andro Drive, the best neurosteroid formula I've used.
    I plan on trying this out


  2. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    I plan on trying this out
    I was very careful in using it, as I am on a low dose of Librium everyday and am extremely sensetive to stimulants that have effects on the peripheral nervous system. A cup of coffee can have me all twitchy at this point. I feel the urge to do things while on Andro Drive and have the energy to make it happen. It doesn't effect my anxiety at all. I think anxiety is mostly due to the lack of will to act and the fact that there is a lot of procrastination and regret that the opportunity had been missed, etc. and it's a vicious circle to break. Be sure to start at the lowest dose and give it a week. If the effects are where you want, don't up the dose.
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  3. I agree 100% w/ FoG.
    When I was on AD I never felt the need for caffeine or any other stimulants like I normally would

  4. Quote Originally Posted by McBurly
    I agree 100% w/ FoG.
    When I was on AD I never felt the need for caffeine or any other stimulants like I normally would
    That's great, as I am a bit over reliant on caffeine lately.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    So u don't value n=1, that's great. And if u are the guy in your profile pic then u don't need to. Like it or not, you are a lucky one. As for the study, I would have to wonder if there aren't some groups if people who believe that pumping out adrenaline 24/7 is desirable. Hell it feels great.
    Its not that I don't value n=1, its more so inferring if intervention XX works for person A and then trying to infer that it will work onto person B. The problem is we don't know if it is X1 that is working, X2 that is working, or if it is only a combination of both. We also don't know why it works, or the baseline of person A compared to person B....and so on down the line.



    Br
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  6. Typical sleep needed per night = 5 hours
    Typical sleep needed off of Androdrive = 9 hours

  7. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    I'm not denying that adrenal overuse and burnout can occur in any number of metabolic states. However those rare (and lucky) hyper thyroid individuals tend to just need more nutrients, esp. Vit a. When an individual is hypo, sub clinical hypo, or auto immune hypo, usually their adrenaline/epinephrine/cortisol chemicals have been chronically used up as their body attempted to jury rig the failing system. By the time the wheels have fallen off, there's not enough juice left to cover up all the problems, and hopefully this leads to a proper diagnosis of hypo. Sadly though, esp if someone is sub clinical, they will be diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and given prednisone or cortisone, which will hurt them long term and not address the upstream cause.
    How is somebody with hyperthyroidism lucky?

    Having very high thyroids below the hyperthyroidism mark I'd like to know where my catabolic weight loss abilities pay off?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Its not that I don't value n=1, its more so inferring if intervention XX works for person A and then trying to infer that it will work onto person B. The problem is we don't know if it is X1 that is working, X2 that is working, or if it is only a combination of both. We also don't know why it works, or the baseline of person A compared to person B....and so on down the line.

    Br
    It's true, I think everyone has to experiment on their own with everything.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by SuppBro

    How is somebody with hyperthyroidism lucky?

    Having very high thyroids below the hyperthyroidism mark I'd like to know where my catabolic weight loss abilities pay off?
    I'd trade my hypothyroidism for hyperthyroidism right now.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green
    Typical sleep needed per night = 5 hours
    Typical sleep needed off of Androdrive = 9 hours
    But how is the quality of said sleep?

  11. Subultiamine, CDP-Choline, Alpha-GPC + Huperzine ...

  12. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    I'd trade my hypothyroidism for hyperthyroidism right now.
    But is somebody with either hypo or hyper thyroidism lucky over others with just above average thyroids or higher, but not sub hyper or hyper thyroidism?


    So if I am lucky being sub hyper. How do I utilize it. 3 years and I only have an average BMI of LBM (BMI is trash, just an idea of overall weight after 3 years). I get mentally exhausted easily and my hands are always shakey. I get commented about being shakey sometimes which screamed meth head at people back when I was much lighter than I am now.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    Yes, that's why I'm looking for "least worst". T3 supplementation would be along thesr lines yes?
    That's going to be a general metabolic stimulant, so yeah, I guess that would qualify. Idk if it's effects as a stim are really going to be on par with classical stims though.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by SuppBro

    But is somebody with either hypo or hyper thyroidism lucky over others with just above average thyroids or higher, but not sub hyper or hyper thyroidism?

    So if I am lucky being sub hyper. How do I utilize it. 3 years and I only have an average BMI of LBM (BMI is trash, just an idea of overall weight after 3 years). I get mentally exhausted easily and my hands are always shakey. I get commented about being shakey sometimes which screamed meth head at people back when I was much lighter than I am now.
    A guy I know online is hyper, and treats it by eating lots of calories and simple carbs, extra vitamin a, and makes sure to get extra micronutrients esp. from liver and shellfish. He follows a ray peat style of eating tailored to his personal thyroid function and activity level. He surfer a lot so sun exposure is accounted for with all his extra vitamin a.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by J19891

    That's going to be a general metabolic stimulant, so yeah, I guess that would qualify. Idk if it's effects as a stim are really going to be on par with classical stims though.
    Yeah, I've been on it for a few months now, slowly upping my dosage. It's interesting, more of a long term boost to metabolism.

  16. nicotine.

    okay, it has indirect adrenergic effects, but the main pathway is through nAChRs

  17. Agreed but the potential for addiction makes this a poor choice

    Quote Originally Posted by smt1 View Post
    nicotine.

    okay, it has indirect adrenergic effects, but the main pathway is through nAChRs
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7

  18. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    Because adrenal fatigue is probably thyroid fatigue. But a person would need to check their thyroid status. And judo josh is right on, thinking that just "resting" will somehow restore ppl is funny. We are also talking about different populations, probably most on this forum are in above average health, genetically and socially lucky.
    this thread has developed a bit further than this comment, but i do want to chime in.

    the body tends to restore itself to near normal levels without the use of supplements to help combat the issue. most of the time, people tend to compound the issue by adding supplements to the mix and then not stopping.

    also, addressing adrenal fatigue as "probably thyroid fatigue" would be quite the blanket statement, and sounds like a best guess if anything.
    this is the issue of suppression and suppressing one's own body to not allow it to stabilize.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural
    this thread has developed a bit further than this comment, but i do want to chime in.

    the body tends to restore itself to near normal levels without the use of supplements to help combat the issue. most of the time, people tend to compound the issue by adding supplements to the mix and then not stopping.

    also, addressing adrenal fatigue as "probably thyroid fatigue" would be quite the blanket statement, and sounds like a best guess if anything.
    this is the issue of suppression and suppressing one's own body to not allow it to stabilize.
    Thinking that the body will heal itself is very utopian. Body needs the right resources, and needs to be able to use them, 2 very big ifs. I haven't magically healed in the years I've been ill. Stabilization is a myth.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    Thinking that the body will heal itself is very utopian. Body needs the right resources, and needs to be able to use them, 2 very big ifs. I haven't magically healed in the years I've been ill. Stabilization is a myth.
    i truly hope the medical field is not your profession or goal direction.
    if you allow your body time to heal properly, it can overcome quite a bit.
    stabilization is far from a myth. i'm not sure why you started a thread only to offer up a debate, but you seem to go against the grain based on your responses.
    i guess this is where science tends to allow pros and cons for almost everything and each can choose their direction (see: creatine).
    good luck in your endeavors.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Bnatural
    i truly hope the medical field is not your profession or goal direction.
    if you allow your body time to heal properly, it can overcome quite a bit.
    stabilization is far from a myth. i'm not sure why you started a thread only to offer up a debate, but you seem to go against the grain based on your responses.
    i guess this is where science tends to allow pros and cons for almost everything and each can choose their direction (see: creatine).
    good luck in your endeavors.
    I have extensive personal experience that directly opposes your idea.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    Agreed but the potential for addiction makes this a poor choice
    Isn't caffeine similar though? I think nicotine screws with blood sugar so its not on my short list of things to try.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by zaire2d
    Subultiamine, CDP-Choline, Alpha-GPC + Huperzine ...
    Hmm, I tend to get choline headaches easily, I can never know if one pill of a-gpc or cdp will push me into the red zone. I do like the feeling of huperzine but again it is cholinergic, so shouldn't be used long term, and that time period of safety vs danger isn't certain.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    Ginseng, B12, Synephrine, Green tea (?), Sulbutamine (?), Low Dosed Alpha-Yohimbine (?), Rhodiola, Adaptagens
    Ginseng tends to push adrenaline, I eat a lot of liver so b12 is full unless I'm somehow not utilizing it correctly, the adaptogens which include rhodiola and ginseng tend to play around with adrenaline and thus aren't what I'm looking for although I have taken long courses f them in the past, they seemed to merely trick me into thinking I was fine.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by dsohei View Post
    I have extensive personal experience that directly opposes your idea.
    personal is the key word.
    results can vary greatly from one person to the next due to various issues.
    i can offer personal experience as an opinion and offer my thoughts on my experience, but one person and their personal experience means very little on the grand scale. your data would be listed out with 100 others and then research data could be drawn.
    i can understand if you feel your body doesn't respond to this supplement or another supplement, but you cannot generalize it and decide that it applies to all. that is how it your previous posts seemed to be directed.
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