In no way was I comparing the two. Perhaps you need to reread the posts that were made and actually the entire thread in order to understand what is being asked here. A gentleman is looking for a pre-game supplement for baseball. This is NOT a call out for AX nor iForce. This is a general help thread. Rather than walking in and dropping a name, I chose to explain to the OP and others why something might be beneficial. And you are incorrect in your assumption thatis a stim-based product.
No...it contains theobromine which is a stim. This means the product contains stimulants. Is it a stim heavy product? Absolutely not, but the FACT here is that the product contains stimulants.
There are many components out there that will not induce a stimulatory feeling at a certain dose but will at others. Case in point here is the theobromine in Ultra Reps. The dosing is negligible at best, and only there in minute amounts to get the touch of one desired effect. The dosing is NOT enough to be a stimulant. Period. If you disagree, I'll be glad to find the information and a few others who would be willing to add to the non-stim effects of a minute amount of theobromine.
1mg of terrestris in a product makes that product contain . 1mg of theobromine makes that product contain a stimulant.
As for bringing up the past... Class act right there, Vaughn.
Again, this is a fact. You're sitting here telling us things as if we SHOULD trust you. Trust is built...and you guys just don't seem to understand that.
Do I really need to tell folks about how you tried on numerous occasions to infiltrate the AX board to gain inside knowledge, even going to the point of approaching one of our contracted formulators for information? Does everyone really need to hear the long history that you have with many many many companies out here in forum land? I doubt it. Nobody wants to see what's behind the curtain. They just want the wizard to grant their wishes and go home.
LOL this I would honestly love to hear. On the AX board? I think the last time I was there was when you guys were releasing 3-ad(aka 11oxo), and I was curious what you were releasing...because I wanted to buy some.
And approaching one of your formulators? LOL what? Please, do tell.
You my post, and you attack Clickster's, and yet he STILL pointed out a flaw in your little "we get perfect scores" routine. Just because a few users give you anecdotal evidence that something you gave them for free is bro-awesome does not mean that it is actually as good as it is marketed to be. Check the logz, bro is NOT scientific evidence that a product is effective!! It's merely a set of opinions, and everyone has 'em...just like another body part which some forum users here can identify with more than others. But if you want some science and not some bro-science, what sort of novel ingredients are you bringing to the table these days?
lets see, to date iForce has released these novel compounds:
4. 7-methoxy flavone
And we have another 2 novel ingredients being used in the new (one of which will be in the upcoming Max as well).
But yes, I do believe we fall short of designer stimulants. I'll leave that to "other" companies.
Hmm? In fact, how is it that you even survived after the big raid a few years ago? Everyone is familiar with the fact that iForce had MANY more items on that list of infractions than AX did. Difference is, AX took that slap and grew with it. We learned the lessons, and in the process of reformulating EVERYTHING - business model included - we came out with a way to do it all in a manner that is 100% compliant, no questions to be asked, not even refuted. The products that are produced now are not just a shuffle of old ingredients or taking something popular from a competitor and reworking it to suit your market needs. That's the way you play, not AX. And as for the whole "rep game", please...
So is that why iForce had a 125k fine from the FDA and AX had a 500k fine?
Also, take a look at our "offenses"...we put steronz in our steronz. Each of our labels stated EXACTLY what was in the product. What did you guys get in trouble for again?
Its funny...iForce is more than 2x as big now as we were when the raids happened, yet you're curious how we've survived? LOL iForce is more popular now than ever, and for good reason. We make damn effective products.
Vaughn, we are all QUITE familiar with the way you operate on these boards. Jump in, say something big, and run away. Most times you don't even come back to a thread that you've done this in. Whether it be arrogance or just your pimp strategy, it's crappy customer service. We've seen your rep game and how you try to model your crew to push iForce. It's the same thing - jump in, downplay a product from a competitor with everything you can muster, including slanderous remarks, and then namedrop something from iForce and leave. Ya know what? In the long run, that doesn't work. You leave NO information for people about your products. You help extremely little when it comes to actual knowledge of said products or how to implement them. You offer nothing but petty little jabs and a canned list of quotes that serve your little purpose. Point is, your marketing strategy is transparent, wearing thin on people on every forum, and it sucks for the consumer. Push all you want... you are an antique.
I don't understand...what would I run from?
If you think Ultra Reps is the end all be all, please post some science proving it. I'm more than happy to be educated, and admit I'm wrong.
I will put my reps against yours any day of the week. No, this isn't about selling any da*n products! I don't give a lick what AX sells. This forum and these people are here for HELP. They don't always want to be told a name just so that they have something to look at. They want to know information, what's best for them, and if a rep or forum user is good enough, they'll take it to the next level and help them personally with absolutely EVERYTHING that they need. You can cater your bro-science to all the newbies all you want. There's always going to be someone out there who is attracted to something just because the name is put in front of them with neon lights. We all start out innocent, inexperienced, and relatively ignorant of this world. But when people mature and actually want information and help beyond a name drop, where are you going to be? What exactly are you going to do? I know, how about we drop a product name!! Great idea - and here's a perfect example for everyone to read: Phenibut`s effects on the heart?
Cliffs, bra? Sure... Older gentleman with congestive heart failure is asking about the sides from . And what is the help here?
Yeah... Let's just slap that there name everywhere we can, shall we? Seriously, get a handle on it. I don't know if you are going for google hits or what, but that example is not only a retardation of the thread but BAD ADVISE TO SOMEONE WITH A SERIOUS HEART CONDITION.
You seemed to have missed my post in that thread
I stated publicly then that the way he answered that question was incorrect, and spoke to him about it. Not sure what else I can do...i agree that simply pushing the product in that way was not the best idea. Nik can get very excited at times which makes him a great guy, but information like this isn't the best to give out.
OP - as others have stated, get with a doctor. With a heart condition such as yours, I would use supplements EXTREMELY infrequently.
wow strong 2 page rant. My thoughts in red for ya