N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) Read before supplementing

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    One of the key things I found most interesting was this:

    "
    When I first started researching NMDA, I was considering marketing it as a nutritional supplement. After delving in deeper however, a couple of things made me change my mind. First of all, I contacted the patent inventor to see if I could get some more information on NMDA. He regretfully told me that his later research failed to confirm his earlier findings, and that he had deemed the project not worthy of further pursuit. I also discovered that NMDA is potentially quite toxic and may destroy neurons in sensitive areas of the brain like the hippocampus and the basal ganglia. NMDA might also have the capacity to induce convulsions in susceptible individuals.
    "


    but the whole piece is worth reading. Let me know what you guys think!
    Thank you for posting the link. I thought that perhaps by "started researching NMDA" that the person had performed experiments. I didn't realize it was literature research. With respect to PA, this is his opinion on what he has read which is why he is correct to say "potentially" and "might". Also, just because one researcher who was trying to patent NMDA had no luck in their experiments and gave up, does not mean that it does not work.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Mission1

    Don't worry. Just take it. Vaughn say it's allllll good. I think you are only born with one brain anyway. Well there's two but the little guy ain't so smart in some cases. Good luck.
    The little guy. Lmao most off the dumb **** I've done was cause of the little guy!!
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    I understand your concerns. Gains are not worth it when they come at the cost of our health!


    We tested this compound in dozens of people before bringing it to the market to ensure its safety. Just about every person who reads the science sees how this is non-toxic when taken orally, however I think this study may help people relax a bit(if they still believe it may be toxic):




    Ok...so do any of you take Creatine? Yes, I know you all do.

    Do any of you take Niacin? The vast majority of you do...and if not, you can get a great dose in MANY products out there, or even on its own.



    Basically here are the facts:

    #1 - NMDA can not cause excitotoxicity when given orally.
    #2 - NMDA excitotoxicity was proven to be basically non-existant in vivo by simply adding in creatine(at a 1% solution nontheless!) and niacin.


    so...Intimidate is 100% safe/healthy. If you're at ALL concerned about it, just make sure you're taking 1-5g of creatine, and a small dose of niacin each day and...BOOM!

    Dude, I really don't even wanna give you a hard time right now but I have to call out bad science when I see it. That's not what this board is about, go run that kinda game to the 14 year olds on bodybuilding.com

    First off, you're saying that NMDA isn't excitotoxic at all and you back that up with a study which measures the effect of creatine on NMDA INDUCED EXCITOTOXICTY. How ironic can you get? Unless you have documentation on their methodology showing that they directly injected the NMDA, this abstract is making a case against your argument, if anything.

    Second, you said excitotoxicity was "basically non-existant" with the coadministration of creatine and niacin. Here's the actual graph from your study showing the effects of creatine and niacin against the control on NMDA induced excitotoxicity http://ars.sciencedirect.com/content...020382-gr2.gif


    What does that reduction work out to? maybe 20-30% reduction vs control? Is that really your definition of "basically non-existant" bro?


    Listen kids, not everyone on these boards has the time to decipher medical journals, that's why they come here for advice. It ruins the whole principle of these boards when someone tries to throw studies around and totally twist them around because the lay-person cant understand them. Let me take all of the science mumbo jumbo out of the equation here and simplify the argument vaughn is trying to make right now...


    In a nutshell, his post is saying..."Our product isnt poisionous to your brain because there's a study that shows when you take creatine and niacin, it makes it less 30 percent less poisionous to your brain. My product is meant to be injested orally, while the abstract I provided doesn't specificy how it was given to the test subjects which makes it completely irrelevant, if not contrary to my argument altogether."

  4. Quote Originally Posted by magick69 View Post
    why stop using a proven product DAA for an unproven one (meaning there are NONE studies that have tested the toxicity and effectiveness in humans of NMDA)

    ?????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????

    i cannot believe why people do that

    Because a supplement company tells them they have a new form that is "better". Happens all the time. Look at creatine. Mono is fine and people still take the newer crap because they are fooled by the supplement company "gurus".

  5. Quote Originally Posted by J19891

    Dude, I really don't even wanna give you a hard time right now but I have to call out bad science when I see it. That's not what this board is about, go run that kinda game to the 14 year olds on bodybuilding.com

    First off, you're saying that NMDA isn't excitotoxic at all and you back that up with a study which measures the effect of creatine on NMDA INDUCED EXCITOTOXICTY. How ironic can you get? Unless you have documentation on their methodology showing that they directly injected the NMDA, this abstract is making a case against your argument, if anything.

    Second, you said excitotoxicity was "basically non-existant" with the coadministration of creatine and niacin. Here's the actual graph from your study showing the effects of creatine and niacin against the control on NMDA induced excitotoxicity http://ars.sciencedirect.com/content...020382-gr2.gif

    What does that reduction work out to? maybe 20-30% reduction vs control? Is that really your definition of "basically non-existant" bro?

    Listen kids, not everyone on these boards has the time to decipher medical journals, that's why they come here for advice. It ruins the whole principle of these boards when someone tries to throw studies around and totally twist them around because the lay-person cant understand them. Let me take all of the science mumbo jumbo out of the equation here and simply the argument vaughn is trying to make right now...

    In a nutshell, his post is saying..."Our product isnt poisionous to your brain because there's a study that shows when you take creatine and niacin, it makes it less 30 percent less poisionous to your brain. My product is meant to be injested orally, while the abstract I provided doesn't specificy how it was given to the test subjects which makes it completely irrelevant, if not contrary to my argument altogether."
    What degree does Vaughn have in nutritional science? I know... Nmda for dummies. He'll do anything to sell a bottles of intimidate or is called placebodate. Hey free bottles of air to first 50!!!!!! Sell sell sell.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    NMDA-induced neurotoxicity in a human model is very poorly understood, and you probably won't be seeing a safety study any time in the near future due to variation in human experience and the invasiveness of such an experiment. The in vitro data leads me to believe that toxicity won't be an issue at the doses being supplemented, but as a "safety net," you could always consider supplementing low-dosed Huperzine A or Agmatine.
    i love how people always skip over your posts, when you make a solid point
    Quote Originally Posted by J19891 View Post
    Dude, I really don't even wanna give you a hard time right now but I have to call out bad science when I see it. That's not what this board is about, go run that kinda game to the 14 year olds on bodybuilding.com
    lulz.....you're kidding right? out of all the boards i post on, this has got to be one of the WORST as far as "broscientists" and stuff like that goes.....some of the arguments that STILL take place on here about ingredients like arginine and glutamine prove this point over and over. yes, there are some pretty smart guys on this board, but they are outnumbered by broscience followers
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    out of all the boards i post on, this has got to be one of the WORST as far as "broscientists" and stuff like that goes.....some of the arguments that STILL take place on here about ingredients like arginine and glutamine prove this point over and over. yes, there are some pretty smart guys on this board, but they are outnumbered by broscience followers
    *counts to 10* I will not post, I will not post, I will not post *counts to 10 again*
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    i love how people always skip over your posts, when you make a solid point lulz.....you're kidding right? out of all the boards i post on, this has got to be one of the WORST as far as "broscientists" and stuff like that goes.....some of the arguments that STILL take place on here about ingredients like arginine and glutamine prove this point over and over. yes, there are some pretty smart guys on this board, but they are outnumbered by broscience followers
    lol idk about all that. Sure there are morons, but the world is full of those. Anyone who's spent a day in rush hour traffic or walked from one end of a wal-mart to another knows that. In my experience though, the posters on this board are more knowledgeable than average. I'll see stuff on bb.com sometimes like "Is creatine steroids?" that makes me drop face first into my keyboard. I just don't find that level of stupid 'round these here parts.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by J19891

    lol idk about all that. Sure there are morons, but the world is full of those. Anyone who's spent a day in rush hour traffic or walked from one end of a wal-mart to another knows that. In my experience though, the posters on this board are more knowledgeable than average. I'll see stuff on bb.com sometimes like "Is creatine steroids?" that makes me drop face first into my keyboard. I just don't find that level of stupid 'round these here parts.
    That's because some of these supplement company reps not gonna mention any names...... Vaughn......oops........feed on the innocent barely 18 and try to shrink their testicles to meet their criteria as a potential customer and try to suck them. We don't sell steroids anymore but try this it's a 100% better I guarantee it. Ugh I did read that it was better...... Maybe PA said so. Anyway ugh take this and then if you can't sleep take zma and then take it earlier in the day.... Ugh maybe now you can stack it with test v2. I promise.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    i love how people always skip over your posts, when you make a solid point lulz.....you're kidding right? out of all the boards i post on, this has got to be one of the WORST as far as "broscientists" and stuff like that goes.....some of the arguments that STILL take place on here about ingredients like arginine and glutamine prove this point over and over. yes, there are some pretty smart guys on this board, but they are outnumbered by broscience followers


    So true.
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    lulz.....you're kidding right? out of all the boards i post on, this has got to be one of the WORST as far as "broscientists" and stuff like that goes.....some of the arguments that STILL take place on here about ingredients like arginine and glutamine prove this point over and over. yes, there are some pretty smart guys on this board, but they are outnumbered by broscience followers
    Sorry... what did you say?

    I couldn't read past the stupid ass usage of the term lulz.
    The Historic PES Legend

  12. Quote Originally Posted by baldwanus View Post
    i love how people always skip over your posts, when you make a solid point lulz.....you're kidding right? out of all the boards i post on, this has got to be one of the WORST as far as "broscientists" and stuff like that goes.....some of the arguments that STILL take place on here about ingredients like arginine and glutamine prove this point over and over. yes, there are some pretty smart guys on this board, but they are outnumbered by broscience followers
    True. And this board a lot of times calls out those who are pushing the science with "I don't care what the science says" type responses. At the same time some of the most popular supplements on these boards have little to no scientific backing behind them (maybe a mouse study or something).

    Broscience is sadly kind on the vast majority of health and fitness boards.

  13. I hope I don't sound ignorant but oh well. Broscience is what I go by. Majority of the "supplements" we take is not going to have real scientific studies to back it up. Scientific studies don't mean much to me anyway, I'm not a scientist so I don't understand half the crap their talking about. Plus people can make a study say what they want it to based on agenda so what good are they? I want real life people "bros" telling me what they experienced taking a product. How it affected them, what sides, if it worked. Broscience is the tried and true method, thats real life scientific studies boys.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by rsnake21 View Post
    I hope I don't sound ignorant but oh well. Broscience is what I go by. Majority of the "supplements" we take is not going to have real scientific studies to back it up. Scientific studies don't mean much to me anyway, I'm not a scientist so I don't understand half the crap their talking about. Plus people can make a study say what they want it to based on agenda so what good are they? I want real life people "bros" telling me what they experienced taking a product. How it affected them, what sides, if it worked. Broscience is the tried and true method, thats real life scientific studies boys.
    I think you're referring to anecdotal evidence as broscience. Anecdotal evidence is the bottom line. If there are 50 studies outlining how a substance has x effect, but 100% of people say it doesn't, it's worthless.

    Broscience, on the other hand, is where people attempt to use science or scientific terms to make a statement, good or bad, about a product or substance but aren't applying the scientific method correctly.

    If everyone on these boards told you that d-alpha supplement of the week had no research to back it up, but I told you that it took my bench press up 20 lbs, that's anecdotal evidence, not broscience.

    If I tell you that creatine works by bumping up your testoserone levels with ammonia, quarks and quantum muscle fiber enhancers, that's bro science.

  15. The anecdotal stuff means little to me. Lots of people claiming to love things that did not produce a different result than could be explained by proper training/dieting. Not to mention a lot of people are straight up dishonest. I keep seeing bloods posted about a test booster from someone secretly on TRT -- wtf?

  16. it is a rather safe supplement, William Llewellyn and I have been looking into it for quite some time.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    *counts to 10* I will not post, I will not post, I will not post *counts to 10 again*
    Haha...I'm interested in your response.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by J19891 View Post
    I think you're referring to anecdotal evidence as broscience. Anecdotal evidence is the bottom line. If there are 50 studies outlining how a substance has x effect, but 100% of people say it doesn't, it's worthless.

    Broscience, on the other hand, is where people attempt to use science or scientific terms to make a statement, good or bad, about a product or substance but aren't applying the scientific method correctly.

    If everyone on these boards told you that d-alpha supplement of the week had no research to back it up, but I told you that it took my bench press up 20 lbs, that's anecdotal evidence, not broscience.

    If I tell you that creatine works by bumping up your testoserone levels with ammonia, quarks and quantum muscle fiber enhancers, that's bro science.
    well then "broscience" is a word being misused in 90% of the cases on here if what you say is true.....these guys use "broscience" to bash any anecdotal evidence OR misuse of science, so people need to start using the word appropriately if what you posted is to be valid. and trust me, they will continue to use broscience as an answer every time you try to challenge their new super duper scientific study with your anecdotal evidence. I'm with rsnake, I'll take "broscience" aka anecdotal evidence every time.....well depending on if the person is trying to sell me something versus just giving me random advice

  19. ok new to this forum but I've taken DAA for 30 days and now pretty close to completing first bottle of NMDA. So i read this thread and am still confused. is it safe, not safe, toxic, not toxic? am i just better off taking DAA ? I'll tell you where Im leaning after reading all this; back to DAA.

  20. This should be good. Something akin to a group of 9 year olds discussing the intricacies of quantum physics while hopped up on candy.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by patrick35 View Post
    ok new to this forum but I've taken DAA for 30 days and now pretty close to completing first bottle of NMDA. So i read this thread and am still confused. is it safe, not safe, toxic, not toxic? am i just better off taking DAA ? I'll tell you where Im leaning after reading all this; back to DAA.
    If you have tried both and one works better for you, I would go with that one
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  22. Intimidate SRT has gotten rave reviews from day one and will continue to do so! NMDA + a potent AI = win!
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  23. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    Intimidate SRT has gotten rave reviews from day one and will continue to do so! NMDA + a potent AI = win!
    How does that help him?
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by todd muelheim View Post
    This should be good. Something akin to a group of 9 year olds discussing the intricacies of quantum physics while hopped up on candy.
    Guffaw! Nearly did a spit take on the keyboard.

    I tend to side with Coop on this. You're not likely to achieve blood levels of DAA or NMDA that will be excitotoxic. Delving into anecdotal land, I think you'd crap yourself silly trying to mega dose DAA and if excitotoxic effects were happening, they would likely be evident with some sort of symptom...either physically expressed or a decline in mental function. DAA has been on the shelves for awhile now.

    I most certainly pay attention to the anecdotal since 99% of the supplements we use in this community are nowhere near what I would call "rigorously studied". We are simply too impatient to wait a lifetime until all the results are in..which is bad, but then the safety record of most supplements is pretty darn good.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    How does that help him?
    i wasn't responding to Patrick, which is why I didn't quote him. I was merely commenting on the effectiveness of NMDA, which is a large portion of what this thread is about.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Jordinator View Post
    One of the key things I found most interesting was this:

    "
    When I first started researching NMDA, I was considering marketing it as a nutritional supplement. After delving in deeper however, a couple of things made me change my mind. First of all, I contacted the patent inventor to see if I could get some more information on NMDA. He regretfully told me that his later research failed to confirm his earlier findings, and that he had deemed the project not worthy of further pursuit. I also discovered that NMDA is potentially quite toxic and may destroy neurons in sensitive areas of the brain like the hippocampus and the basal ganglia. NMDA might also have the capacity to induce convulsions in susceptible individuals.
    "


    but the whole piece is worth reading. Let me know what you guys think!
    I hear people talk about monosodium glutamate as an excitoxin too, yet people eat a chinabuffets and are fine

  27. tl;dr

    I will co-sign whatever the man with a PhD in neuroscience and is currently active in the field, says about it
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    tl;dr

    I will co-sign whatever the man with a PhD in neuroscience and is currently active in the field, says about it
    That man is pissed that this thread got pushed back into existence and wants to burn it with fire!!!
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    tl;dr

    I will co-sign whatever the man with a PhD in neuroscience and is currently active in the field, says about it
    lol, you took the words out of my mouth.

    Every time I see him post in a thread like this I have to click on it.
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    That man is pissed that this thread got pushed back into existence and wants to burn it with fire!!!
    Side note: I ordered some ammonium dichromate which I will be setting on fire. Are the fumes gonna kill me and those around me?
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    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  

  
 

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