Best Pre-game Baseball Supplement

[VinnyPaz]

Any suggestions as to what supplement to use (for focus and power)?

Right now, I'm thinking Craze.

Thanks!

 

[kokobeware2]

Any suggestions as to what supplement to use (for focus and power)?

Right now, I'm thinking Craze.

Thanks!

Age?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Stims prior to athletic events isn't advised IMO.


Id suggest a non-stimulant route like HemaVol to make sure you don't crash, and have all the endurance/power necessary to perform.

 

[bigintensions]

Half of our baseball team takes craze before games. It gives great focus and adrenaline rush for the games. We even got our coach on it. Its awesome! If you don't want stims like Vaughn said hemoval is a great option.

 

[VaughnTrue]

If stims work for ya, no sense not using them. When I played sports I would get too amped up when I used stims and my performance suffered

 

[VinnyPaz]

I'm an OG. 45.

I love Craze pre-workout. I have a feeling that it will be perfect for games. But I was just curious as to whether or not there might be something better out there.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Craze is definitely a popular product. Check out Maximize Intense when you can. Very different "feel" to it, but every review so far has been 10/10 on energy, pumps, and endurance

 

[PrepNwa23]

Honestly if stims work for you why ask us? Beta alanine, COP, citruline malate, LCLT would be my suggestions though I wouldn't use stims.

 

[UncleWade]

If you're looking for something to give you the edge for focus and power in games, I might suggest looking into SNS Focus XT.

With 10g of nootropic combined in an awesome-tasting formula, it delivers an incredible focus, a clean, smooth rush of energy that's very moderate (200mg - not of concern in an athletic context, IMHO) in its dosage of stimulants. Even before working for SNS, I ran a log for it on Bodybuilding.com and found it to be one of the most incredible (and incredibly versatile) preworkout/energy/focus blends available on the market and was very pleased with how it affected me.

In regards to the power aspect which you seek, this is hard to gain over the short term and it may be advised that your training regiment and long-term supplementation regimen should mesh with this goal to give you the most power in a game. As far as compounds that may show acute ergogenic benefits as per clinical studies, however, creatine monohydrate (SNS makes 1200g - 240+ serving - tubs that sell for about ~$17) and creatinol-o-phosphate (SNS makes 90 cap bottles that sell for ~$18) have both been proven to have almost immediate effects as ergogenic aids.

 

[CDMMA]

Honestly I stims work for you why ask us? Beta alanine, COP, citruline malate, LCLT would be my suggestions though I wouldn't use stims.

^

That + nitrates and Cordygen

 

[GHO5T]

Honestly if stims work for you why ask us? Beta alanine, COP, citruline malate, LCLT would be my suggestions though I wouldn't use stims.

Good suggestion here. I would even add in some electrolytes and possibly carbs depending how intense the game/ training is.

 

[D3Baseball]

If Craze works for you pre, it'd probably be great baseball. I think focus increase for a baseball player could be immensely useful. I'm still waiting to get a chance to use Focus XT pre-game...been sidelined with an injury and may honestly never play again.

I'd probably take Focus XT + SAN CM2 (Creatine Nitrate) + something like HemaVol

 

[Clickster]

I wouldn't go with a stim.

I would go with something like AX Ultra Reps or Omega Ultima.

 

[PuZo]

I wouldn't go with a stim.

I would go with something like AX Ultra Reps or Omega Ultima.

Theobromine is a stimulant, Hemavol contains no stims whatsoever.

 

[Clickster]

Theobromine is a stimulant, Hemavol contains no stims whatsoever.

What was your purpose for automatically putting Ultra Reps vs Hemavol?
Did I mention Hemavol once in my post? No I didn't.

Check out Maximize Intense when you can. Very different "feel" to it, but every review so far has been 10/10 on energy, pumps, and endurance

^Not true. There is log in progress on here as we speak where the user didn't give it a "10/10" for those stats on any one day of use. That is while even stacked with Hemavol.

Let's try to be a little fair here for the consumers.

 

[PuZo]

What was your purpose for automatically putting Ultra Reps vs Hemavol? Did I mention Hemavol once in my post? No I didn't.

I mentioned Hemavol because it is a good non-stim option. You also mentioned a product called "Ultra Reps" as being non-stim, which is not true.

Let's try to be a little fair here for the users.

 

[UncleWade]

What was your purpose for automatically putting Ultra Reps vs Hemavol?
Did I mention Hemavol once in my post? No I didn't.



^Not true. There is log in progress on here as we speak where the user didn't give it a "10/10" for those stats on any one day of use. That is while even stacked with Hemavol.

Let's try to be a little fair here for the consumers.

 

[Clemenza]

If you don't get tested, E-Pharm AMP will make the baseball look like a beachball coming in.

 

[Bnatural]

College or High School athletics?
Also, are we talking focus and power in the weightroom? I would hope that is the case as that would/should translate to better performance on the field.
For focus and power I would lean towards Ultra Reps, you are getting Creapure, Taurine, L-Carnosine, and ATP.
With primed creatine stores you are definitely going to see increased power.

Be sure to keep hydrated if you are using creatine, especially during sports.

 

[T-AD]

I mentioned Hemavol because it is a good non-stim option. You also mentioned a product called "Ultra Reps" as being non-stim, which is not true.

Let's try to be a little fair here for the users.

And while we're at it, let's do our homework here, folks. The amount of theobromine contained in Ultra Reps is very low dosed. At this dose, the intent and effect was NOT stimulatory. It does, however, enable the user to breathe deeper and easier, which would be a very good affect for anyone who is looking to increase their performance in athletics of any sort. In addition to this, the main focus of Ultra Reps is to provide the endurance and duration to continue without the painful burn. Just like Carnobolic before it, Ultra Reps greatly fights muscle fatigue, enabling a runner to run longer, a football player to go harder, etc..

Where I get confused with a Hemavol recommendation, as I would with any other supposed "extremely potent pump product" is the case where an athlete actually does get really "pumped" with use. I know that any time I have used a successful product of this sort, my muscles were engorged to the point where I was having difficulty getting a full range of motion. I'm not exactly sure why that would be so helpful in sports. If one is playing baseball, wouldn't a bicep pump inhibit the players ability to fully swing the bat, throwing their natural "aim" off a bit? Would a football player not be able to run quite as well? I see this product more in line for those who are at a gym doing a workout, not for someone in a sports setting. This is the sort of thing that you want in the gym in order to lift more, recover better, and grow. It's NOT what you want if you are looking to increase endurance and performance "on the field".

Happy medium: Use Hemavol or something similar in your training. For the purpose of this thread, use Ultra Reps pre-game.

 

[D2footballjrc]

Jeez kids today. Back when I played football we jammed down a ton of Ibuprofen before the game ;-) If you are running a risk of getting tested I'd just avoid the stims. Our trainers wouldn't allow us to take anything before game in the locker either, heck we weren't even allowed to eat before a football game. We'd be given a protein shake but that was it.

 

[D3Baseball]

Let's remember that baseball is NOT like football, basketball, others in that you don't play the game with an elevated heart rate for the most part. Something stimulant based can be so useful to keep on your toes for the few events in which a player needs to be focused in the course of a few hour game. I would still use something along the lines of a pump product, though. "Pump" aids like creatine nitrate, citrulline, etc do aid in pumps but they are also ergogenic aids -- endurance and performance are increased as well and this could be especially useful to repetitive motion athletes like pitchers or someone that has to squat the entire game like a catcher.

 

[PrepNwa23]

Let's remember that baseball is NOT like football, basketball, others in that you don't play the game with an elevated heart rate for the most part. Something stimulant based can be so useful to keep on your toes for the few events in which a player needs to be focused in the course of a few hour game. I would still use something along the lines of a pump product, though. "Pump" aids like creatine nitrate, citrulline, etc do aid in pumps but they are also ergogenic aids -- endurance and performance are increased as well and this could be especially useful to repetitive motion athletes like pitchers or someone that has to squat the entire game like a catcher.

I'd still hate to take a stim based product and be coming down off of it during the 7th to 9th inning. But that's just me im stim sensitive it would obviously have to be user dependent.

 

[T-AD]

I'd still hate to take a stim based product and be coming down off of it during the 7th to 9th inning. But that's just me im stim sensitive it would obviously have to be user dependent.

And that's precisely why it wouldn't be advisable to take a stim-based pre-w/o before a baseball game, particularly one with either a buttload of caffeine or 1,3 in it. Now if there were something else that would last the whole 9 innings, or atleast a pre- that would get your mind in gear for hours on end and have a good, solid wave of energy without any sort of crash at all... and perhaps even a little of that "pump" that people seem to be so fond of... THEN you might have something here...

nuff said.

 

[996ttelise]

Baseball. Seriously. Played for years and didn't need ****. Maybe if pitch, fish oil. Yeah, a stilled out first baseman or outfielder makes a lot of sense. I gues you could draw pictures in the sand with cleats with that extra energy and nothing to do. You either got it or you ain't got it.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Baseball. Seriously. Played for years and didn't need ****. Maybe if pitch, fish oil. Yeah, a stilled out first baseman or outfielder makes a lot of sense. I gues you could draw pictures in the sand with cleats with that extra energy and nothing to do. You either got it or you ain't got it.

Haha I'm with you, bro. I did fine without anything all those years. Heck, I don't think we even touched soda or energy drinks before games. The closest thing we got to was Gatorade during the games.

I'd love to see some kids playing baseball that were all stimmed out; especially if it was little league. It would make the "hey batter batter!" chants even better. I say you just take a handful of 1,3 dmaa pills and enjoy the first 5 innings and crash hard for the last 2-4 (depending on how many you play).

 

[JN230]

well it isnt out yet but a new product from iforce is designed SPECIFICALLY for performance, focus and hydration, the best intra is yet to come. expect it soon!

 

[Clemenza]

MLB baseball players have been using GREENIES (AMPHETAMINES) before games since the 80's up until the recent drug testing.

Certain stims that won't make you jittery but will give you a clean focus and quick bursts of power/energy are fantastic for baseball players before a game. Is it moral/ethical to use crutch before a game? That's another issue.

But if he's asking for a pre game supplement to help him play better and increase eye hand coordination, then certain stims like 1,3 dmaa and a bit of caffeine will definitely improve his game.

I used to pop 2 AMP before big games in college before anyone even knew what 1,3 dmaa was and I'd have a hell of a game.

 

[D3Baseball]

I'd still hate to take a stim based product and be coming down off of it during the 7th to 9th inning. But that's just me im stim sensitive it would obviously have to be user dependent.

I don't know that I'd take the most stim loaded supp out there but especially something with a modest dose of caffeine (ala Focus XT, Fierce, etc.). Hell, even NeuroSurge would be good!

I would definitely recommend to anyone that they spend some time practicing with that supp protocol so they know what they're getting into. Supps are user dependent and baseball is a game of precision -- don't want things being off even just a little bit for the first time while you're in a game.

 

[VaughnTrue]

What was your purpose for automatically putting Ultra Reps vs Hemavol?
Did I mention Hemavol once in my post? No I didn't.



^Not true. There is log in progress on here as we speak where the user didn't give it a "10/10" for those stats on any one day of use. That is while even stacked with Hemavol.

Let's try to be a little fair here for the consumers.

mind = blown.


You say one thing...then do the exact opposite in the same post.


The reviews on Max Intense with or without HemaVol speak for themselves. Much easier to help promote product when people actually USE your product. Rough guys...I feel for you.

And while we're at it, let's do our homework here, folks. The amount of theobromine contained in Ultra Reps is very low dosed. At this dose, the intent and effect was NOT stimulatory. It does, however, enable the user to breathe deeper and easier, which would be a very good affect for anyone who is looking to increase their performance in athletics of any sort. In addition to this, the main focus of Ultra Reps is to provide the endurance and duration to continue without the painful burn. Just like Carnobolic before it, Ultra Reps greatly fights muscle fatigue, enabling a runner to run longer, a football player to go harder, etc..

Where I get confused with a Hemavol recommendation, as I would with any other supposed "extremely potent pump product" is the case where an athlete actually does get really "pumped" with use. I know that any time I have used a successful product of this sort, my muscles were engorged to the point where I was having difficulty getting a full range of motion. I'm not exactly sure why that would be so helpful in sports. If one is playing baseball, wouldn't a bicep pump inhibit the players ability to fully swing the bat, throwing their natural "aim" off a bit? Would a football player not be able to run quite as well? I see this product more in line for those who are at a gym doing a workout, not for someone in a sports setting. This is the sort of thing that you want in the gym in order to lift more, recover better, and grow. It's NOT what you want if you are looking to increase endurance and performance "on the field".

Happy medium: Use Hemavol or something similar in your training. For the purpose of this thread, use Ultra Reps pre-game.

Bolded points:

1. The fact of the matter is that it DOES include stimulants, which your rep just claimed it didn't. Regardless of the amount used, "Ultra Reps" contains stimulants...no matter how you slice it. Now, you say "there is very little" but lets think a ways back...YOU ALSO TOLD US SLIM XTREME WASN'T SPIKED WITH ILLEGAL DESIGNER STIMULANTS. Yea...you guys are someone I'm willing to trust with a prop blend LOL.

2. HemaVol contains Citrulline Malate a proven endurance aid. HemaVol contains proven N.O. precursors which can help flood a muscle with oxygen/nutrients thus enlonging exercise potential. Ultra reps contains Creatine monohydrate...no endurance boost...taurine...no endurance boost...and beta alanine...again NO endurance boost when simply taken pre-wo...IN A PROP BLEND.

HemaVol and Ultra Reps aren't even in the same league, and the fact that you attempt to put them in one just makes me laugh.

LOL

 

[VaughnTrue]

Here is some more cool info on why adding Citrulline Malate is beneficial, courtesy of Mr. Cooper69

Originally Posted by Mr.Cooper69

1. Citrulline malate enhances athletic anaerobic performance and relieves muscle soreness.

Pérez-Guisado J, Jakeman PM.


Source

Department of Medicine, University of Córdoba, Córdoba, Spain. [email protected]


Abstract

The purpose of the present study was to determine the effects of a single dose of citrulline malate (CM) on the performance of flat barbell bench presses as an anaerobic exercise and in terms of decreasing muscle soreness after exercise. Forty-one men performed 2 consecutive pectoral training session protocols (16 sets). The study was performed as a randomized, double-blind, 2-period crossover design. Eight grams of CM was used in 1 of the 2 training sessions, and a placebo was used in the other. The subjects' resistance was tested using the repetitions to fatigue test, at 80% of their predetermined 1 repetition maximum (RM), in the 8 sets of flat barbell bench presses during the pectoral training session (S1-4 and S1'-4'). The p-value was 0.05. The number of repetitions showed a significant increase from placebo treatment to CM treatment from the third set evaluated (p <0.0001). This increase was positively correlated with the number of sets, achieving 52.92% more repetitions and the 100% of response in the last set (S4'). A significant decrease of 40% in muscle soreness at 24 hours and 48 hours after the pectoral training session and a higher percentage response than 90% was achieved with CM supplementation. The only side effect reported was a feeling of stomach discomfort in 14.63% of the subjects. We conclude that the use of CM might be useful to increase athletic performance in high-intensity anaerobic exercises with short rest times and to relieve postexercise muscle soreness. Thus, athletes undergoing intensive preparation involving a high level of training or in competitive events might profit from CM.



2. Citrulline/malate promotes aerobic energy production in human exercising muscle.

Bendahan D, Mattei JP, Ghattas B, Confort-Gouny S, Le Guern ME, Cozzone PJ.


Source

Centre de Résonance Magnétique Biologique et Médicale, UMR CNRS 6612, Faculté de Médecine de la Timone, 27 Boulevard Jean Moulin, 13005 Marseille, France.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Previous studies have shown an antiasthenic effect of citrulline/malate (CM) but the mechanism of action at the muscular level remains unknown.

OBJECTIVE:

To investigate the effects of CM supplementation on muscle energetics.

METHODS:

Eighteen men complaining of fatigue but with no documented disease were included in the study. A rest-exercise (finger flexions)-recovery protocol was performed twice before (D-7 and D0), three times during (D3, D8, D15), and once after (D22) 15 days of oral supplementation with 6 g/day CM. Metabolism of the flexor digitorum superficialis was analysed by (31)P magnetic resonance spectroscopy at 4.7 T.

RESULTS:

Metabolic variables measured twice before CM ingestion showed no differences, indicating good reproducibility of measurements and no learning effect from repeating the exercise protocol. CM ingestion resulted in a significant reduction in the sensation of fatigue, a 34% increase in the rate of oxidative ATP production during exercise, and a 20% increase in the rate of phosphocreatine recovery after exercise, indicating a larger contribution of oxidative ATP synthesis to energy production. Considering subjects individually and variables characterising aerobic function, extrema were measured after either eight or 15 days of treatment, indicating chronological heterogeneity of treatment induced changes. One way analysis of variance confirmed improved aerobic function, which may be the result of an enhanced malate supply activating ATP production from the tricarboxylic acid cycle through anaplerotic reactions.

CONCLUSION:

The changes in muscle metabolism produced by CM treatment indicate that CM may promote aerobic energy production.



3. Citrulline malate supplementation increases muscle efficiency in rat skeletal muscle.

Giannesini B, Le Fur Y, Cozzone PJ, Verleye M, Le Guern ME, Bendahan D.


Source

Centre de Résonance Magnétique Biologique et Médicale, UMR CNRS 6612 Université de la Méditerranée, Faculté de Médecine de Marseille, 27 Boulevard Jean Moulin, 13385 Marseille Cedex 5, France. [email protected]

Abstract

Citrulline malate (CM; CAS 54940-97-5, Stimol®) is known to limit the deleterious effect of asthenic state on muscle function, but its effect under healthy condition remains poorly documented. The aim of this longitudinal double-blind study was to investigate the effect of oral ingestion of CM on muscle mechanical performance and bioenergetics in normal rat. Gastrocnemius muscle function was investigated strictly non-invasively using nuclear magnetic resonance techniques. A standardized rest-stimulation- (5.7 min of repeated isometric contractions electrically induced by transcutaneous stimulation at a frequency of 3.3 Hz) recovery-protocol was performed twice, i.e., before (t(0)-24 h) and after (t(0)+48 h) CM (3 g/kg/day) or vehicle treatment. CM supplementation did not affect PCr/ATP ratio, [PCr], [Pi], [ATP] and intracellular pH at rest. During the stimulation period, it lead to a 23% enhancement of specific force production that was associated to significant decrease in both PCr (28%) and oxidative (32%) costs of contraction, but had no effect on the time-courses of phosphorylated compounds and intracellular pH. Furthermore, both the rate of PCr resynthesis during the post-stimulation period (VPCr(rec)) and the oxidative ATP synthesis capacity (Q(max)) remained unaffected by CM treatment. These data demonstrate that CM supplementation under healthy condition has an ergogenic effect associated to an improvement of muscular contraction efficiency.


4. Effects of citrulline supplementation on fatigue and exercise performance in mice.

Takeda K, Machida M, Kohara A, Omi N, Takemasa T.


Source

Graduate School of Comprehensive Human Sciences, University of Tsukuba, Tsukuba, Japan.

Abstract

During high-intensity exercise, the concentration of ammonia is augmented in skeletal muscle. Ammonia activates phosphofructokinase and prevents oxidation of pyruvate to acetyl CoA, thus leading to exhaustion. Citrulline is an amino acid component of the urea cycle in the liver, along with ornithine and arginine. The aim of this study was to examine the effect of citrulline supplementation on fatigue and performance during high-intensity exercise. We constructed a swimming exercise protocol, in which mice were subjected to exhaustive swimming with a load of 5% body weight, and measured the time until exhaustion, the blood levels of lactate and ammonia, and the glycogen content of the gastrocnemius and biceps femoris muscles. Citrulline supplementation significantly increased the swimming time until exhaustion. Exercise-induced blood ammonia elevation was repressed by citrulline supplementation, and exercise-induced blood lactate increment in the citrulline-supplemented group was significantly lower than that in the non-supplemented group. Citrulline supplementation may facilitate the detoxification of ammonia via the urea cycle and inhibit additional glycolysis. Our findings suggest that citrulline supplementation may be useful for improving the exercise performance of athletes.



And finally, beyond performance enhancement and soreness reduction, CM's effects on nitric oxide production will certainly help in the bedroom:


5. Oral L-citrulline supplementation improves erection hardness in men with mild erectile dysfunction.

Cormio L, De Siati M, Lorusso F, Selvaggio O, Mirabella L, Sanguedolce F, Carrieri G.


Source

Department of Urology and Renal Transplantation, University of Foggia, Foggia, Italy. [email protected]

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

To test the efficacy and safety of oral L-citrulline supplementation in improving erection hardness in patients with mild erectile dysfunction (ED). L-arginine supplementation improves nitric oxide-mediated vasodilation and endothelial function; however, oral administration has been hampered by extensive presystemic metabolism. In contrast, L-citrulline escapes presystemic metabolism and is converted to L-arginine, thus setting the rationale for oral L-citrulline supplementation as a donor for the L-arginine/nitric oxide pathway of penile erection.

METHODS:

In the present single-blind study, men with mild ED (erection hardness score of 3) received a placebo for 1 month and L-citrulline, 1.5 g/d, for another month. The erection hardness score, number of intercourses per month, treatment satisfaction, and adverse events were recorded.

RESULTS:

A total of 24 patients, mean age 56.5 ± 9.8 years, were entered and concluded the study without adverse events. The improvement in the erection hardness score from 3 (mild ED) to 4 (normal erectile function) occurred in 2 (8.3%) of the 24 men when taking placebo and 12 (50%) of the 24 men when taking L-citrulline (P < .01). The mean number of intercourses per month increased from 1.37 ± 0.93 at baseline to 1.53 ± 1.00 at the end of the placebo phase (P = .57) and 2.3 ± 1.37 at the end of the treatment phase (P < .01). All patients reporting an erection hardness score improvement from 3 to 4 reported being very satisfied.

CONCLUSIONS:

Although less effective than phosphodiesterase type-5 enzyme inhibitors, at least in the short term, L-citrulline supplementation has been proved to be safe and psychologically well accepted by patients. Its role as an alternative treatment for mild to moderate ED, particularly in patients with a psychologically fear of phosphodiesterase type-5 enzyme inhibitors, deserves further research.


^I'd say that is rather relevant given the amount of people in the BBing community who have issues with their sex life and "getting it up."

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Guys...GUYS! Stop the arguing!
*Makes big ass bowl of popcorn*
OK...........continue.

 

[demolition]

Guys...GUYS! Stop the arguing!
*Makes big ass bowl of popcorn*
OK...........continue.

Got an extra seat?

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Got an extra seat?

There's room on my lap

 

[Clickster]

mind = blown.


You say one thing...then do the exact opposite in the same post.


The reviews on Max Intense with or without HemaVol speak for themselves. Much easier to help promote product when people actually USE your product. Rough guys...I feel for you.

You still never explained why you lied in your post.
Instead, you went back to your usual junior-high bashing of another company/product.

 

[VaughnTrue]

You still never explained why you lied in your post.
Instead, you went back to your usual junior-high bashing of another company/product.

I'm sorry if I've missed a 9/10 review here and there...LOL I'll gladly ammend that post to "every review has been 9/10-10/10" hahaha you feel better?


and then junior high bashing? What did I bash? I expressed the facts. There are stimulants in ultra reps formula. There is creatine, taurine, and beta alanine...all of which do nothing in an acute dosing setting...so they're useless before an athletic event.

Please show me where I was incorrect.


edit: Taurine can have acute dosing effects. I stand corrected. That being said, Taurine is $3.50/kg and can not be considered an "amazing" ingredient in this product.

 

[Clickster]

I'm sorry if I've missed a 9/10 review here and there...LOL I'll gladly ammend that post to "every review has been 9/10-10/10" hahaha you feel better?


and then junior high bashing? What did I bash? I expressed the facts. There are stimulants in ultra reps formula. There is creatine, taurine, and beta alanine...all of which do nothing in an acute dosing setting...so they're useless before an athletic event.

Please show me where I was incorrect.

"Much easier to help promote product when people actually USE your product. Rough guys...I feel for you."
^There is no other way to take that other than straight up bashing.


As for your first statement... there were some 7's and 8's in there too. Don't get caught doing it again.

 

[VaughnTrue]

"Much easier to help promote product when people actually USE your product. Rough guys...I feel for you."
^There is no other way to take that other than straight up bashing.


As for your first statement... there was some 7's and 8's in there too. Don't get caught doing it again.

Did I bash your product with that statement? No...I stated a fact. Its not very easy to get logs or people to promote your product for you when there are extremely few people actually using your product.

 

[T-AD]

The reviews on Max Intense with or without HemaVol speak for themselves. Much easier to help promote product when people actually USE your product. Rough guys...I feel for you.

In no way was I comparing the two. Perhaps you need to reread the posts that were made and actually the entire thread in order to understand what is being asked here. A gentleman is looking for a pre-game supplement for baseball. This is NOT a call out for AX nor iForce. This is a general help thread. Rather than walking in and dropping a name, I chose to explain to the OP and others why something might be beneficial. And you are incorrect in your assumption that Ultra Reps is a stim-based product. There are many components out there that will not induce a stimulatory feeling at a certain dose but will at others. Case in point here is the theobromine in Ultra Reps. The dosing is negligible at best, and only there in minute amounts to get the touch of one desired effect. The dosing is NOT enough to be a stimulant. Period. If you disagree, I'll be glad to find the information and a few others who would be willing to add to the non-stim effects of a minute amount of theobromine.

As for bringing up the past... Class act right there, Vaughn. Do I really need to tell folks about how you tried on numerous occasions to infiltrate the AX board to gain inside knowledge, even going to the point of approaching one of our contracted formulators for information? Does everyone really need to hear the long history that you have with many many many companies out here in forum land? I doubt it. Nobody wants to see what's behind the curtain. They just want the wizard to grant their wishes and go home.

You attack my post, and you attack Clickster's, and yet he STILL pointed out a flaw in your little "we get perfect scores" routine. Just because a few users give you anecdotal evidence that something you gave them for free is bro-awesome does not mean that it is actually as good as it is marketed to be. Check the logz, bro is NOT scientific evidence that a product is effective!! It's merely a set of opinions, and everyone has 'em...just like another body part which some forum users here can identify with more than others. But if you want some science and not some bro-science, what sort of novel ingredients are you bringing to the table these days? Hmm? In fact, how is it that you even survived after the big raid a few years ago? Everyone is familiar with the fact that iForce had MANY more items on that list of infractions than AX did. Difference is, AX took that slap and grew with it. We learned the lessons, and in the process of reformulating EVERYTHING - business model included - we came out with a way to do it all in a manner that is 100% compliant, no questions to be asked, not even refuted. The products that are produced now are not just a shuffle of old ingredients or taking something popular from a competitor and reworking it to suit your market needs. That's the way you play, not AX. And as for the whole "rep game", please...

Vaughn, we are all QUITE familiar with the way you operate on these boards. Jump in, say something big, and run away. Most times you don't even come back to a thread that you've done this in. Whether it be arrogance or just your pimp strategy, it's crappy customer service. We've seen your rep game and how you try to model your crew to push iForce. It's the same thing - jump in, downplay a product from a competitor with everything you can muster, including slanderous remarks, and then namedrop something from iForce and leave. Ya know what? In the long run, that doesn't work. You leave NO information for people about your products. You help extremely little when it comes to actual knowledge of said products or how to implement them. You offer nothing but petty little jabs and a canned list of quotes that serve your little purpose. Point is, your marketing strategy is transparent, wearing thin on people on every forum, and it sucks for the consumer. Push all you want... you are an antique.

I will put my reps against yours any day of the week. No, this isn't about selling any da*n products! I don't give a lick what AX sells. This forum and these people are here for HELP. They don't always want to be told a name just so that they have something to look at. They want to know information, what's best for them, and if a rep or forum user is good enough, they'll take it to the next level and help them personally with absolutely EVERYTHING that they need. You can cater your bro-science to all the newbies all you want. There's always going to be someone out there who is attracted to something just because the name is put in front of them with neon lights. We all start out innocent, inexperienced, and relatively ignorant of this world. But when people mature and actually want information and help beyond a name drop, where are you going to be? What exactly are you going to do? I know, how about we drop a product name!! Great idea - and here's a perfect example for everyone to read: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/198710-phenibut-s-effects.html

Cliffs, bra? Sure... Older gentleman with congestive heart failure is asking about the sides from Phenibut. And what is the help here?

True. I got nothing. Just buy iForce Hemavol. It will solve all your life problems. LOL!

Yeah... Let's just slap that there Hemavol name everywhere we can, shall we? Seriously, get a handle on it. I don't know if you are going for google hits or what, but that example is not only a retardation of the thread but BAD ADVISE TO SOMEONE WITH A SERIOUS HEART CONDITION.

Point of the matter is this. Push till you are blue in the face. It's fine. Sell a ton of products. I wish you well in doing so and hope that you get a nice kickback on all iForce forum sales. I'll be happy to sit back and watch all of the reviews come in and all of the excellent advice being given out. But soon enough, it'll be my turn to step in, and when I do, I and those like me will take it to the next level. We'll help that former iForce customer out with training advice, diet advice, and maybe even drop the name of a supplement or two if they are interested. It's about customer service and support, and that is what we do.

 

[T-AD]

Did I bash your product with that statement? No...I stated a fact. Its not very easy to get logs or people to promote your product for you when there are extremely few people actually using your product.

One man's view, based on one forum, based on a recent giveaway. Just because we don't require folks to log a product that we give them does not mean that they are not using it. Do I run logs? No. Do you? No. Sure there are going to be a ton of logs if you give away 50 bottles of Hemavol to be reviewed/logged - it's a requirement. But if AX gives away a few HUNDRED bottles out of good faith and less than 50 logs show up, that in no way means that the products were not used and enjoyed. In the end, it is those who have used the products who come to their defense and promote them, NOT the AX team. We don't need to brag. The products speak for themselves.

 

[VaughnTrue]

In no way was I comparing the two. Perhaps you need to reread the posts that were made and actually the entire thread in order to understand what is being asked here. A gentleman is looking for a pre-game supplement for baseball. This is NOT a call out for AX nor iForce. This is a general help thread. Rather than walking in and dropping a name, I chose to explain to the OP and others why something might be beneficial. And you are incorrect in your assumption that Ultra Reps is a stim-based product.

No...it contains theobromine which is a stim. This means the product contains stimulants. Is it a stim heavy product? Absolutely not, but the FACT here is that the product contains stimulants.

There are many components out there that will not induce a stimulatory feeling at a certain dose but will at others. Case in point here is the theobromine in Ultra Reps. The dosing is negligible at best, and only there in minute amounts to get the touch of one desired effect. The dosing is NOT enough to be a stimulant. Period. If you disagree, I'll be glad to find the information and a few others who would be willing to add to the non-stim effects of a minute amount of theobromine.

1mg of tribulus terrestris in a product makes that product contain tribulus terrestris. 1mg of theobromine makes that product contain a stimulant.

As for bringing up the past... Class act right there, Vaughn.

Again, this is a fact. You're sitting here telling us things as if we SHOULD trust you. Trust is built...and you guys just don't seem to understand that.

Do I really need to tell folks about how you tried on numerous occasions to infiltrate the AX board to gain inside knowledge, even going to the point of approaching one of our contracted formulators for information? Does everyone really need to hear the long history that you have with many many many companies out here in forum land? I doubt it. Nobody wants to see what's behind the curtain. They just want the wizard to grant their wishes and go home.

LOL this I would honestly love to hear. On the AX board? I think the last time I was there was when you guys were releasing 3-ad(aka 11oxo), and I was curious what you were releasing...because I wanted to buy some.

And approaching one of your formulators? LOL what? Please, do tell.


You attack my post, and you attack Clickster's, and yet he STILL pointed out a flaw in your little "we get perfect scores" routine. Just because a few users give you anecdotal evidence that something you gave them for free is bro-awesome does not mean that it is actually as good as it is marketed to be. Check the logz, bro is NOT scientific evidence that a product is effective!! It's merely a set of opinions, and everyone has 'em...just like another body part which some forum users here can identify with more than others. But if you want some science and not some bro-science, what sort of novel ingredients are you bringing to the table these days?

lets see, to date iForce has released these novel compounds:

1. dymethazine
2. protodrol
3. nmda/intimidate
4. 7-methoxy flavone

And we have another 2 novel ingredients being used in the new dexaprine(one of which will be in the upcoming Max Intense as well).



But yes, I do believe we fall short of designer stimulants. I'll leave that to "other" companies.

Hmm? In fact, how is it that you even survived after the big raid a few years ago? Everyone is familiar with the fact that iForce had MANY more items on that list of infractions than AX did. Difference is, AX took that slap and grew with it. We learned the lessons, and in the process of reformulating EVERYTHING - business model included - we came out with a way to do it all in a manner that is 100% compliant, no questions to be asked, not even refuted. The products that are produced now are not just a shuffle of old ingredients or taking something popular from a competitor and reworking it to suit your market needs. That's the way you play, not AX. And as for the whole "rep game", please...

So is that why iForce had a 125k fine from the FDA and AX had a 500k fine?

Also, take a look at our "offenses"...we put steronz in our steronz. Each of our labels stated EXACTLY what was in the product. What did you guys get in trouble for again?

Its funny...iForce is more than 2x as big now as we were when the raids happened, yet you're curious how we've survived? LOL iForce is more popular now than ever, and for good reason. We make damn effective products.

Vaughn, we are all QUITE familiar with the way you operate on these boards. Jump in, say something big, and run away. Most times you don't even come back to a thread that you've done this in. Whether it be arrogance or just your pimp strategy, it's crappy customer service. We've seen your rep game and how you try to model your crew to push iForce. It's the same thing - jump in, downplay a product from a competitor with everything you can muster, including slanderous remarks, and then namedrop something from iForce and leave. Ya know what? In the long run, that doesn't work. You leave NO information for people about your products. You help extremely little when it comes to actual knowledge of said products or how to implement them. You offer nothing but petty little jabs and a canned list of quotes that serve your little purpose. Point is, your marketing strategy is transparent, wearing thin on people on every forum, and it sucks for the consumer. Push all you want... you are an antique.

I don't understand...what would I run from?

If you think Ultra Reps is the end all be all, please post some science proving it. I'm more than happy to be educated, and admit I'm wrong.

I will put my reps against yours any day of the week. No, this isn't about selling any da*n products! I don't give a lick what AX sells. This forum and these people are here for HELP. They don't always want to be told a name just so that they have something to look at. They want to know information, what's best for them, and if a rep or forum user is good enough, they'll take it to the next level and help them personally with absolutely EVERYTHING that they need. You can cater your bro-science to all the newbies all you want. There's always going to be someone out there who is attracted to something just because the name is put in front of them with neon lights. We all start out innocent, inexperienced, and relatively ignorant of this world. But when people mature and actually want information and help beyond a name drop, where are you going to be? What exactly are you going to do? I know, how about we drop a product name!! Great idea - and here's a perfect example for everyone to read: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/198710-phenibut-s-effects.html

Cliffs, bra? Sure... Older gentleman with congestive heart failure is asking about the sides from Phenibut. And what is the help here?


Yeah... Let's just slap that there Hemavol name everywhere we can, shall we? Seriously, get a handle on it. I don't know if you are going for google hits or what, but that example is not only a retardation of the thread but BAD ADVISE TO SOMEONE WITH A SERIOUS HEART CONDITION.

You seemed to have missed my post in that thread

i agree that simply pushing the product in that way was not the best idea. Nik can get very excited at times which makes him a great guy, but information like this isn't the best to give out.

OP - as others have stated, get with a doctor. With a heart condition such as yours, I would use supplements EXTREMELY infrequently.

I stated publicly then that the way he answered that question was incorrect, and spoke to him about it. Not sure what else I can do...

wow strong 2 page rant. My thoughts in red for ya

 

[T-AD]

I could go back and forth for days with you and you know it. Tit for tat, push and shove. Instead, I'm taking the high road and backing out. This is NOT how I do business and is certainly NOT how I help people.



To the OP of this thread - don't buy anything from either Athletic Xtreme or iForce. If I were you, I'd go with something from PES, SNS, or another company. Perhaps look for a rep in this thread who was not involved in this latest politico war. In fact, I urge you to buy from them just based on the way their representatives have tried to assist you rather than point the fingers of blame.

To everyone else who has made valid suggestions in this thread, I apologize for my posts to Vaughn. I will not delete them, but I will exit this thread. I have other people to help today. If you need me, feel free to PM or email. Thanks.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I could go back and forth for days with you and you know it. Tit for tat, push and shove. Instead, I'm taking the high road and backing out. This is NOT how I do business and is certainly NOT how I help people.



To the OP of this thread - don't buy anything from either Athletic Xtreme or iForce. If I were you, I'd go with something from PES, SNS, or another company. Perhaps look for a rep in this thread who was not involved in this latest politico war. In fact, I urge you to buy from them just based on the way their representatives have tried to assist you rather than point the fingers of blame.

To everyone else who has made valid suggestions in this thread, I apologize for my posts to Vaughn. I will not delete them, but I will exit this thread. I have other people to help today. If you need me, feel free to PM or email. Thanks.

so after telling me im a bad person for supposedly doing this exact same thing(going into a thread, making a big stink, and then leaving), you're doing the exact same thing?

does not compute.

 

[southpaw23]

Did I bash your product with that statement? No...I stated a fact. Its not very easy to get logs or people to promote your product for you when there are extremely few people actually using your product.

Vaughn, can you clear your PM's. Been trying to PM you for awhile.

 

[southpaw23]

And on a side note if we're talking "specifically" about a PWO that is effective prior to athletic/sporting events...Craze all day everyday. I've used it in the past prior to sparring, basketball, 5k's, 8k's and fasted H.I.I.T runs. M-Intense is very good in that regard as well. However, I'd rank it right behind Craze for these type of events. In a gym setting (traditional lifiting), M-Intense is excellent.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Is there a sub forum here where guys can post questions and look for unbiased suggestions? There should be lol.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Vaughn, can you clear your PM's. Been trying to PM you for awhile.

Cleared

 

[D2footballjrc]

This wouldn't be pre supplement use persay but I'd think stuff like CoQ10, ALA, EPA, DHA, Niacin, Red Rice Yeast, Green Tea, B-vits, and etc would all be beneficial. Give you some cardio protection and allow you to play at your fullest.

Also all this stress in this topic isn't good for anyone's heart and hormones. We all just need to take a step back, deep breath, and continue on. End goals is the same for everyone here. To be the best they can be! The supplement industries and it's reps should be more like brothers than enemies on the battlefield. Sure we can have spats and break the couch wrestling but in the end we all have common goals and it's much easier to support each other. Just my 2 cents!

Just for the record, I've used both products and I like things about both of them. I think everyone should just mix ultra reps, hemavol, ultima, and toss in some more agmatine and walk around hulking it up. Maybe throw in some p-bol for fun. We can call it ultra-ulti-bol-hematine.

 

[southpaw23]

What he said...oh and Craze.

 

[D2footballjrc]

What he said...oh and Craze.

Okay then.. ultra-ulti-crazbol-hematine then ;-)