ALCAR/PLCAR/LCLT

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  1. ALCAR/PLCAR/LCLT


    So, you're supposed to take time off of LCLT from what I hear....is it mandatory to take time off from ALCAR? PLCAR? and "cycle" those as well? or are you supposed to use one form for several months, then another form for several months, and cycle them like that? since they are all different and have different effects, its a way to cycle them and cause confusion I suppose, but you'd lose that particular benefit specific to the version you are excluding. For instance you would want to take the LCLT with your prohormone/designer or natural test boosting cycles....then cycle off of it when you are not on these products. basically was wondering if using different versions of carnitine in cycles of months is a good idea, or if some forms are OK to take year round and some are best cycled...sort of confusing....


  2. Why do you need time off from LCLT? You should cycle everything, but I can't find a reason to stop taking one unless you fear pro-oxidation from some.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  3. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Why do you need time off from LCLT? You should cycle everything, but I can't find a reason to stop taking one unless you fear pro-oxidation from some.
    I never really thought of cycling the LCLT, but I know many guys on here suggest it....I supposed the reason was the same as most other things....if you take it too long the effects would attenuate and you would start losing the beneficial effects (but I don't actually know why they suggested to cycle it). So basically you can do the same as with vitamins and minerals and just take any carnitine 365?
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    I never really thought of cycling the LCLT, but I know many guys on here suggest it....I supposed the reason was the same as most other things....if you take it too long the effects would attenuate and you would start losing the beneficial effects (but I don't actually know why they suggested to cycle it). So basically you can do the same as with vitamins and minerals and just take any carnitine 365?
    No, I cycle EVERYTHING, but I just can't find a reason besides "the need to cycle everything" to actually cycle LCLT. Man try reading that 10x fast.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  5. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    No, I cycle EVERYTHING, but I just can't find a reason besides "the need to cycle everything" to actually cycle LCLT. Man try reading that 10x fast.
    one valid reason is that you save money not buying it? but yeah, I'll probably use the LCLT while on any cycle and in PCT, and take a short break from it during off time. probably the best way to work it. I gotta try that PLCAR next time I order as well.....ALCAR has always worked well for me but it seems to keep me up at night for some reason even if I take it first thing in the morning (but maybe its just in my head)

  6. Carnitines are very cool compounds. ALCAR/LCLT/Fumarate/PLCAR are all useful/unique.


    Iforce plans on getting into the carnitine game very big coming up soon

  7. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Carnitines are very cool compounds. ALCAR/LCLT/Fumarate/PLCAR are all useful/unique.


    Iforce plans on getting into the carnitine game very big coming up soon
    As a carnitine-fan-extraordinairre, I'm axcite
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  8. LOL. You guys are growing your supps range wild.

    Regards cycling LCLT - I'd think if something is in your food supply constantly anyway why to cycle it? It would be like "well I've been eating meat for 4 weeks lets go vegan for a week..."
    Correct me if I'm wrong
    Check out my current log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/195262-iforce-tropinol-testabolan.html

  9. Quote Originally Posted by UKNoko View Post
    LOL. You guys are growing your supps range wild.

    Regards cycling LCLT - I'd think if something is in your food supply constantly anyway why to cycle it? It would be like "well I've been eating meat for 4 weeks lets go vegan for a week..."
    Correct me if I'm wrong
    Everything is dose-dependent. You aren't getting 2g daily via diet.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  10. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    As a carnitine-fan-extraordinairre, I'm axcite

    Still waitin on dem nudz.

  11. I was interested in the PLCAR for the cardiac benefits I have heard about recently. Not sure how pronounced these effects are though.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    I was interested in the PLCAR for the cardiac benefits I have heard about recently. Not sure how pronounced these effects are though.
    It should, in theory, affect cardiac efficiency. But the positive effects on metabolism should theoretically apply to all tissues, hence its activity as an ergogen.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  13. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    I was interested in the PLCAR for the cardiac benefits I have heard about recently. Not sure how pronounced these effects are though.
    I absolutely love PLCAR. I've been running it for about 2 months now.

    Carnitines dont get the attention they deserve.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time
    antihero [@] SeriousNutritionSolutions.com

  14. I see SNS has PLCAR at NP (how about all those abbreviations ??) in 500mg caps. I assume 1000mg is the daily dosage?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Everything is dose-dependent. You aren't getting 2g daily via diet.
    Hmm, true, according to wiki 100g of beef steak has 95mg of L-carnitine... That would be at least 0.5g for me daily plus what gets synthesized from lysine and methonione (from meat and whey, I believe there should not be any carnitine in my whey powder) but I have no idea how to count the amount...
    Check out my current log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/195262-iforce-tropinol-testabolan.html

  16. Quote Originally Posted by UKNoko View Post
    Hmm, true, according to wiki 100g of beef stake has 95mg of L-carnitine... That would be at least 0.5g for me daily plus what gets synthesized from lysine and methonione (from meat and whey, I believe there should not be any carnitine in my whey powder) but I have no idea how to count the amount...
    Trust me, you're not getting 2g of LCLT a day. L-carnitine =/= LCLT. The research is all on 2g supplemental LCLT, meaning that it must be taken in addition to diet.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  17. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    I see SNS has PLCAR at NP (how about all those abbreviations ??) in 500mg caps. I assume 1000mg is the daily dosage?
    For what purpose? PLCAR has numerous functions: only carnitine to directly elevate muscle carnitine, cardiac benefits, energy production, combating fatigue, testosterone-like effects, etc
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  18. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    For what purpose? PLCAR has numerous functions: only carnitine to directly elevate muscle carnitine, cardiac benefits, energy production, combating fatigue, testosterone-like effects, etc
    I suppose "all of the above" since they all sound appetizing....but specifically cardiac benefit. like I said though, may as well take the dosage that will give all the benefits.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    I suppose "all of the above" since they all sound appetizing....but specifically cardiac benefit. like I said though, may as well take the dosage that will give all the benefits.
    1g for an extended period of time for cardiac/muscle carnitine. 2g daily for the rest
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  20. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    I see SNS has PLCAR at NP (how about all those abbreviations ??) in 500mg caps. I assume 1000mg is the daily dosage?
    I've been dosing at 2g/day.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time
    antihero [@] SeriousNutritionSolutions.com

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Trust me, you're not getting 2g of LCLT a day. L-carnitine =/= LCLT. The research is all on 2g supplemental LCLT, meaning that it must be taken in addition to diet.
    Sure, I don't. I'd have to eat like 4 big stakes daily for it I guess.
    I agree on that if I mega-dose something that's already in food in some form it might not be good idea in long term. I didn't realise what are the numbers.

    Doesn't LCLT dissociate in GI into L-carnitine and tartaric acid?
    Check out my current log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/195262-iforce-tropinol-testabolan.html

  22. yeah that could get expensive. I suppose you could vary the dosage, keep it at 1g at all times and bump up to 2g when you wanted the added effects. keep the cost down.....

  23. Quote Originally Posted by UKNoko View Post
    Sure, I don't. I'd have to eat like 4 big stakes daily for it I guess.
    I agree on that if I mega-dose something that's already in food in some form it might not be good idea in long term. I didn't realise what are the numbers.

    Doesn't LCLT dissociate in GI into L-carnitine and tartaric acid?
    Yes but it is not so simple. The tartrate moiety results in effects that are simply not seen via pure l-carnitine supplementation (i.e. lessening hypoxanthine accumulation + reducing formation of ROS). When in doubt, follow the data.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  24. Not to jump in here but can you tell me when is the ultimate time ,dose and frequency for LCLT? I bought the A-I sports 1000mg per 300grm jug..

  25. 1k per scoop ..300grm jar sorry

  26. Quote Originally Posted by WPD111 View Post
    Not to jump in here but can you tell me when is the ultimate time ,dose and frequency for LCLT? I bought the A-I sports 1000mg per 300grm jug..
    While there is a single study showing the efficacy of 1 gram, I would take 2g LCLT pre-workout. The ability to increase androgen receptor density is strictly dependent on preworkout dosing as it is a function of the cell-protective effects of LCLT. Pre-workout dosing will also manifest in reduced soreness and markers of oxidative stress. Finally, preworkout dosing allows to exploit the increase in VO2 max that has been demonstrated via study (albeit mildly).
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  27. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    yeah that could get expensive. I suppose you could vary the dosage, keep it at 1g at all times and bump up to 2g when you wanted the added effects. keep the cost down.....
    The cost isn't terrible, but it isn't cheap either. I consider it to be worth it.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time
    antihero [@] SeriousNutritionSolutions.com

  28. yeah I do 2g LCLT pre-WO with the other aminos I take. or 2g empty stomach in the morning on non-WO days. not so sure the non-WO day dosing is necessary, but its cheap when bought in bulk......as for the PLCAR I think maybe 1g daily dose, bumping to 2g daily dose during PCT and off-time (to bump test). Now that I recall, ALCAR was noted for raising test way back in the day when I used to take it....was never sure how much it raised test? but it did......

  29. Quote Originally Posted by antihero View Post
    The cost isn't terrible, but it isn't cheap either. I consider it to be worth it.
    yeah with the protocol I listed, the majority of the time will be "on-time" and a 1g dose....2g doses will be like 30% of the time i suppose....should last about 5 weeks a bottle on average...not bad....

  30. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    yeah I do 2g LCLT pre-WO with the other aminos I take. or 2g empty stomach in the morning on non-WO days. not so sure the non-WO day dosing is necessary, but its cheap when bought in bulk......as for the PLCAR I think maybe 1g daily dose, bumping to 2g daily dose during PCT and off-time (to bump test). Now that I recall, ALCAR was noted for raising test way back in the day when I used to take it....was never sure how much it raised test? but it did......
    PLCAR has testosterone-like effects, but that is a function of long-term use, and the effects are limited to libido and mood. It will not actually elevate testosterone levels. Same with ALCAR. Neither have ever raised testosterone in a study, but they provide effects comparable to testosterone as far as noticeable effects on the aforementioned aspects of life.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  31. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    PLCAR has testosterone-like effects, but that is a function of long-term use, and the effects are limited to libido and mood. It will not actually elevate testosterone levels. Same with ALCAR. Neither have ever raised testosterone in a study, but they provide effects comparable to testosterone as far as noticeable effects on the aforementioned aspects of life.
    OK so they never ACTUALLY raised test.....just seemed like they did. similar to tribulus I guess, they get a reputation for raising test even though it actually never happens.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by WARBIRDWS6 View Post
    OK so they never ACTUALLY raised test.....just seemed like they did. similar to tribulus I guess, they get a reputation for raising test even though it actually never happens.
    Correct. But obviously ALCAR/PLCAR are far superior to tribulus because their effects extend well beyond what you "feel."
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  33. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Yes but it is not so simple. The tartrate moiety results in effects that are simply not seen via pure l-carnitine supplementation (i.e. lessening hypoxanthine accumulation + reducing formation of ROS). When in doubt, follow the data.
    Thanks!
    Check out my current log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/195262-iforce-tropinol-testabolan.html

  34. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Carnitines are very cool compounds. ALCAR/LCLT/Fumarate/PLCAR are all useful/unique.


    Iforce plans on getting into the carnitine game very big coming up soon
    Fumerate is THE underappreciated form of Carnitine of the decade.

  35. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    PLCAR has testosterone-like effects, but that is a function of long-term use, and the effects are limited to libido and mood. It will not actually elevate testosterone levels. Same with ALCAR. Neither have ever raised testosterone in a study, but they provide effects comparable to testosterone as far as noticeable effects on the aforementioned aspects of life.
    Directly...no it doesn't. Directly isn't everything, though.

  36. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Fumerate is THE underappreciated form of Carnitine of the decade.
    I totally agree. I can't wait until I can reveal our upcoming formula that includes carns

  37. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    I totally agree. I can't wait until I can reveal our upcoming formula that includes carns
    So it;s a race then...so be it!

  38. It would be nice to see a capped mixture of several different forms of carnitine. I know there are some products out there already, one specifically with tabs (which I am not a fan of). Lately, I have begun to worry about the effects that so many acidic supplements can have on tooth enamel. Sounds like an odd worry, but it is one that I have run into and I do not drink soda or acidic beverages outside of water, milk, and various supplements.

  39. Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Fumerate is THE underappreciated form of Carnitine of the decade.
    I haven't looked much into fumarate besides the obvious. What stands out to you, besides the role in the TCA cycle/energy production?

    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Directly...no it doesn't. Directly isn't everything, though.
    Are you referring to ALCAR's ability to "optimize" T that has dropped in rats due to a negative stimulus?
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  40. I won't post publicly. Agree to a nondisclosure and I will share with you.
  

  
 

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